Bandit Alley
MODEL SPECIFIC => SUZUKI BANDIT 250 & 400 => Topic started by: 400banditman on May 09, 2011, 06:10:00 PM
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Hello all!! :grin:
My first and not last post to this forum....
I have a 92 GSF400. I was riding it home one day, just sitting alongside the road, engine running fine, waiting for my friend in his cager to catch up. Then the bike just shut down, as if I flipped the kill switch. No gasping for air or fuel, sputtering, nothing. Just out cold and quick.
Turned the iginition on and tried to start it. No starter. Nothing. Lights, horn, signals, all fine.... :banghead:
Then some other riders pulled over to help. They pushed me down a hill and I tried to pop start it in 3rd gear. Nothing. Just slowed down to a stop.
Couldnt be my starter, that wouldnt have killed the motor like that, while running.
Cant be the battery, lights and such work fine.
Which leads me to believe its like a coil pack, regulator/rectifer...something to that nature.
Any ideas where I should start? Please help!! and btw, just moved to Danbury CT and have no internet yet...only at work. So all responses will be tommorrow...Thanks!!
And I LOVE my GSF400...dont want to get rid of it!! Put ALOT of work/money into it already...got pics of it in Daytona FL bike week too! Great friggin time there! an guess what, it ran FINE!! :banghead:
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Sounds like it could be in infamous evil CDI problem.
Do some research on it in here, it's a very common problem but can be fixed if you know how to use a solder iron and know where your local Radio Shack is at.
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>>> No Starter <<< If it's the igniter (called CDI by some) it shouldn't affect the starter. Did you check your fuses? If the lights et al work ok but there's no starter then I suspect electrical. See if a fuse is blown. If not, try cranking the starter by shorting across the starter solenoid with something (wear insulating gloves !!!) to see if it cranks. If it does crank and you have a blown fuse try replacing the fuse. If it blows right away you may have a short somewhere.
I was hundreds of miles from home last year when my B400 was dead after stopping for gas. After close to 4 hours in a gas station parking lot on a 105 degree F afternoon I tracked down a short in the connector from the regulator/rectifier. Cut the connector off, twisted the wires together and got home.
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Ooops you're right, didn't see that...
Check your main fuse as well. If that blew due to a spike in the system it wouldn't let the starter spin either.
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Also download the manual and check the safety switches.
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Thanks for all the response guys!!
CDI huh? ....was suspecting something eletrical. And maybe a fuse? They say always replace the cheap stuff first!
For what its worth, I had just replaced the valve cover gasket...and ran into a problem with the gas tank squishing the throttle cable....once it started it would scream like a banshee, pinched in WOT.
What else did I screw with....oh yeah the kill switch/STARTER housing on the handle bar...got a little twisted around.
But ok, thanks for the input guys!
BTW I already got the manual...I should start pawing through it :duh:
I will reply at lunch EST time....
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"What else did I screw with....oh yeah the kill switch/STARTER housing on the handle bar."
Should have been the first thing to check.
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I beg to differ, if that was the case, it wouldnt have started in the first place...must be a fuse or blown CDI...guess i should delve into that more...
thanks for the advice guys, keep it up, an i'll keep everbody posted :thumb:
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I dont think it will be the ignition box, could be a fuse, safety switch or relay. You could check if you have 12v at the coils.
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I sure hope not, there friggin $600!!! :yikes:
I need to get my hands on a ohm/volt meter...check the fuses...thanks again for the help, the nice weather only aggrivates my sitituation...
I will update again tommorrow morning
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I beg to differ, if that was the case, it wouldnt have started in the first place...must be a fuse or blown CDI...guess i should delve into that more...
thanks for the advice guys, keep it up, an i'll keep everbody posted :thumb:
I was meaning that since you had worked on this it may have come loose while on the road. A problem in the run and start switches could do exactly what you describe the problem is. A blown "CDI" will not affect the starter. (It's not actually CDI).
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Two similar threads that might help you out.
http://forums.banditalley.net/index.php?topic=2305.0
http://forums.banditalley.net/index.php?topic=6388.0
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Hey you guys are awesome!
Was out sick yesterday, so I couldnt respond.
Well, I got a multimeter, all ready to do some major electrical work. I began by checking the fueses...low and behold the second one I pulled, the ignition fuse, was blown. I replaced it with a new one and she fired right up!
