Bandit Alley

MODEL SPECIFIC => SUZUKI BANDIT 250 & 400 => Topic started by: andrewsw on June 14, 2007, 08:04:52 PM

Title: Stupid crappy f***ing float valves!!
Post by: andrewsw on June 14, 2007, 08:04:52 PM
Argh!!!

So I pulled the tank et al and did the valves the other day. The tank was pretty close to empty and of course got sloshed around a bunch. So the next day... won't run for crap. Had to keep it practically wide open and the revs up HIGH :bomb:  to get it home. Everyone's lookin' at me funny   :shrug:

So I figure I got some stuff in the float valves (you know the story). I pull the bowls (while on the bike) and find so much crap in there that three of the four are actually STUCK from the chunks down in them.

Anyway, cut to the next day after fixing it all up and putting in an inline filter and its *STILL* running like crap. I thought I had flushed the lines, but obviously not well enough. I find yet ANOTHER stuck valve  :roll:

argh. on top of all that, I think I've dumped a bunch of gas into my oil as a result.  :sad:

Yee haw.

A
Title: Stupid crappy f***ing float valves!!
Post by: interfuse on June 14, 2007, 08:17:03 PM
Three words...

LINE YOUR TANK

 :stickpoke:
Title: Stupid crappy f***ing float valves!!
Post by: andrewsw on June 14, 2007, 09:31:58 PM
yeah... this winter I think.

actually, this tank was holding up really well until just this last winter. oh well.

A
 :duh:
Title: Stupid crappy f***ing float valves!!
Post by: Banditmax on June 15, 2007, 06:32:08 AM
And watch out i put in an inline filter the other day and it sucked wouldnt flow enough petrol for the carbs.
Title: Stupid crappy f***ing float valves!!
Post by: Bartjan on June 15, 2007, 06:51:33 AM
:stickpoke: get a bigger inline filter

running without one gives these troubles. a good inline filter at a car-store doesnt cost more then 2 euro and saves you from these carb hickups.

i even have an fuel inline filter on my home-pc to filter the water going through the watercooling  :bigok:
Title: Stupid crappy f***ing float valves!!
Post by: Banditmax on June 15, 2007, 08:19:30 AM
May as well line my tank really saves the effort of running a restrictive inline filter.
Title: Stupid crappy f***ing float valves!!
Post by: Bartjan on June 15, 2007, 09:24:24 AM
what exactly do you mean with line the tank? do you mean fix the inside of the tank so theres no rust and other stuff or do you mean that you put a filter in the tank? or something else?

with both things I would still advise to also run an inline filter. they are not all restrictive you know  :wink:
Title: Stupid crappy f***ing float valves!!
Post by: Banditmax on June 15, 2007, 09:27:22 AM
i mean put a coating of fibreglass like stuff on the inside of my tank so its completely clean. Cause at the end of the day the tap has a filter on it too unless your using prime.
Title: Stupid crappy f***ing float valves!!
Post by: Bartjan on June 15, 2007, 11:54:38 AM
having a good tank and a good tap with filter doesnt mean theres no need for an inline filter  :stickpoke:

a €2 non-restrictive inline filter is one of the best investments you can make for the B4  :taz:
Title: Stupid crappy f***ing float valves!!
Post by: andrewsw on June 15, 2007, 03:57:41 PM
I find it hard to believe that a B4 could suck enough gas to overload an inline filter made for a car. But... my saga continues.

I've cleaned up my carbs, readjusted the floats (they got majorly tweaked in this whole thing), resynched the carbs, and installed this rather large inline filter.

It seems pretty nice -- its a universal deal with a cleanable filter element and a glass tube body so you can visually check it. It comes with three different sized nipples to attach the fuel line to. The thing is pretty big, I can't imagine that it won't flow enough fuel...

But I'm still getting some intermittent problems with it stumbling and miss firing. It seems to hit in the mids (right around 7000 rpm) but is very intermittent. I'm wondering if its the fuel filter restricting the fuel flow. But then it has no trouble on the mains up above about 8,000 or so where its really pulling fuel. And I ran it on the highway at a good steady wide open for a while with no problems. I did clean the air filter... maybe I need to tweak the needles. More trouble shooting. ugh.

