Bandit Alley
MODEL SPECIFIC => SUZUKI BANDIT 250 & 400 => Topic started by: SRwitt on July 15, 2007, 02:26:45 PM
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Ok I know my mileage isn't going to be spectacular at the moment seeing as I've only got about 250miles since doing a ring job, but I just filled up this morning after filling it up yesterday afternoon. 3.7 gallons for 60 miles ~16mpg. This was riding farely hard the whole 60 yesterday afternoon averaging above 8k when on the gas. She seems to be running a little rich, and have been told by my g/f who has followed me a couple of times that the exhaust smells of fuel.
I haven't ridden too slowly yet (but I haven't been running out to 14k either), to see what happens, I'll try with this tank
Other things that have changed since before I pulled the bike apart. I replaced the stock petcock with a Pingle and the required larger fuel line. I dont seem to be leaking any fuel from where the line attaches to the carbs.
I've removed the airbox snorkel and drilled some holes in the lid, how many holes and how large of holes do you guys that have done this run? I've got 6 ~.5" holes in it right now, nothing crazy just trying to lean it out a little.
Maybe a rebuild and jet kit is in order? The bike has Guam Air Base Stickers on the fork tubes, so in a previous life it was at sea level, I'm at ~2500'.
I know before I tore the top end down I was getting better than 30mpg and no better than 50.
So in order my ?'s are.
1. What type of mileage are you getting
2. Could the larger fuel line be a part of my problem?
3. How many and what size holes are people running in the airbox lid?
4. Which jet kits are people using? I'm thinking of going pods/slip on/factory pro config 30 kit
5. I know the elevation difference from Guam to North Idaho will make it run rich.
6. Could it be just the fact the rings aren't seated yet?
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1. What type of mileage are you getting
Before I went with the race exhaust and bigger jets, I was getting high 30s/low 40s pushing it pretty hard. It was less than that after the mods.
2. Could the larger fuel line be a part of my problem?
Dunno but I doubt it.
3. How many and what size holes are people running in the airbox lid?
I had two ~1 inch holes in mine. I left the snorkel in.
4. Which jet kits are people using? I'm thinking of going pods/slip on/factory pro config 30 kit
I had the FP stage 1 (97 mains) then bumped up to I think 102.5s with the airbox holes and then IIRC, 110s with the race exhaust.
5. I know the elevation difference from Guam to North Idaho will make it run rich.
Dunno
6. Could it be just the fact the rings aren't seated yet?
I'll let one of the engine builders respond
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-Rings not seating would be more oil consumption as well as blow-by. Check your oil level as well as the color of the oil.
-Recent fill-up and on it pretty hard with mods documented in the exhaust cam post: about 40 (since I used some of the fuel in the tank for a carb sync). I'm using a 105MJ. If you're only getting 16, something is very wrong.
-Altitude will affect jetting and economy just by the sheer fact that thinner air has less oxygen for combustion. 2500 feet though is about the border that I've ever noticed.
-Fuel hose should not matter as the bowls technically will determine fuel delivery into the carbs.
You may want to page BrianM on this as he just jetted for altitude. Sounds like he can help you out the most since most of us are at sea level.
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tomac, my oil level hasn't changed, and I'm not getting blue smoke out of my exhaust, so I don't appear to be burning or losing oil. I changed the oil after the first 100 miles with the new rings, I'm sitting a little over 150 more at this point, I will probably be changing it again at the end of this week. Just figuring since the rings are a little tight I'm losing some mpg until they seat fully.
It does start to blow a little smoke after sitting at idle for a couple of minutes once its warm not all the time though, as soon as I get moving the exhaust clears, this smoke appears to be more black though.
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That smoke you talk of more likely to be its running rich/ the floats leaking maybe?
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Now i have re rung my stock motor severally times with no avail you absolutely must get a qualified mechanic to spec out the bore measurements for out of roundness and if they are slightly oblong they need bored or your just beating your meat if anyone takes there motor apart and the cylinder bores are shinny you will have to de-glaze if in spec put new rings on fire it up blip the throttle immediately with varied revs up to 10 grand eventually you will visually see the oil smoke go away letting you know the rings are seated.
