Bandit Alley
MODEL SPECIFIC => SUZUKI BANDIT 250 & 400 => Topic started by: camarobandito on July 07, 2008, 12:47:07 PM
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I finally got my b400 finished I modified it to fit a rack of carbs off of a 94 gsx 600. Just wondering if anyone around here has done that. If not I could provide some pics and info on how to make the adapters/spacers.
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Cool knew it could be done pic's would be great for others to see
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I will get some pics posted within a day or 2 my camera isnt very cooperative. I made my spacers out of 1.5 in o.d. aluminum pipe and
1 5/8 i.d. type-a steel reinforced acol fuel hose. I cut the pipe into 4, 3 inch sections I put a slight angle on the outer pipes so they would space out evenly. I slid them into the intake boots, clamped them off, cut the fuel hose and slid them onto the pipe. I put the carbs up to the hose, slid them back and forth on the pipe to line up with the intake port of the carbs, then clamped them down. I put some K&N ovals on and a stage 3 kit then tuned it. I imagine it could be done with just about any set of carbs but i used ones off of a gsx 600. It has improved low end power dramatically. I didnt even have to use a different throttle cable! It took me awhile to figure it out but am more than satisfied with the results. I will post some pics as soon as i can.
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sounds real interesting... post up those pics!!
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I finally got my pictures up here is the address
http://s354.photobucket.com/albums/r405/camarobantana/
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WOW what a intake track length :motorsmile:
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Holy Hose-Clamps Batman!
The real question is: does it work? And if so, how well?
It looks to me like the outer carbs may interfere with your knees...
A
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Wow. Frankencarbs! That looks so mad max . . . I love it. :thumb:
G
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Thanks glad you guys like it! They do not interfere with my legs or riding position at all. Yes it does work, almost too well. It has put alot of low end grunt into it(so much that 1st is barely use-able and I have to be careful in 2nd because the back tire breaks loose) and is smooth all the way through the power-band with no flat spots. I thought it would at least be hard to start but I barely have to touch the button and its running! I dont know the exact science behind it but I believe it runs so well now is because the carbs are further from the heat allowing the fuel to be cooler, and it alters the mixture by creating a larger vortex, burning it more efficiently. I figured it works on tunnel ram intakes and carb spacers on cars why not motorcycles? One odd thing is that I actually was watching Mad Max when I thought of it :grin: I have put about 70 miles on it with no problems at all. I will keep all of you updated if I run into any problems. Thanks for the comments, interest, and for having such a great place dedicated to the Suzuki Bandit!
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They might work so well cause they're the same model carbs as the b4 used originally. The longer intake track will add to torque but lower top end power.
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so what *are* those carbs and what are the specs, roughly. How did you go about adjusting them, jetting/mixture etc wise?
I'm just rally curious is all... I don't envision doing this anytime... soon any way... :trustme:
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The gsx600 came with mikuni bst33's as standard which suprisingly enough so did the B4 in jap spec although in us spec came with bst32's but i think you may be able to take the spacers from the b4 carbs and make them fit on those and not need those lengths of pipe.
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Yes they are the bst33 mm carbs off of a 1994 gsx 600, also my bike is a Jap spec bike and came with the 33mm carbs. The pipes were needed because the gsx600 carb rack is about 2 inches longer(if i remember right)than the b4 carb rack. I needed the spacers for 2 reasons, 1. To spread out the area an extra couple of inches to they would match the intake boots to the carb inlet and 2. I needed to move them back in order to clear the frame under the gas tank. I am using a dynojet stage 1&3 kit for the gsx600 I think i put in the 110 main, I will check tomorrow, with the needle in the 2nd groove from top and 1 3/4 turns out on the idle mixture. I am also using the cr7ek plugs(1 step hotter than stock). It seems to be the best setup considering im using the K&N ovals and a Kerker exhaust. I have gotten several emails (didnt think this would get so much attention!) about the part # for the air filters. It is RU-2922 BUT they will not fit the B400 carbs they are for the GSX 600, they are too long. I did this because I noticed a hairline crack in one of the carb bodies and it would have spread and caused malfunction if I didnt replace it. I couldnt find another 33mm B4 rack suitable or even close to my price range. Honestly I thought of selling my bike or even parting it out (I got tired having to rev it so hard to get anywhere). This mod has changed the low end so much I can now do at 5000rpm what it took me to do before at 8000 or even 9000rpm and now I think I might hold on to it for another year or 2 or more :grin:
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thanks for all the details. very nice!
It's just a really nice mod, despite the frankenstein looks. And it looks to be reversible, which is *always* a plus!
I also like the sound of what it does to the power curve. It'd be cool to see a dyno run compared to stock.
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correct me if im wrong but you cant put the side airbox covers on now right?
