Bandit Alley
MODEL SPECIFIC => SUZUKI BANDIT 600 thru 1200 - AIR/OIL COOLED TECHNICAL => Topic started by: RUSS M8 on March 26, 2005, 03:41:47 AM
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Has anybody had experience with fitting 4 small pod air filters on a B12? I don't think I will do this mod to my bike because my guess would be that it would help top end and loose bottom end, but I don't know? And it looks super trick :grin:
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Dale's stage 2 kit uses 2 K&N oval pods.
Of course you need a performance exhaust too, otherwise you're pissin in the wind.
But,
http://www.holeshot.com/bandit/bndt_b12_stage2.shtml
(http://www.holeshot.com/bandit/images/bndt_b1200_stage2.jpg)
Stage 2 Kit Includes:
* Dual K&N oval air filter
* K&N crank case vent filter
* 3 sets of original Mikuni main jets
* 1 set of original Mikuni pilot jets
* Holeshot® aluminum hard anodized adjustable needles
* Stainless allen bolts to replace the float bowl screws
* Complete installation and tuning tip instructions
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I'm not surprised that the pod type are out there for the Bandit, but I suspect that it is a top end mod, and would not help (or may even hurt) bottom end performance - which is NOT what I want (I use the bike to get to work every day, so I don't want a top end machine for commuting).
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Sounds like you've been misinformed. The only thing that will take away low end and move the HP to the top end is changing camshafts (the gsxr cam is a popular mod).
The only thing a jet kit and exhaust will do is open air flow, which allows the engine to move more air, hence produce more power.
Stage 1 jet kit leaves the stock airbox. Stage 2 kit uses pods.
Do some research on the board, you'll see..
I have a stage 2 and slipon. It still makes power in the same places, just more. Top ends the same, cause I'm using my stock cam.
You'll see about 15-20% increase in power at the same rpms, just due to increased air flow and proper carb jetting.
If you just commute though, you may be happy saving your money and keeping it stock. I'm more of a pleasure rider, don't commute on the bike.
Mike
:)
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Actually, Dale has two Stage II kits now... a SII w/Airbox and a SII w/pods.
The kit w/pods does make a hair more power than the airbox version.
But like Mike said, it increases power across the board.
At 3250 RPM, a SII (with a slip-on) is almost 5hp stronger than stock, by 4500 RPM, the margin is smaller at ~3hp. Once you get up to the peak at 8250, the difference is ~15hp
Dale's charts & graphs can be seen here:
http://www.holeshot.com/dynocharts/dyno_bandit_1200_2001.shtml
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is there any way just to get the filters?? or do you have to buy the whole kit? i looked on the web site but didn't see em as a seprate item, looked on k&n's site and they didn't come up for the bandit! would love to have em but allready have a jet kit!
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Yes, you can buy the K&N dual flange pods without buying a jet kit. They are listed on the K&N site, but not as a Bandit-specific application, instead they are in the "universal" category. I forget which p/n is the ones the Bandit uses, but a little work with a measuring stick will tell you if you compare your measurements to K&N's here:
http://www.knfilters.com/search/univdualtapoval.aspx
If you already have a jet kit, you will probably have to fatten it up some more to run these.
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i have ivans kit, will the two be compatable? my guess is i'll have to move my needles up some or is this gonna be a whole jet change?
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I don't know much about Ivan's kit but I do know that if you pull the air box and go to pods you will have to increase your fuel flow quite a bit. Mine went from a 110 main with a modified air box to a 160 with the pods.
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Hey Everyone:
I can tell you that modifying airbox's (Including pod filters) will affect low range performance slightly. (This according to my seat of the pant's Dyno) However, it will increase top end performance.
I recently removed a jet kit from a friends bike which included taping off the airbox hole, and a very noticable low end difference was seen. (From idle to about 3500 rpm. I have also noticed with mine that removing the velocity snorkle will also decrease low end performance. Carburators need vaccum to work, and in order to create vacuum you need resistance. I am not an engineer, but from playing with Bandits, these have been my observations.