A
Title: Stupid crappy f***ing float valves!!
Post by: Banditmax on June 15, 2007, 06:17:29 PM
Nah that sounds like its not the fuel filter my inline one stopped the bike from revving at all.
Title: Stupid crappy f***ing float valves!!
Post by: interfuse on June 15, 2007, 07:30:41 PM
I've also got some tinkering to do...  Aren't carbs fun? I can't wait to buy a bike with FI.
Title: Stupid crappy f***ing float valves!!
Post by: andrewsw on June 15, 2007, 07:42:13 PM
Banditmax: yeah. I agree. I think there is still *MORE* crap in the line to be flushed out. That and my choke cable appears to be routed incorrectly resulting in some annoying issues there. ON top of it all, I think I'm still running a little lean on the needles.

Interfuse: that's half the fun, though if I could get to the carbs better without lifting hte tank, life would be good.... maybeits time to chuck the airbox for access sake ;)


A
Title: Stupid crappy f***ing float valves!!
Post by: gsxr400 racer on June 15, 2007, 09:55:04 PM
have you checked that your coil + and _ are tight or that the tab to the kick stand switch is not bent and fully pushing the switch in these two thing will make you insane looking for problems.
Title: Stupid crappy f***ing float valves!!
Post by: duane on June 15, 2007, 10:14:56 PM
Quote from: "andrewsw"
still *MORE* crap in the line to be flushed out.


Just what line are you talking about?  The hose that goes from the petcock to the carb bodies?  Doubtful there's anything large enough to pass through the petcock filters and still be stuck in the hose.  

I cant believe after all these posts no one yet has mentioned clogged jets.  If a lot of particles have passed into the carbs it would be the first thing I'd head for.  Espically the idle jets.  If and when you do get there, pass a piece of wire through them, don't just blow air through them.  Good luck.
Title: Stupid crappy f***ing float valves!!
Post by: interfuse on June 15, 2007, 10:34:42 PM
Here's an oldie goldie  (http://forums.banditalley.net/viewtopic.php?t=2008&start=0) about clogged pilots. Ahhh..  the good ol' days.
Title: Stupid crappy f***ing float valves!!
Post by: PitterB4 on June 15, 2007, 10:46:12 PM
OH SHIT - without clicking the link I KNEW that was my post!  LOL!   :lol:
Title: Stupid crappy f***ing float valves!!
Post by: interfuse on June 15, 2007, 10:53:02 PM
It's the most extensive post on clogged pilot hell. And even has elements of dutch ovens and olestra farts... Rob, the new thing that I can't help laughing about is "sharts"... youtube "shart tales" when you have 8 minutes and the kids aren't around.
Title: Stupid crappy f***ing float valves!!
Post by: andrewsw on June 15, 2007, 10:56:43 PM
okay, that was good reading. especially the dutch oven parts...

new symptom, after going through the floats real good and flushing gas through the whole gas supply line and getting a few more flakes out (that includes the little passages between the carbs.

I'm getting fuel coming OUT of the two holes in the airbox side of the carb throat. Wah? I guess I've got to take them all the way down to nothing...


any ideas

A
Title: Stupid crappy f***ing float valves!!
Post by: PitterB4 on June 15, 2007, 11:08:37 PM
OMG Mike, I had totally forgotten the whole olestra fiasco!  Totally LMAO!  For anyone wondering how that post degenerated, click here (http://forums.banditalley.net/viewtopic.php?t=1503&highlight=olestra).  I have actual tears running down my face from laughing so hard....

I'll hit up you tube when the kids go to bed!
Title: Stupid crappy f***ing float valves!!
Post by: PitterB4 on June 15, 2007, 11:12:31 PM
Quote from: "andrewsw"
okay, that was good reading. especially the dutch oven parts...

new symptom, after going through the floats real good and flushing gas through the whole gas supply line and getting a few more flakes out (that includes the little passages between the carbs.