Thanks for all the help and advice! :clap:
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The "blown" fuse is not the problem. You may want to look into what caused the fuse to "blow". A short to ground perhaps?
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I was thinking the same thing...why?
Anybody have any ideas? What would cause a 'short to ground', and how could I fix it?
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Since the fuse did not immediately blow again the short is not constant. It could be inside a component like the starter or igniter, or a loose wire, a loose or corroded connector or the insulation in a wire is worn thru somewhere. It could be intermittent and only short occasionally when you hit a bump or dip. First thing to check is any connections or switches that were recently installed or worked on (ie: Run & Start switches). Then carefully inspect all the connectors then wires for wear or corrosion.
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Canyon breeze, thats awesome advice! Totally true too cause i slightly pinched the throttle cable it made the engine scream...I love to hear all the possibilities!
Now consider this. The bike quit on me again while riding, just after accelerating. I pulled over and checked, the same fuse was blown. Called triple A. the guy came out and said, i used to be a mc mechanic. (yeah, right im thinkin) he says put in this 15 amp fuse, instead of the stock 10 amp. fires right up first start.....wtf? and this indian guy at the liquer store told me in his country the used to take ciggerette foil and wrap the fuse leads, jumpering the fuse.
Since I care about my bike...I assume a 15 amp fuse would eventually fry the CDI...or coil pack or whatever...thus making canyon's advice that much more true...
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It blew as you accelerated you say? Could be intermittent in the stator, regulator or igniter as all those are affected by acceleration. Also inspect the area around the throttle linkage near the carburetors etc. to see if there are any worn wires that may be shorting by a throttle pull.
Obviously it's something/somewhere in the circuit of the fuse that is blowing so things on the other circuits can be eliminated. Putting in a 15 amp fuse is probably ok for a while. If that never blows then it's not a short just something drawing a bit more than 10 amps but less than 15. The only thing on the bike that I can think of that would normally draw that much current would be the starter.
Good luck!
--- John
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Yeah, cut right out beore i could even get out of first gear.
And the other thing I left out is that the second time it blew, last night, i immedialty replaced it with another new 10 amp fuse. it wouldnt start, so i thought i was in serious trouble. thats when the guy suggested to use the 15 amp...
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If it's doing that, it's definitely your regulator/rectifier. (Both are one unit on almost every bike.)
Fortunately for you I just happen to have one for sale! lol
PM me if you're interested.
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Rectifier/Regulator is more likely to blow the main 25A fuse unless the bike has been rewired.
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Troubleshoot the reg/rec...gotcha.
Thanks guys! I'll keep everybody posted as to whatever happens on Monday, if not before...still no internet...gotta go to the hotties' downstairs computer and ask to barrow it...which aint all that bad, in retrospect, LOL
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How are you making out with this?
There are tests for the RR on both the electrosport charging fault finding flowchart in my sig (I typically like this test better, because I find it faster, and I don't have to have any of suzuki's tools for it), and in the Service Manual. (You have downloaded that, right? Take a copy home on CD or thumbdrive if you have to) Go to the downloads section for that, and shoot me a PM if you have any trouble downloading it, some people have had trouble with the larger downloads.
I agree, based on my experience (see link #2 in my post above) the RR will pop the main, and not even let you get to the "ignition" point.
Likewise, there are tests for most of the ignition system in the Service Manual.
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Hey! thanks for checkin up on me...
I unfortunatly havent gotten a chance to check things in depth yet. The 15 amp solution still has me scratching my head...but I am equipped with a multimeter and a pdf manual...even a laptop so I can actually look at it while I work! ...in reality I gotta get my lazy butt to the garage, pull off the tank and 'get er' done', as they say.
And the weather has been so sh1tty here its just disgusting...
Either way I'll get to it sooner than later, and follow up with what I find.
:thanks:
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So im still lazy.
And figuring the 15 amp fuse solved my problem, I decided to ride it work today...first sunshine in weeks here. And the same thing happened. Except this time I made it home, and shut er off. Then I eat and try to leave, and it wont start. Same fuse, this time a 15 amp one, blown...
Really how hard is it to trace shorts? I opened up the headlight once...WHOA is that a tangled mess.
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Im just gonna throw out my two sense. What is the little number on the fuse block next to the fuse. #3 is the ignition/fan fuse according the the wiring diagram I'm looking at. I'm wondering if the the fuse is blowing when the fan kicks on? High resistance in the fan motor could be causing it to pull too many amps blowing the fuse. That's just my WAG.