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I get about 250kms on a tank of gas (around 14L). Seems pretty normal.
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Cruising on the Hwy @ 100 to 110 kph I get 225 to 240km before i hit reserve. Which is about 14L of fuel burnt.
Playing in the twisties where the tach is between 10000 and 14000 I get 165km before reserve and my speeds are between 185 and 225kph
I'm at 660 above sea level and running 125 mains
As for your rings they should be broken in in about 15 minutes of first start up but as Jay said if you rering oval bores your just pissing in the wind, the oil rings will seal but you will not get full compression.
As for what i have done to the bike look at my past post for mods
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youre going 185-225 in the twisties? DAMN! :shock: wheres this? I'm coming over! :grin:
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youre going 185-225 in the twisties? DAMN! :shock: wheres this? I'm coming over! :grin:
It's our version of the Tail of the Dragon, It's a 25 mile twisty road that runs from one end of Sibley peninsula to the other. We have a core group of 10 guys who go out on Sunday morning, run the road and have breakfast at the end. We use to take new comers but have stopped because every time someone new came along they would try to keep up to us even though we tell them not to and we would end up digging them out of a moose swap and waiting for the air ambulance to show up. Pretty much takes the wind out of a great day.
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Thanks for your responses guys, well some more symptoms, on just about all starts it seems really rich, I never have to use the choke. Just today on my ride home from work, I stopped to cool off for a few minutes, and when I went to restart it would start and then would only run if I kept the throttle open by hand a little bit, I would have to work the throttle to try and get the thing to rev, once it revved she would pipe up and settle back to a steady idle of about 2500. Until that point though if I let off the throttle she would stall.
I think I'm going to have to give her a break for a day and drive the cage so I can dissassemble the carbs and go over all of the settings. My first point I will be looking at will be the floats, those are the only things that I have remotely touched and that was just during dissassembly, didn't touch the tounge that controls their height.
She seems to run alot better in the cool morning air.
Jay I invested in some tools for measuring the bores, I had to have measured each cylinder at least 2 dozen times in various positions at different clocking in each cylinder
(more than just the forward to back and side to side at the three different heights in the manual), they were pretty damn round, within a couple thousandths of an inch all around the cylinders and within stock specs. After honing of course. My unknowing mistake that I was told I shouldn't do was do a comp check after she was reassembled but before the rings were seated, she has good compression ~170-180psi on all 4 after a 2-3 seconds of cranking.
Thanks again for bearing with me guys, this is my first foray into the internals of the I.C.E., I have learned a lot.
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cool glad thats good now do a compression just for referance when it is hot and post that i like to compare lol no hurry tho. sounds like the typical carb problems orings, float needles , float height, emulsion tubes , fouled spark plugs. :motorsmile:
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Well I think I found my problem, I took today off work and have been working on the bike for a whopping 15 minutes. I unscrewed all of the float bowls, and what do I see missing from the #4 carb, the main jet. What do I see laying in the bowl, the main jet. So I'm off to the hardware store to pick up some allen head screws for the float bowls and coming back to set all the adjustments to factory specs, and hopefully I'm off and running.
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laying in the bowl, the main jet
Well, that would certainly cause it too run a little funny. I don't think any of us would have diagnosed that! :wink:
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:congrats:
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Woot!, just got back from a nice long shakedown ride, :grin: 100 miles, barely sipped the gas, she ran like the proverbial raped up, scared me at first reminding me just how fast this little bugger is.
All I did to the carbs were adjust the floats, they were out by about .100" and screw that main jet back in.
As far as I can remember, the thing runs a hell of a lot better now than when I first bought it.
May my car hate me for the rest of the summer now because of the neglect she is about to recieve.
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congrats. Its amazing how those little things, like main jets, can get in the way ;)
Just to add .02 -- I'm getting about 35mpg, but running a touch rich still I think. We'll see after a tank full with lowered fuel level.