I'm getting fuel coming OUT of the two holes in the airbox side of the carb throat. Wah? I guess I've got to take them all the way down to nothing...


any ideas

A


Yes.... you need to tear them all the way down.  Sorry dude.  If it's that bad, I'd at least drain the tank, pull the petcock clean that filter and probably replace the fuel line.  The line may have sediment sticking to the sides.
Title: Stupid crappy f***ing float valves!!
Post by: Banditmax on June 16, 2007, 05:24:46 AM
Yep id say thats sticking floats again or maybe you need new float needles?
Title: Stupid crappy f***ing float valves!!
Post by: PitterB4 on June 16, 2007, 07:31:57 AM
Quote from: "PitterB4"
Quote from: "andrewsw"
...
I'm getting fuel coming OUT of the two holes in the airbox side of the carb throat. Wah? I guess I've got to take them all the way down to nothing...


any ideas

A


Yes.... you need to tear them all the way down.  Sorry dude.  If it's that bad, I'd at least drain the tank, pull the petcock clean that filter and probably replace the fuel line.  The line may have sediment sticking to the sides.


BTW... I meant that in addition to a thorough cleaning of the carbs... every little passage.
Title: Stupid crappy f***ing float valves!!
Post by: Banditmax on June 16, 2007, 07:44:24 AM
Maybe worth you investing in an ultrasonic cleaner for your carbs. I did and theyre alot better since then.
Title: Stupid crappy f***ing float valves!!
Post by: gsxr400 racer on June 16, 2007, 11:49:49 AM
Quote from: "duane"
Quote from: "andrewsw"
still *MORE* crap in the line to be flushed out.


Just what line are you talking about?  The hose that goes from the petcock to the carb bodies?  Doubtful there's anything large enough to pass through the petcock filters and still be stuck in the hose.  

I cant believe after all these posts no one yet has mentioned clogged jets.  If a lot of particles have passed into the carbs it would be the first thing I'd head for.  Especially the idle jets.  If and when you do get there, pass a piece of wire through them, don't just blow air through them.  Good luck.


by now if anyone with a Suzuki 400 in-line doesn't go throughout the great carb info on here i don't know what to say so many years of saying the same stuff. all the info to everything is on this board if everyone just looks hey you might find a post that teaches you something else in the process.
Title: Stupid crappy f***ing float valves!!
Post by: andrewsw on June 16, 2007, 12:19:49 PM
SO, yeah, it was one more little chunk. The last time I pulled the carbs and flushed everything really well, all the float needles were moving freely, but apparently, there was a speck in the body of float needle #1 and it finally turned its way sideways and jammed the needle.

Amazingly, everything else seems good. I ran a wire through everything and I'd pulled the idle screws previously. So despite dumping a metric assload of carp through those carbs, the worst I had was a really bad case of stuck float needles.

And to all thanks for the advice.  

gsxr400: indeed. there is a huge amount of really good info here if you just dig a little. Believe me I've learned a ton, even if I don't quite apply it properly. What I find amazing is all the stuff Im learning about my previous bandit that I never knew. That bike was great, but if I'd known what I know now it would have been even better.

cheers

A
Title: Stupid crappy f***ing float valves!!
Post by: gsxr400 racer on June 16, 2007, 01:30:58 PM
Quote from: "andrewsw"
So despite dumping a metric assload of carp through those carbs,


do they stink really bad after that. LOL good deal man i know what you mean i think to know a lot and i still learn stuff about my bike from here. lol
cheers and happy ridding.
Title: Stupid crappy f***ing float valves!!
Post by: andrewsw on June 18, 2007, 02:31:55 PM
gsxr400 racer quipped:
Quote
andrewsw wrote:
Quote

So despite dumping a metric assload of carp through those carbs,



do they stink really bad after that.


yeah. luckily the carp scales are too big to get down the little jets. Its when the bike has shad itself allover that there's real problems. Those tiny scales get everywhere...  ;-P

yup. she's purring now. thanks all

A
Title: Stupid crappy f***ing float valves!!
Post by: Russtang on June 18, 2007, 06:31:38 PM
Quote from: "Banditmax"
And watch out i put in an inline filter the other day and it sucked wouldnt flow enough petrol for the carbs.