Most of the tuners test their jet kits on a Dyno for maximum HP. From what I have seen, you do take a little low end fun factor away (but gain high end fun factor) from modifying air box's. I would bet a few cold beers that modifying an airbox will change the torque curve on a B-12 at low end.
I also have another friend that went to pod air filters and they can cause problems if you ride in heavy rains. ( I experianced this a weekend ago with my moded airbox also though, in very heavy rain) The bike did not want to run very well gulping all that water.
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i have ivans kit, will the two be compatable? my guess is i'll have to move my needles up some or is this gonna be a whole jet change?
You will definetly have to increase you main jet sizes before anything. (I would guess to 150's minimum, with pod filters.
I have Ivan's jet kit in mine, and if your running on the 3rd clip, moving to the 4th clip would make you run very rich in the needle stage. (At least in my neck of the woods in low humidity)
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thought so! i think i will look in to this next spring! have any of you try'd outerwears to try and help with the rain problems? if i rember right the shed water!
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If you have a 2G, water is no issue as the pods hide behind the sidecovers. On the 1G, you'll have a problem if you ride thru torrential downpours with a crosswind component... mostly, you just want to avoid getting water sprayed directly on them. Riding in most rain conditions isn't a problem.
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I have been thinking of going with pods to avoid having to deal with the airbox when tuning. Per Ivan, his needles will not work with pods though, they apparently require more taper to keep the mixture rich enough. It is not a matter of just lowering the clips.
I have run pods on my '83 GS750 for 20 years. Lived in New Orleans, and rode in the rain alot. No problems at all except when the bike sits on the sidestand in the rain. This will expose the #4 carb filter to the rain. I used to carry a ziploc bag to slip over it when I had to park it outside in the weather (no centerstand).
Ride On, Ed.
2005 GSF1200SZ
1983 GS750ED
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The rain when parked on the sidestand problem doesn't exist with the 2G Bandits since the pods hide nicely behind the sidecovers.
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I was happy with Ivan's kit with the airbox mod. Didn't lose any low -mid power and top end was very strong, crisp and smooth.
The dyno charts may lie, but Ivan's peak power numbers were almost the same a Dale's Stage II, so I saw no point in paying WAY more for Dale's setup.
I also like the idea of not having the pods for easy/worry free washing/rain riding. Though most people say it's not an issue.
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Thats the reason I went with Ivan's fit. I already have a very maintence intensive bike- my 750- I wanted a simple kit to install and forget about on my B12.
That looks like that is not going to be the case though. I had the bike set up perfectly for the 90-95 degree summer temps I ride in here in Dallas. Took it out the other morning, after a cool front passed, in 65 degree weather and it was stumbling at 4000-5500 rpm- lean on the needle.
It looks like different setting are going to be required for when temps change 20 or so degrees. I don't know if this is his kit or the B12 itself, but apparently it is very sensative with regards to temp/jetting. I plan to talk with Dale to see if his Stage 2 requires multiple setting. If I have to pull the carbs a few times a year, the airbox is gone.
If anyone else has any info please let me know. Thanks, Ed
2005 GSF1200SZ
1983 GS750ED
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I ran my bike all "winter" here in Atlanta and all summer. Riding temps from 40-105*F. I never had an issue, though it did seem to be a bit rich in the warm, so it was probably just right in the cooler temps.
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I was looking for that last 5% when I made my final adjustment. I went from the 3rd (middle) clip position to the 2nd from the top with a supplied shim. This cleared the slight hint of a rich stumble at 4000-5000rpm at 90degrees but is too lean for anything below 70 degrees.
I suspect it is in the needle taper itself. I was looking for perfection, I might have to settle on a slightly rich condition at max ambient temps to correct this.
Ride On, Ed.
2005 GSF1200SZ
1983 GS750ED