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Really how hard is it to trace shorts? I opened up the headlight once...WHOA is that a tangled mess.
Depends on where the short is. :grin: If you can luck out, like I did, it will be somewhere external and intuitive. If you're not so lucky,.. it could be hidden somewhere hard to see, and not so intuitive...
get the wiring diagram out, see what's attached to that fuse specifically, and start troubleshooting at those components and the wiring attached to them.
I don't -think- you'll need to go back into the headlight rats nest. I hope.
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So an update:
I broke down and took it to a stealership. They sat on it for 2 agonizing weeks, then started riding it to 'replicate' the problem. Told them it was futile, why the F$@K arent you runnning down the schematic and testing things...long story short, they did nothing but charge me 50 bucks to tell me its fine, and they coulnt find the problem...
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If you were in San Diego I'd help track that short down, and I only charge Tequila shots. :bandit:
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hahaha nice! I was just drowning my frusteration last night with margaritas...
So yeah. And in respose to Rejektid, no, the fan comes on fine and nothing happens...its seemingly totally random. Maybe I should splice a fuse into each wire everywhere and see what pops? I mean, being so intermittent like that leaves...not much else...but :banghead:
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...its seemingly totally random. Maybe I should splice a fuse into each wire everywhere and see what pops? I mean, being so intermittent like that leaves...not much else...but :banghead:
That would be so invasive though. You'd be more likely to introduce issues with all of the wiring disturbances.
So an update:
I broke down and took it to a stealership. They sat on it for 2 agonizing weeks, then started riding it to 'replicate' the problem. Told them it was futile, why the F$@K arent you runnning down the schematic and testing things...long story short, they did nothing but charge me 50 bucks to tell me its fine, and they coulnt find the problem...
Unfortunately, as in all professions, some mechanics are better than others. Sounds like you encountered the second type.
A lot of mechanics don't like to work on older bikes, and they will almost all complain about having to troubleshoot electrical problems.
For instance, I just picked up a "day job" at a local stealership, as the Accessories manager. You'd think that someone would have been able to tell a guy how to remove the passenger seat from his mid-80's shadow before he got to me,.. especially since he had already asked in service. In the end, I showed him how to remove it. The young farts in service couldn't figure it out.
Do keep in mind too, that not everyone in service is a journeyman mechanic....
We'll take a look through the wiring diagram this evening, or tomorrow night to see if we can try to point you in the right direction, but right now, look at the connections that you share with the fan motor, sidestand relay, ignition switch and ignition relay. It looks like all of these will share that 10A fuse.
Where are you located btw?
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Hey!
Thanks so much for your help!
Yeah, some mechanics are dicks, gotcha, LOL. I had this guy in Quakertown PA that specialized in older, vintage bikes...he was great.
My current location is Danbury CT, but only for a few more days. Just got laid off again and have to move back into dodge.
Thanks for the starting points too...
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Hey guys just a follow up...
After opening up the rats nest in the headlight, pulling everything out and inspecting/re-taping it all, I figured out my electrical problem. Underneath the tank, the fan motor wasnt connected into the series circuit of the fan therm switch. It was just orange green to orange green. So whenever it heated up enough, the fan would try to kick on, and blow the ignition fuse with the unloaded current rise. Broke the circuit, conected orange green to black, black to orange green and no more stalls!
Like, DUH! unconnected fan motor? Wish I had realized the fan not kicking on before, that would have sped things up a little bit, LOL.
And those damn fools at the MC dealership should be drug out in the street an shot :annoy: for their ignorance...maybe thats a little extreme, but c'mon, LOL. unplugged wires? Kinda feel stupid after it all, but I learned a hell of alot! Thanks to everyone for their help and advise!!
Cheers to bandit alley! :thanks:
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You didn't have overheating problems without the fan coming on?
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glad to hear you got it sorted :congrats:
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Cayon Breeze:
No overheating problems...when the bike tried to kick on the fan, it would overload the circuit and blow the ignition fuse...once cooled down, it would restart and not blow a fuse. I went through about ...twenty fuses before i figured it out LOL.
Anyhow...new issue. see new post... :beers:
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So when it got hot it would blow the fuse and stop running. That's one way to cool it down I guess. :duh: :bandit: