Bandit Alley
MODEL SPECIFIC => SUZUKI BANDIT 250 & 400 => Topic started by: tomacGTi on July 22, 2008, 09:11:15 AM
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Got the little bike on the track yesterday and here are a couple of things I found out...
-The footpegs need to be higher (for me anyway)
I had two cheeks off, knee skimming the deck (and touching down), toe slider taking a beating and a peg scraping along. If I was an inch higher I think it would have helped. That and looking at some pictures, I really needed to hang my knee way further out. The fact my toe slider was hitting hard made it awkward to pivot it on the end to really stick it out there. Easiest way to do it is to use the middle of the peg with your toes and make sure the middle of your ankle is touching the heel plate. Your knee will hit the deck for sure.
-It can achieve stupid lean angles.
The article in Thief's webpage about being able to drag elbow is 85% true. See above for reasons why (and why not).
-You are a brave soul to do it (track) with OEM suspension!
I felt I needed a slightly stiffer spring in the front (have a .91 in now, .95 would have been money) and the rear raised an in or so with the newest GSXR750 shock was good. Any taller in back would have made the bike shake it's head leaving faster sections. I personally think emulators are a must in front as well. Pocono is rougher than hell and even in some sections kiltered over, the front end never felt like it was skipping. 2.5 turns on those for sure with 15wt.
-I now know why Rob went away from this bike for the track.
Nearly everything that people bring out to a trackday will leave it for dead once a straight section comes up. I personally found myself pushing way deeper into corners to make up for lost ground in the straights. I finally gave up when a DRZ went by me and I couldn't keep up because he had more cornering clearance. Pocono has very short straights so that even then I had a hard time reeling him back in there as well.
-Pilot Powers are pretty damn good on the track.
Once I figured out the pressures and dialed in a click more rebound and compression, the tires were tearing much less. 95* day: 30ft 29.5 rear. The centre sections look mint, the sides of the tire took a complete beating. Also, if you think you can get to the edge of this tire, you're a wayyy better man that I. I've got a 1/16th of an inch left on the rear sidewall and less than that on the front and if I tried hard enough I would have touched down an elbow.
I think you factory clip-on guys would have an advantage here because you can bring the tubes down more than we can to match an appropriate raise in the back. My handlebar'd bike was flush with the caps with an inch higher shock in back and I don't think I'd go any higher back there for more clearance. The chicken strips were just about even: just a slight bit more unused in the back meaning way more tire usage up front.
-Even the single-disc Bandit will brake just fine with good pads and fluid.
I have a plate setup so I can run a GSXR750 four pot and it was able to boil the fluid out of the reservoir (sealing issue) but brake fade was never a problem, the lever stayed consistant throughout. Make sure you're running HH pads though, you'll fry the stock black ones.
-Do not fiddle with your tie straps once they have tension on them!
I did what Rob did and dropped the bike dicking around with it. I'm pissed because I don't think it carburated right after. Thankfully, most everything else was undamaged, still annoying though. Yet once again, time to go in there and see what was knocked out of adjustment.
That's about all I can think of, pics to follow and yes, if you really like the twisties with your Bandit, you owe it to yourself to do a trackday at least once. It can be frustrating at times but when I was able to get an open section of track and concentrate more on my lines and body position, I was having a blast. Totally was bummed when the session ended because I was coming around way more towards the end.
My friends also talked me into going into group 3 which for the most part are track day regulars. Intimidating at first but way better once I got comfy because everyone is focused on the same thing: going fast. It's a little sketchy at first with bikes going by you, but you really do get used to it. Make sure you analyze the track and figure out what you and the bike are capable of, you'll make it home for sure.
Oh, and make sure you're fit. If you do not regularly excerise or do any sort of cardio, you will be crippled towards the middle of your day. I had not had the chance to get more than one bike ride in in two weeks and I was suffering. If I wasn't so damn busy driving across the country, I think my body position would have been 10x better due to better support from my core and legs.
-Randy
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Glad you got out there and had so much fun Randy! :bigok:
Are you sure you're up that much in the rear? My last time on the B4 at Pocono, I just about wore through my left knee puck and never touched a peg. BTW - one of my favorite NESBA coaches always preaches about keeping the balls of your foot on the pegs. I damn near have holes in the soles of my track boots there from the knurled Woodcraft pegs on the F3.
It is funny - I think I totally burned off the strip on my front and had a little left on the rear of my PPs after a day at Pocono, too.
Corner speed is your friend. Diving in late isn't always the answer - especially with the B4s brakes (Randy, if you think the B4 slows well, your eyeballs will come flying out of their sockets on my F3. And yes, I had HH pads, good fluid and steel lines on the B4.). Setting up the turn so you have maximum speed on exit will keep those 600s from walking away from you in the straights, especially on the front straight and pulling out of the bus-stop - there's not a lot you can do on that huge super-speedway section.
+1 on the core and leg conditioning. Biking is fantastic preparation. Before I screwed up my knee, I was a runner. Back then, my quads would still fatique badly. Since then, I've taken to mtn biking. I have no problems at all now.
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"My friends also talked me into going into group 3 which for the most part are track day regulars. Intimidating at first but way better once I got comfy"
You don't get faster running with the turtles. :thumb:
I'm glad you had a good time.
G
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It was way more fun than I had expected, like I said, anyone who really, really likes the twisties owes it to themselves to at least do one trackday. Infinitely safer and way more predictable.
Rob, it was my first time at Pocono, let alone in the fast group and the first damn time on the bike in three weeks! I faked it like a champ for the first two sessions and it all came around on the third and fourth. The third was when my knee finally hit the deck.
It wasn't until a buddy told me that all I really had to do was to shove me knee on the deck that it happened. The sad part was that when it did, all I could think of was "that's it??!" It was still pretty damn cool and at least I know now the next time I do this I better invest in a new set of pucks.
