ninja 650 vs. bandit 400?

[Mick77]

Ok, this may have come up somewhere else already, but a fellow I know has a new Ninja 650, you know, the twin cly type.  He was telling a buddy of mine that he "would smoke the crap outta that little 400".. Now, I'm a good rider, I'm a fast rider, but I'm a safe rider; meaning I wouldn't go out and race this guy on the street... which is why I'm asking here, for my own peace of mind.  I just gotta know--- will a bandit 400 (running as good as it will) beat a ninja 650?  Or is it just a pipe dream, with the way bikes have advanced over the years.  I've ridden one at slow speeds (parking lot test ride ) and know that they pack a little punch off the line in the lower gears, but have no idea what it will do farther up the revs.  Can someone shed some light on this for me?  I have no intention of bringing the topic up with this guy, I just have to know for myself either way, ya know? 

[Demilus]

650 makes a claimed 71 hp.
Weighs a claimed 383 pounds dry.
400 makes about 60-65 hp depending on tuning, exhaust, etc.
Weighs about 378 pounds dry.

Now those are just some specs to think about, but at this point, it mostly comes down to the rider.  The only other thing I'd think about that would go to his benefit is the low end of his engine.  The lil' bandito can be a bit peaky and makes most of its power up top.

Depending on how long and how good of a rider he is, I think you could take him, but it's really anybody's race.

I vote FZ6.... 110 dynoed hp 

[diesel]

Depends on the road and the riders. I don't think there's enough difference between the two bikes that one will always beat the other. A spirited 400/4 will keep up with many a big bike, so long as it doesn't come down to straight line racing.

[Garyola]

650 makes a claimed 71 hp.
Weighs a claimed 383 pounds dry.
400 makes about 60-65 hp depending on tuning, exhaust, etc.
Weighs about 378 pounds dry.

Now those are just some specs to think about, but at this point, it mostly comes down to the rider.  The only other thing I'd think about that would go to his benefit is the low end of his engine.  The lil' bandito can be a bit peaky and makes most of its power up top.

Depending on how long and how good of a rider he is, I think you could take him, but it's really anybody's race.

I vote FZ6.... 110 dynoed hp 

NO comparison. The 650 will eat the B400 for lunch. There is a guy that races a 650 in a series I race in. He goes out in middle weight class against older 600s and svs and kicks their butt. Oh and the 650 is stock. Don't under estimate that 650. It has lots of torque. We have an sv 650 race class here and the Ninja is not allowed in by Suzuki. I wonder why?
The 400 does not make 60-65 hp unless you want to spend thousands on it and then maybe just maybe you will get 65 hp. The average 400 has about 50 -55 hp. Mine dynos at 61-63 and it has taken a lot of work to make that happen. Horse power does not grow on trees. To get my b4 to 65+ hp would mean spending about 3 grand on the heads and the gain is just not worth the money.


G

[tomacGTi]

As much as I love my little B4, even DRZs on the track will run around it.

Sub 400lbs and in proper trim has about 40hp. You may get it on the straight but in the corners with a good pilot you're going to have a battle on your hands. Those thumpers launch out of the corners. Evil little backroad weapons they are.

That parallel twin is no joke and in capable hands, it would be a bloodbath. If the SV gets run around by them and the SV gives a B4 fits, well the outcome is predictable.

[diesel]

Sub 400lbs and in proper trim has about 40hp.

40hp? What bike are you on about?

[tomacGTi]

DR-Z400SM (K7) AT A GLANCE
Suggested Retail: $6,199
Engine Type: Four-stroke, DOHC,single-cylinder, liquid-cooled.
Bore and Stroke: 90.0mm x 62.6mm
Front Brake: Single Hydraulic Disc
Rear Brake: Single Hydraulic Disc
Wheelbase: 57.5 inches (1460 mm)
Dry Weight: 295 lbs. (134 kg)


Whoops, sub 300lbs.

[diesel]

Whoops, sub 300lbs.

That's what had me confused.

[mademiriam]

this is just my 2 cents, but in my experience on a 'track' especially one that is tight and technical I find the bike is secondary to the riders ability. Within limits of course, the 650 has some great power advantages so you'd have to make up for those on the 400.
That said an R1 has great advantages over a B12 but given the right conditions (no long straight) it's a fun contest.

[Demilus]

http://www.banditalley.net/wiki/doku.php?id=gsf400

Garyola,
It says in there that "In 1992, the Japanese manufacturers and government got together and decided 400 class bikes should not exceed 53 horsepower, so models produced after September, 1992 (probably classed as 1993 models) were detuned to meet this requirement."
It also says that the japanese version made 59 hp.  I figured with an aftermarket exhaust, high flow filter, and some tuning it could produce around 60-65 hp, mainly low 60's.
That is just where I got my information.  I don't pretend to be an expert, just tryin' to contribute 

[Geoffwhite18]

one of my ridding buddies has a ninja 650. after about 100mph we are dead even. Up to 100 mph he rapes the 600 bandit. They have way more torque down low!

[digitaldan]

The Bandit is about 18 years older and has poor ground clearance, handling imho.

[gsxr400 racer]

Id smoke the shit out of one...especially stock one what i have problems with is sv's making 75+ HP and 465-560 fzr's and an occasional RVF 400 that is supposed to be stock but smokes and i dont believe its all rider he is good but come on I'm no slouch...

mine is sub 320 lbs wet.

[bngboyd]

NO comparison. The 650 will eat the B400 for lunch. There is a guy that races a 650 in a series I race in. He goes out in middle weight class against older 600s and svs and kicks their butt. Oh and the 650 is stock. Don't under estimate that 650. It has lots of torque. We have an sv 650 race class here and the Ninja is not allowed in by Suzuki. I wonder why?
The 400 does not make 60-65 hp unless you want to spend thousands on it and then maybe just maybe you will get 65 hp. The average 400 has about 50 -55 hp. Mine dynos at 61-63 and it has taken a lot of work to make that happen. Horse power does not grow on trees. To get my b4 to 65+ hp would mean spending about 3 grand on the heads and the gain is just not worth the money.


G

I am no racing expert for sure but I bet Garyola is spot on. Riders and road conditions would make a big diff but lets say it is the same driver on the same road with stock bikes......
Ninja 650 all the way. Yes, I believe the Ninja is faster however IMO the Bandit is a better bike. Unless you are on the track, faster is not always better. 

[gsxr400 racer]

Unless you are on the track, faster is not always better. 

Word!!