D'oh... that's meaningless with out jetting info eh? 105 main, 3rd clip position on factory pro needles, 3.25 idle screw and 15mm float level (recently changed to 16mm... we'll see).
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congrats. Its amazing how those little things, like main jets, can get in the way ;)
Just to add .02 -- I'm getting about 35mpg, but running a touch rich still I think. We'll see after a tank full with lowered fuel level.
D'oh... that's meaningless with out jetting info eh? 105 main, 3rd clip position on factory pro needles, 3.25 idle screw and 15mm float level (recently changed to 16mm... we'll see).
Hey, we'll have to get our bikes together someday. I'm just over in Rathdrum. Which factory pro kit are you using? I want to pick one up, I'm just not sure which kit to get, the regular kit, the regular but ti-needle kit, or config 30 kit. Can the stage 1 kits support pods and all that?
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the regular and the ti same kit just getting the extra added benefit of having needles that last longer, both will support pods but may not come with the higher main jet to do so like the configuration 30 kit. ( i think i was running 130's ) with my pods back in the day when i ran stock carbs
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SRwitt: Indeed, we need to hook up. We probably have the only b4's in the nearest couple hundred miles. Lets set a date and meet in the middle for a ride. I'm no good this saturday, but how about next saturday (July 28?)? Honestly, I'm not sure which Factory Pro kit it is because it came with the carbs... bought from Krautwagen...
Pods. I was talking to a suzuki factory mechanic the other day and when I mentioned I had a k&n filter he really cringed, until I mentioned it was the stock replacement with airbox. His opinion was that pods don't necessarily help as the airflow can get really turbulent and result in less flow in certain circumstances. I don't know who big a deal that is with the B4, especially if you can rig up the side covers somehow.
But then again, if you're running a 130 main and it properly tuned, then there must be more air moving...
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Man next weekend I'm busy, and I damn near wrecked the bike today, riding to work I struck a deer, didn't go down but I now have some damage to take care of.
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glad your ok mate
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Believe me I am too, I don't really have anything to blame but myself. Right place, wrong time to play. In afterthought things could have gone way worse, I didn't see the deer in time to brake or try to avoid it ,I just said to myself "oh S***" and just hung on, a split second later I realise I'm still upright and moving.
All said and done I've got a bent but not leaking radiator, the fan is hitting it now though when it switches on. A busted front turn signal, and a banged up hand and leg.
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:shock: :shock: :shock:
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Damn man, glad to hear you're still with us!
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wow man! sorry to hear but glad you're okay.
Where were you when it happened?
I find myself getting lazy about deer. I ride everyday, but its mostly in town. When I do get out for a little jaunt its usually in the late evening -- prime deer time, but I haven't seen any in a while and I _know_ I've hit some corners too fast to deal with a deer on the other side of the apex.
Well, let me know if there's anything I can do to help.
Amazing that you didn't go down...
Let me know when you're ready for a ride...
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Andrew I was on Hwy 41, between Blanchard and Newport.
Not really much needed for the bike, I'm going to bend the radiator back enough so the fan doesn't hit it, other than that I'll be picking up new signals and front tire tomorrow. The bike will be ready again tomorrow, now I just have to get my nerve back, I rode it home from work, I was a nervous wreck most of the way home though.
Next weekend may still be a possibility for me, I just need to see how my hand/wrist feel, the swelling has gone down, but its still pretty painful to grip anything. I don't even want to try holding myself up on the bike with the clip-ons at the moment. I'm going to try and get out on it this weekend, make sure my body/mind is up to it, then I'll let you know for sure about meeting up.
I'm pretty amazed I didn't go down myself, the deer hitting the bike put me in a pretty good tank slapper. This experience has changed my whole outlook on playing around on some of the finer roads here in Idaho. No more playing unless I can see 20-30 ft on both sides of the road.
I don't know how I missed seeing it, I glanced down at my guages to check my speed when I looked back up all I could see was a deer making the this is gonna hurt face.