If I get back there, I know exactly how the place flows now. I just have to get the balls up to dive into the corner after the speedway section with more verve. I lost alot of time there because I checked up way too much. I knew it was all going better because I was braking way less but harder and just dipping in and out of the throttle more. It was an awesome feeling being heeled over that far knowing that the tires would hold you and that there wasn't a car coming or dirt in the road. Just gotta make sure I don't do any more off road excursions!
Since I was in the "more advanced" group, the coaches were fewer and already had customers so I followed wheels (the best I could) to try to figure the place out. You're right though Gary, I was way better off diving right in rather than stepping up progressively. My friends bumped me from beginner immediately and I was skeptical at first but now am very thankful for it. I learned more by making stupid mistakes than I would have noodling along. I'm happy that some of my mistakes weren't so stupid that I wadded the bike and couldn't keep going.
I almost wished that there was a smaller bike sort of trackday where you wouldn't be buzzed at mach 9 by guys on liter racebikes. Goes without saying though as even DRZ 400s would have their way with me at times.
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"I almost wished that there was a smaller bike sort of trackday where you wouldn't be buzzed at mach 9 by guys on liter racebikes."
With some work you can get these things over 60 hp. Then go racing with bikes in your class. It's fun thrashing the crap out of a little 400. Anybody can go fast in a straight line on a litre bike. But how much fun is it taking these little 400's and reeling in the big boys on the twisties? I'll answer that . . . . lots.
I'm starting a project this winter. It will be a 4 stroke single road racer. I have a frame maker. I have wheels. I need a motor, front end and a swing arm. So I'll busy on ebay this winter. It will be a 450cc of some colour. The frame will be made from chrome molly (sp?) so it will be very light and a ton of fun. I hope to race it in the middle weight class here.
G
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I wish Aprillia had made the RS250 with a 450cc single in it when the emission rules killed it off.
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I'm starting a project this winter. It will be a 4 stroke single road racer. I have a frame maker. I have wheels. I need a motor, front end and a swing arm. So I'll busy on ebay this winter. It will be a 450cc of some colour. The frame will be made from chrome molly (sp?) so it will be very light and a ton of fun. I hope to race it in the middle weight class here.
G
That's a cool thought. I can't get this mad plan out of my head... I'm thinking of a RGV 250 frame with newer GSX-R suspension.... and a CR 500 engine :trustme:
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I wish Aprillia had made the RS250 with a 450cc single in it when the emission rules killed it off.
There's been rumors that Aprilia may marry up one (or both) of their SXV/RXV 450/550 Vtwins into a RS250 (or RS250-like) chassis. Wouldn't be legal for one of those 450 Super Single classes, but I bet it'd make a great track day tool!!
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:worthless:
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Yes, yes I know. Problem is that racedayphoto.com wants like $20 a shot. That and I just got back from the last trip of the year.
Photos soon, I promise.
Album link:
http://www.photoreflect.com/pr3/ViewAlbum.aspx?a=532100
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Look at that little bandit go! Go baby go! :clap:
Nice lean angle.
I like the flyscreen. Which one is that? The buell stock, airtech or holeshot?
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I spotted another Bandit out there with you (shot 43)... was one of the bigger ones (a 2G) though.
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There were a couple of "big Bandits" out there Paul. Three if I remember correctly.
There was the guy that moved up into the group I was in (he should have been there all along), another in group two and there was a guy with the fourth group (the racer's group) giving them hell.
I didn't get the particulars on the bike but I saw an Ohlins can on the frame and some pods and if he was giving the guys on racebikes fits, that thing was massaged.
Search the group 4 pics, I'm sure you'll see him.
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kick stand will make you crash :stickpoke: stick your knee out always in case you slide its there for a prop :banghead: 120 for a two day cd yeah right :rant2: Im in the wrong business...
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like the Tail of the Dragon photo guys... killboy I think? What a deal, spend all day out in beautiful weather shooting a few thousand photos, load them up and sell for $20+. Even if you only sell 1%, it's a fair days pay for hanging out...
OT: did I mention I did the dragon this summer? unfortunately it was in a mini-van. But still a ton of fun. And I was definitely faster than the group of hawgs in front of me.
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OT: did I mention I did the dragon this summer? unfortunately it was in a mini-van. But still a ton of fun. And I was definitely faster than the group of hawgs rolling pylons in front of me.
There, fixed it for ya! :trustme:
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kick stand will make you crash :stickpoke: stick your knee out always in case you slide its there for a prop :banghead: 120 for a two day cd yeah right :rant2: Im in the wrong business...
Dude - I even have a side stand on the race bike! My rear stand with paddles is too much of a pain in the ass to use all day. The sidestand on ebay was like 5 bucks instead of a new race stand for spools for $100. I have been reminded that it was down when I was gridded up ready to head out, though! :duh:
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I have been reminded that it was down when I was gridded up ready to head out, though! :duh:
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Yup, did that once as well when I was gridded up. Had to wipe some stones off the tires that were fused on there and almost left it down, whoops!
You should have seen the look on people's faces when I flicked the center stand down in the pits. It was pretty priceless as some of them had to wrestle with rear stands.
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That's about all I can think of, pics to follow and yes, if you really like the twisties with your Bandit, you owe it to yourself to do a trackday at least once. It can be frustrating at times but when I was able to get an open section of track and concentrate more on my lines and body position, I was having a blast. Totally was bummed when the session ended because I was coming around way more towards the end.
Glad to hear you had a good time. It can be frustrating if you find yourself stuck behind someone that's slower in the corners but faster on the straights. Especially when they keep re-passing you on the straights. Sometimes they let you go, it depends on the group a bit I think.