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You are correct they wont fit, the filters are in the way. I suppose now would be a good time for a little update. I have put about 250 miles on since the swap with no problems whatsoever! I did throw on a set of accel coils and wire set (another noticeable difference in power!). I am averaging about 35mpg mostly riding in town and a few WOT runs every now and then! :yikes: I just made sure the clamps were still on tight yesterday and all is well with carbzilla! I forgot to mention in my previous posts that I am not using the vacuum for the petcock (10 years of motorcycling and that word still gives me the giggles! :rofl:) I am setting it to prime while riding. I will keep everyone posted with any developments!
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You are correct they wont fit, the filters are in the way. I suppose now would be a good time for a little update. I have put about 250 miles on since the swap with no problems whatsoever! I did throw on a set of accel coils and wire set (another noticeable difference in power!). I am averaging about 35mpg mostly riding in town and a few WOT runs every now and then! :yikes:
crap... you're getting the same mileage as me with 32mm but jetted carbs...
I just made sure the clamps were still on tight yesterday and all is well with carbzilla! I forgot to mention in my previous posts that I am not using the vacuum for the petcock (10 years of motorcycling and that word still gives me the giggles! :rofl:) I am setting it to prime while riding. I will keep everyone posted with any developments!
I hope you are turning it back to "on" or "reserve" when parked... otherwise the first bit of gunk in a float valve and you'll find your whole gas tank in a puddle under the bike... and in the cylinder...
otherwise... :congrats:
Now here's a question. What's to keep you from taking this bank of carbs and the old bank, a little parts swapping, and end up with a properly spaced set of carbs without the frankencarb mods? IOW, is it possible to take the 33mm carb bodies and the 32mm linkages and make up a new set that fits?
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You'd lose the bottom end grunt you've gained from the spacers if you made them fit properly.
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Aren't those hoses getting super-cooled? Are they built to take that?
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Andrew-That's 90 % in-town mileage. I have had the gas tank off for some repairs and adjustments so I lost some fuel there. I will spend more time on the highway and be a little nicer to it :grin: and maybe one of these days I will get around to balancing the carbs. Yes I am putting it back in the on position to shut it off (that doesnt make much sense) I am running 2 filters so gunk is no problem. To answer your question it is possible to change those linkages.....its also possible that when I leave today I will get raped by a gang of playboy models but its unlikely. I did try to go that route but the butterflies are attached to the linkages and those dont exactly fall out. I tried it on the old set and it was ruined in no time. The Katana carbs have a dual feed fuel inlet so you would have to get around that too. BTW whats wrong with my carbzilla look? :stickpoke:I think its cool (it does look much better in person than in the pics)
Banditmax- You are right on that one, at the very least this mod reduces alot of wear and tear on the engine. How are those new brakes working out?
Vidrazor- I dont understand what you mean by the hoses getting super-cooled could you please explain a little more?
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What part # are those Accel coils?
G
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Accel # 140403 universal super coil kit make sure its the 3 ohm kit
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Thanks. And you feel this made the B4 stronger? I'm interested because if it gives me .5 more hp from stock, I'm in. :motorsmile:
G
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Yes, made mine run more smoothly. I noticed a small difference in power im sure at least .5 hp probably more. I dont have access to a dyno. They are easy to install, accel guarantees the coils for life and they are cheaper than a new set of stock coils so I dont think you can go wrong.
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I just fitted some new coils from a 650 bandit they helped my bike a load. And my new breaks are nice. Although i did have to buy them on overdraft.
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camarobandito: I was just curious about the linkages... wondering whether there was some *other* problem that might have prevented that. I like the frankencarb look too, to be honest :thumb:
definitely would save on wear and tear on the old engine too. That's a nice bonus. It would be cool to see dyno runs comparing the before and after, but so it goes, right?
playboy models... mmmmm....
There's a bit in Monty Python's Meaning of Life where the accused gets to choose his method of dying and he elects to have a bunch of topless, red helmet wearing, women chase him off a cliff. Well, this summer, while on a fishing trip with some buddies back east, we decided to take a day to go white water rafting. The five of us, aged 38-42, ended up in a group with 45 13-14 y.o. girls in red hockey helmets.... Now, I'm not into the young girls, but the humor of the situation was almost too much to take. :rofl:
once again :congrats:
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There's a bit in Monty Python's Meaning of Life where the accused gets to choose his method of dying and he elects to have a bunch of topless, red helmet wearing, women chase him off a cliff. Well, this summer, while on a fishing trip with some buddies back east, we decided to take a day to go white water rafting. The five of us, aged 38-42, ended up in a group with 45 13-14 y.o. girls in red hockey helmets.... Now, I'm not into the young girls, but the humor of the situation was almost too much to take.
Love that scene and hysterical story!
So exactly WHERE were these young girls rafting???? KIDDING! LOL!
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lol i met plenty of young girls rafting in the french alps.
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Yes, made mine run more smoothly. I noticed a small difference in power im sure at least .5 hp probably more. I dont have access to a dyno. They are easy to install, accel guarantees the coils for life and they are cheaper than a new set of stock coils so I dont think you can go wrong.