Same thing happened to me.  Bought an inline paper filter at the local auto store that wouldn't flow for crap.

Of course I was changing two things at once at the time (fuel filter and air/fuel mixture) & it took a while to figure it out.  I'd get the bike running fine, then it would slowly lean out and die on me.  Pull the carbs, turn the screws and repeat the process...It couldn't be the filter.  It's brand new!  

Finally realized it didn't flow very well and replaced it with a plastic mesh type filter (like the design of the one in the tank).  I think the auto type paper filters need more pressure than just gravity to flow fuel.
Title: Stupid crappy f***ing float valves!!
Post by: andrewsw on June 19, 2007, 02:18:34 PM
need more pressure. that's a really good point. I never thought of that. And of course it makes sense. You usually see those filters between the fuel pump and the carb/fi. And some cars of course have two fuel pumps.

Well for the record, there exists (at least in Schucks stores) a glass bodied, universal, cleanable fuel filter. Retails about $11 US and seems to work just fine. It certainly flows well and you can see clearly if you've got fuel and how dirty the filter is. I think its pretty sweet.
Title: Stupid crappy f***ing float valves!!
Post by: tomacGTi on June 19, 2007, 11:25:02 PM
Not that you want to take advice from a guy with a non-running bike at the moment, but...

I have one of those filters on my bike and it does flow very well however, since the bike is DOA for the time being, I decided to replace the 102.5 MJ for a 105. I removed the carb bottoms and found red dust. Not as much as before installation, but it was still there. I know the filter screen isn't as fine as paper, so take it with a grain of salt.

The filter did catch alot of the larger stuff but the very, very fine silty stuff it did miss. Mind you, my tank has a failing lining so if your is in better nick, then you have nothing to worry about. Having the clear tube to view through helps a ton as well.
Title: Stupid crappy f***ing float valves!!
Post by: andrewsw on June 20, 2007, 01:55:57 AM
yeah. I agree. But its the chunks that stick the float valves. The fine dusty stuff shouldn't really be much of a problem.

I'm going to Kreme the tank this winter...
Title: Stupid crappy f***ing float valves!!
Post by: gsxr400 racer on June 20, 2007, 09:57:21 AM
all these problems im sure i have had or others most of mine came last year during racing or the first few years of this bike i had to kreem the take as well due to the red dust ordeal plus i had a pin hole mine has been done for like 3-4 years now and still good to go. if your tank is not to bad best to save money and get some muriatic acid from the pool cleaners and put about 6-8 cups in and fill with water let stand for 8 hours then drain , also find a way to make a plate to cover the fuel valve hole i use a old tube as a gasket and a piece of aluminum stock for a plate
Title: Stupid crappy f***ing float valves!!
Post by: pmackie on June 20, 2007, 03:43:02 PM
Quote
get some muriatic acid


You should have better luck using Phosphoric Acid, such as CLR or similar. My experience with Muriatic is not good with rust issues. Not as much of a problem with the fuel tank, since you fill it with hydrocarbon fuel after cleaning, but Phosphoric acid reacts better with the iron oxide.

You should be able to put a bottle of CLR into the tank full strength. Circulate it around LOTS, then flush with water, then flush with solvent.

Just my experience...
Title: Stupid crappy f***ing float valves!!
Post by: andrewsw on June 21, 2007, 01:43:44 PM
now that's a good idea, the CLR, as a short term fix, but I'd not want to do that for long. I think if the rust has started, its best to do it all the way. Otherwise you're just wearing away the tank slowly...

.02

A
Title: Stupid crappy f***ing float valves!!
Post by: gsxr400 racer on June 21, 2007, 07:09:13 PM
Quote from: "andrewsw"
The fine dusty stuff shouldn't really be much of a problem.

...


this is the shit that plugs up the slow jets all the time
Title: Stupid crappy f***ing float valves!!
Post by: andrewsw on June 22, 2007, 01:33:05 AM
gsxr400 racer claims:
Quote
 
andrewsw wrote:
Quote

The fine dusty stuff shouldn't really be much of a problem.

this is the shit that plugs up the slow jets all the time


 :sad: