Bandit Alley
MODEL SPECIFIC => SUZUKI BANDIT 250 & 400 => Topic started by: TJS on October 14, 2012, 11:10:23 PM
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Time to start the re-build after most of the moc up. I did find an electrical issue in the head light.
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One more electrical label hint and the headlight issue. I hope the headlight is just fron using an HD bulb.
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Buddy bracket cut and new MIG welded to fit GSXR passenger bracket and pegs. Also, welded up Scotts dampner bracket.
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Motor is out. Now what?
Frame color? I Nickel plate until I saw the price..$850. Now I'm thinking Fire Red powder coat
Body work paint? I've been playing with a few ideas.
Wheels, have to be white
Swingarm? Leave clear aluminum or same as frame?
I have '95 gsxr 750 forks anidized clear aluminum or '94 forks that are blue anodized
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Nice looking project you have here :thumb:
I wouldn't be tempted to paint the swingarm the same colour as the frame/body as in my opinion it just doesn't look right on any bike (unless both parts are black).
Get yourself a nice side on shot of the bike. Then have a quick bash at it with photoshop or gimp (etc), to choose a colour scheme that you like. :grin:
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I wanna do that some time.. but no room inside, and electrical stuff scares me.. Don't wanna connect the ECU etc. :(
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Cut and ground:
1. air box frame brackets
2. inside the frame for more chain clearance
Drilled and tapped:
1. Lower holes for rear sets. This will allow me two positions for the rear sets. One position is about stock for long rides. The second position is up two inches for stock for sport riding or trackday.
2. Holes in the picture are for a possible 750 radiator
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Paint ideas. The tank and body work is silver, even though it looks white in the pics. Wheels are white or black. Swingarm will not be powdercoated; unless I find the money for the Nickel plating....guess I need to sell something.
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Well, now I'm holding off on moving forward with the powrdercoating. The wife needs a new stove. I hope there is a "same as cash" credit deal around!
This will give me more time to brainstorm on colors, change fork oil (I wanted to have them professionally rebuilt. That can wait as the seals are good), prep other parts for paint or powdercoat, .....basically tinker around until I can have the frame powdercoated.
The frame will be my starting point and then build and pay as I go.
$$$ items:
Paint tank, fender, side panels
Custom front and rear seat
Powdercoat wheels, brake calibers, and small parts
Brake caliber and master cylinder rebuild kits for front and rear
New wheel bearings, neck bearings and race, swingarm bearings
Scotts dampner (the one in the pic is from my 750)
Petcock: rebuild kit or Pingel
Tires
Chain & spocket
1/4 turn throttle tube
Grips
Professionally rebuild the Fox shock
Dream Sheet:
1mm big bore kit with head work....and lighter crank
33mm FCR Kehein carbs
Samco hoses
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Made a new mud flap... Measure, cut, weld, grind,....not as easy as it looks! I am still learning.
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Pulled wheel bearings, cut tabs on swingarm chainguard, and put bolts in where I don't want powdercoating.
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Used Tusk bearing remover.
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Stripping the brakes for powder coating. I had to use a heat gun and penetrating oil. I can't believe I rode around with stuck brake pistons.
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Wow’ what a rebuild! :thumb: can’t wait to see the finishes bike! .
I been trying to doing some research on which caliper would best work on the rf swinger r/s.
Before I move onto the sprockets/chain alignment, milling of parts and so on.
I was wondering’ If you don’t mind me asking what caliper set-up you used on the rear? did you use RF caliper and RF mounting bracket making use of the slot on the swingarm or did you stay with the torque rod type. If so was it a gsxr or !! which year! And any reasons why you did or didn’t do something! .
Many Thanks... any help and input may help to speed-up my build.
And a merry Christmas and happy new year to you and everyone on Bandit Alley. :beers:
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The complete RF 900 swingarm, brake, and wheel work. I think the RF 900 changed to the "arm" support in '96, but it should work. I used shorter links to raise the rear. Check my other build threads for more details or PM me. The big concern is sprocket alignment and tire clearance. Check my sprocket posts/threads for more information about that.
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Hey I've been toying with stiffer valve springs cause I replaced my cdi when it burnt out with a derestricted one from the land of china. A higher redline would be cool. What are your thoughts?
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I'm not an engine professional. But, I'm in USA and my cdi allows a redline of about 14,000 rpm. Any higher and I think titanium would be needed. I suggest starting a new thread and I'm sure some of the motorcycle mechanics can will help.
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Thanks for your reply, I may pm you later, don’t want to bother you too much over the festive season.
I have read your sprocket posts/threads few times now and have just check the other posts you have posted here.
The rf arm and gsxr wheel are now in my b4 frame, I already have and was aiming to use rf caliper mounting bracket that slots into the slot on the arm. I can see for various reasons the b4 caliper won't work with this bracket, so was looking at a rf caliper... The Rf’s wasn’t that popular over here in the UK so trying to find good rf part on ebay in the UK isn’t easy as it seams on your side of the water but before paying the P/P cost?... I was wondering if you had used something else I hadn’t come across or thought! ...which may be easier to find on UK-ebay.
I knew’ as you say the sprocket alignment and tire clearance is the bigger concern and needs to be right. I have started looking at this step/measurement, etc. but wanted to sort-out the caliper first.
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The rear brake is the same on the 94/95 gsxr 750. Also see my cafe build thread. I went with two RM 250 sprockets welded together.
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Nice work! :beers:
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The rear brake is the same on the 94/95 gsxr 750. Also see my cafe build thread. I went with two RM 250 sprockets welded together.
Thanks TJS.. I check the 94/95 gsxr 750 :thumb: out later and I knew you used with the RM250 sprockets welded together.
I was hoping to work on the bike over the pass two days, but been in front of the computer sorting out problems after a Norton restart-major crash :yikes: there always something stopping me from working on the bike :banghead:.
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Back from powder coating.
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New All Balls race and head bearings, clean and grease swingarm bearings, and started putting things together.
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Looking great and moving along at some pace.
How please are you with the finish on the powder coating. Im still haven’t decided which way to go whether to us powder coating or not.
Plus..like to say a big thanks :thumb: ... I thought all gsxr 750 94/95 caliper were around this year of the torque rod type.
I found 95 gsxr750 caliper, very clean with new looking pads on ebay.uk... the only good one I could find, for very good price. Came today, fits the RF mounting bracket and fits the disc and wheel with no trouble, great.
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I like the powder coating for it's durability. It is hard to remove though; if you change your mind about the color. One hint, when its time to paint or powder; put bolts in and cover any area you don't want painted or powdered. Using stripper or re-cutting threads sucks!
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Brakes now have new seals
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'94 and '95 GSXR 750 or RF 900 sprocket hub will work.
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Hi TJS
You answered my question and more. :thumb:
My measurement of 80mm was the depth from your starting point in "ref photo rsprocket 2" To the top of the hub where the bearing seal this and not the sprocket.
After all components were fitted on my axle I still had a gap and as I can’t be for sure my 5.5 wheel is off a 750/1100 gsxr or year (you can’t always trust what a seller is telling you? as he didn’t know the different between 4.5 and 5.5 was!)
Its seam Suzuki fitted different sprocket hubs at times I was wondering if this is why there was a gap.
I wasn’t after the measurement to the sprocket itself (oem 70mm) but this answered my question anyway, along with the ref photo "rsprocket 3". I now known our hubs are the same too, Well not at the moment' I’ve still to get my hub milled,
it’s hope too known you had 3mm milled off the hub.. ref photo "rsprocket 1".
and that the gap is again no problem once tighten-up.
I hope all the above makes sense to everyone!.
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Tell the machinist to keep the "lip" that the sprocket centers itself on. If not; your sprocket will not center itself on the hub when you tighten it onto the hub.
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am where of the important of keeping the "lip" "THANKS" for making sure I know and others! may not.
That's my next task to sort out the chain and sprockets and any milling need doing, I've started, but other things have' once again taking me away from the bike for while.
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Rebuilding rear and front master cylinder.
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Rebuilding the front mc. This kind of gunk was also inside the calibers and the rear mc.
I need a good set of snap ring pliers and brake piston pliers!
I used the red rubber grease on the seals and brake pistons as it is inteaded. So, I'm giving it a try on the mc seals instead of soaking them in brake fluid.
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New seals pressed in the front and rear wheels. I used a heat gun on the wheel and the bearing went in pretty easy.....as they were the same temperature as my garage...32 F / 0 C
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One of the front sprocket part #'s used to weld together.
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Took the rotors to a freinds house to use his blast cabinet. I used fine sand.
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Stripping the brakes for powder coating. I had to use a heat gun and penetrating oil. I can't believe I rode around with stuck brake pistons.
Hey TJS,
How did you have the pistons removed? Used piston pliers? Compressed air? Mine are also badly stuck :banghead:
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You can buy brake piston pliers or vise grips with something protecting the piston from the vise grip's teeth. I used a heat gun and penetrating oil on each piston for 3-5 minutes. You can try compressed air or take to an auto shop where they can blow nitrogen through the line. Best case; don't disconect the mastercyclinder and sqeeze the brake lever until the piston pops out.
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#worksmartnothard clever TJS
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Picked up Fox shock and gsxr forks from: http://ltthor.home.comcast.net/~ltthor/forsale.html
....and went to putting it on the bike.
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Cleaned rotor buttons with a Tusk bearing puller and brake clean. It cleaned the sand from blasting right out!
* used grinding pad to "swirl" and a little buff the rotor carrier
* Mounted the rotors front and rear
* Wheels on
* Brake calibers on
* new bleeders added to calibers
* Drill and tap holes for stearing stops
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As I am going through this build... I am thankful for this nice garage. Some of you guys remember when I first came on and I was working out of a 4x8 shed or in the back yard. And some guys in another forum loaned me their garage space back in the 90's when all I had was an apartment. So, at 43 years old I am glad my wife doesn't give me enough sex and I am forced to put that energy into riding, racing, and wrenching. That sounds like it should be whole thread to it's selfe.
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Sex is totally cutting into my wrenching time... well maybe not sex per se, but the 3 month old baby it created.
I'm really liking the powder coating. It looks so fresh!
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A little sex ...then a little work. Damn wife is cutting into my bike time!
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One of the guys came over after work and helped me put the motor in.
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Electric harness on ..carbs on
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wow you've been busy!
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I forgot how long it takes to drill every bolt and safety wire!
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Got it running today! Just need to fix the headlight.
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I'm stopping the post build here.....no more $$$!
Maybe next winter or over the next few winters:
Paint tank and panels silver or black with a racing stripe.
3 mm big bore kit
GSXR 400 cams
Small head and valve job
Pingel cam chain adjuster
Pingel petcock
re-wire and hide connections
Corbin / Sargent seats
33mm FCR carbs
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Scotts on and lookn pretty! Things to do .....later.
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She looks great matey. Love the front end tool bag :thumb:
Now get out there and make her dirty again :motorsmile:
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Problem 1: I was having some chain rub problems on the certain tires
Problem 2: Chain rub on the shift rod.
Solutions to Problem 1: Front sprocket measurements were good from the machinist. 3mm off rear sprocket hub was wrong for alignment. I am now using stock oem rear sprocket hub from a '94/'95 gsxr 750. Note RF 900 is the same hub.
Solutions to Problem 2: I can go to having my local machinist make a 14t front sprocket and/or change rear sprocket from 47 to 45 to change the chain angle.
I have a 45t rear on order.
I don't want to pay for another special front sprocket; if I can help it.
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Hi TJS
Thanks for your thread and the info in it.
I'm about to embark on putting a GSXR600 K4 swingarm and wheel in the back of my 19 400 and i was just looking into the chain run issue.
On the rear hub, was the 3mm machined off the face the sprocket sits on?
I've been working out what 520 sprockets i can get, i think 45/46 is biggest rear 520 conversion i can find, was probably looking to run 13/46 if possible.
Would the 13t solve the front gear selector issue?