Accel coils are nice but the wires are junk they crack and leak voltage due to heat cycles... I have run dyna , accel and no on to nology pro fire with the stupid high dollar grounding wires what a waste of money but sometimes you just cant tell yourself you dont need it... :banghead:
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No playboy bunnies gang raped me yesterday = ( maybe today...a guy can dream cant he? I did try to change the linkage but it was next to impossible. I cracked a case on the old carbs trying to remove the linkage and butterfly. The butterfly screws wouldnt come out so I drilled them and the butterfly wouldnt come out so I had to drive that out. About 5 minutes later I got on ebay and put up the parts I didnt destroy! I suppose its possible but I couldnt find a way.
gsxr400 racer-Thanks for reminding me about those wires. I forgot I bought a set for my 79 Z28 for the 383 stroker I put in. It had a miss while accelerating I couldnt figure out, it couldnt be those wires they are brand new.......after messing with spark plugs, distributor, and just about everything else. The wire for #8 was about 100,000 ohms the rest were about 6,000. Bought the cheap parts store brand wires and been running great ever since. Although my Accel distributor is probably the best one I have ever owned so I have pretty good faith in the coils. On another note I can tell you that those pro fire wires are not necessary and a waste of $$. The best plug wire ever made is that old packard 440 wire that stuff is bullet proof. Solid copper core with no shielding. I know a place you can get a 25 ft roll for about 40 bucks with boots and wire ends. I dont know if our resistor plugs are enough to suppress the radio noise or if shielding would be required. I was going to try it sometime but if someone knows what would be required to suppress the radio noise chime in at any time.
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>>Vidrazor- I dont understand what you mean by the hoses getting super-cooled could you please explain a little more?<<
Well, I'm sure I have it all wrong, but I remember scuba diving once when we had a free-flow hose, rapidly dumping air out of the tank. Within minutes the first stage was coated in ice (in 90-degree summer weather) from the heat dissipation of the airflow supercooling. Had we not been able to stop it the first stage would probably have been locked frozen.
A similar continuous airflow occurs at the carbs, assisted by fluid flow no less from the gasoline vapor. Normally the carbs are up against the manifold, right? Here the air/fluid flow is passing rubber hoses. On a continuous run like highway driving, there's a constant flow of air/fluid going through there.
I suppose for whatever reason it's not an issue, but that's where I'm coming from with that question.
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Vizrador theres very little pressure change in the carb situation meaning super cooling as your saying will not occur.
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If your bike originally had the 33 mm carbs as my bike has why couldnt you just put the new ones on the old rack? In fact why even swap them as they are the exact same carbs? Unless your old ones were knackered.
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Read the whole post buddy.
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500 mile update-No issues whatsoever. Took it on a couple 80 mile trips with no problem. I did do some fine tuning and my mpg went up to 40-45 from previously 35. I did however leave the choke on a little too long and had a backfire through the intake. It shot the vacuum caps off like a rocket! That was enough to wake me up. Seems to be holding up well, only problem was that backfire and that was my fault. I will update again in another few hundred miles.
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anymore updates? i plan on doing this myself soon as well. I just got the gsx600 carb . But I will probably go with factory pro kit, KN Ovals and add a slipon exhaust to it. Thanks for the Inspiration!
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Hi doqq,
I would'nt want to step on an idea but as Bandimax said the carb bodys are the same as standard and as camarobandito said he had an airline fracture in the stock carbs. From this you could take it that the reason the bike ran better than before is most probs due to the good set of carbs vers the bad old set. The longer inlet track may or maynot help low down and the wider set allow for easier fitment of cone filters but a known good stock set maybe better still, only back to back tests would prove this. If you would like to run cone type filters take alook at the link below.
http://www.400greybike.info/newforum/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=6892
The gk73 uses the same carbs as the B4 so this is a possible way to go.
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Hello again everyone! Looks like the board woke up a little bit so I thought I would do a little update. Put about 2800 miles on it since the swap with only 1 small prob. I had a vacuum leak, wouldn't idle for anything. I took it apart and used a little JB weld around the pipes where the hoses slip on and all is well. Put 500 miles on since. Still not the prettiest but runs like a top!
As for the previous post by Chris H, I agree that some more testing needs to be done to see how much, if any gain has happened. The old carbs were not in that bad of shape, yes it had the crack but it wasnt leaking anything (yet) but would have gotten worse over time. As far as the condition of the old carbs, I was working on it that winter I accidentally left the petcock on prime and it never leaked a drop. It was like that for about 2 weeks until it warmed up outside. I notice just a small difference, I can break my back tire loose at 15 - 20 mph on dry pavement with little effort and I could not do that before.
Good luck with all of you that try it. It was a fun project to do so and much better (and cheaper) than trying to track down a couple new carb bodies or even a whole new rack. Low mileage gsx600 carbs are very plentiful b4 carbs are not.
I will post anything if it comes up, as for now I am declaring it a success. Thanks for the interest and let me know if there is anything I can help with.