Cheers and many thanks again
Chris
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13t or 14t front would work. What you machinne off or don't machine off for the rear sprocket will be determined by how much of a kick you can machine for a front sprocket. See my threads on sprockets or previous build thread.
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..by the way 13T would be very small. That could cause gearing issues on the highway. The small turn radious could also put a lot of stress on your chain and motor. If you use a 13T; get the best chain you can afford and keep it lubed!
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I had wondered about that, i was looking for a little more acceleration so it would be a bit down on top end.
Biggest Rear GSXRK4 Sprocket i could find was a 46 which put it back somewhere near stock ratio.
Will be interesting to see, i may have an issue with machining the rear hub down, there isn't much to take off the front of this particular hub unlike the older type wheels.
I know unique is having an offset front made by Talon, i may give them a call and see if they can replicate it
Cheers
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Installed the 45t and it helped. I could have stuck with the 47; if I wanted to run a tighter chain. I tend to run a loose chain for my weight, riding style, and putting my wife on the back.
I will be getting a 14t front to give me more gearing options.
Note, that the bigger wheel does lower your gearing. So, even though I was running stock gearing of 15t and 47T; the bigger rear wheel is like running a 49t or 50t. If I go with the 14t front; then I will probably move to a 43 rear.
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Chain clearance with the '94/'95 gsxr oem sprocket hub and stepped out front sprocket.
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I will be getting a 14t front to give me more gearing options.
Note, that the bigger wheel does lower your gearing. So, even though I was running stock gearing of 15t and 47T; the bigger rear wheel is like running a 49t or 50t. If I go with the 14t front; then I will probably move to a 43 rear.
I thought 14t was stock on b4, though mine is 1989 bike. I stayed with 14t on the new offset sprocket for gearing reasons as well as the same reasons quoted and that there not much room around the front sprocket to do much else.
I had wondered about the bigger rear wheel and the effect it has on the gearing and reasons in-part we went with the rear 45t.
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15t front and 45t rear and ...NO rubbing! not on the shift shaft or tire.
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My front sprocket is 16mm thick. The one like Unique is using from Talon is 14.5mm
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Sycn the carbs:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2mYlVHf3spU
Motion Pro video on " How to.."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2nwP6R1P58A
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My new Talon sprocket from across the pond. 14T / 520 / 16mm
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Cool, that's a pretty quick turn round on a special sprocket :grin:
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Talon sprocket on the bike.
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:thumb: Yes that was very quick
Perhaps any future orders of these Talon sprockets will be as quick as Talon now have the basic setup in their software, you only need to give them the offset you need!.
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Unique,
Thanks to you...We all can get quality sprockets!
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Factory Pro Stage III instructions:
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Hi TJS your frame looks fantastic powder coated. I love the GSXR forks and RF swingarm too. Maybe in the future for mine! Thanks for putting all the info and pics on, it all helps plan my project too...! I'm still in the 6x8 shed
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Yes it looks great...!!! just hoping to get mine up and running
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My pics and video were just added to the Factory Pro website:
http://www.factorypro.com/Prod_Pages/prods41.html
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Just want to remind everyone that you only have to mill the rear sprocket hub; if you use a machined RM 250 front sprocket or any sprocket less than 16mm or 15mm total width. The first pic is a RM 250 machined down. Second: Two RM 250s welded and machined, and finally the Talon was installed as seen above.
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warning! warning! warning!
This has been stated before: If you have the rear sprocket hub machined; make sure the machinist doesn't remove the thin sprocket alignment lip!
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What frame sliders are you using?
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Comes in or black. The guy will also do custom.
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Did you just by a set for the GSXR? or did you have him custom make them?
Thanks Craig
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I just bought the stock gsxr set. I think all I did was trim the end that goes toward the frame with a saw and file.
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I just ordered a white carb heat shield from here. UK to USA postage wasn't bad. I paid all through paypal and original contact was done through his facebook account.
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All previous are not showing! :duh: :duh: :banghead: I guess when we moved this website they were lost or ????
If you need pics of any of the previous; just let me know.