Bandit Alley
MODEL SPECIFIC => SUZUKI BANDIT 600 thru 1200 - AIR/OIL COOLED TECHNICAL => Topic started by: techb on April 08, 2007, 06:25:32 PM
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I am thinking about putting a gsxr intake camshft on my 2003 b12. I am wondering what years of gsxr camshafts fit? Any year? Do I need to adjust the fuel mixture for the mod? Thanks :grin:
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Any GSXR 1100 before 1991. The cams that work have 4 lobes per cam, the newer ones have 8 lobes per cam. The 89 750 cams have more lift than the 1100 cams. My best ET and MPH was with 89 1100 cams, and the dyno was also, all though I am now running the Cammotion G21 cams with .380 lift. :motorsmile:
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Holeshot offers GSXR cams, (http://www.holeshot.com/bandit/bndt_camshafts.shtml) I think these are the '89 GSXR750 ones, but his site doesn't say for sure. You could always contact Dale and ask.
The years of cams that fit:
GSXR750 1985-1990
GSXR1100 1986-1990
NOTE: You must use B12 cam sprockets with cams from GSXR's (or any other SACS family motor) as they are different.
In 1991 the GSXR's went from screw adjust to shim adjust and that's when & why the lobe count doubled. The entire head from a 1991 GSXR750 or a 1991-1992 GSXR110 can be swapped onto a B12 motor (as can the earlier head), but if you swap in a GSXR head you need to use the B12's cam sprockets.
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thanks for the infomation. since I am increasing the air into the motor do I need to increase the amount of fuel into the motor or is it not enough to worry about. thanks
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If you already have a jet kit installed, I don't think you will have to much to the carbs. Increased air flow should increase the fuel also, and the ratio should not change. :motorsmile:
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That sounds great. I do have a jet kit. I do believe I am going in that direction. Thanks for the info. :grin:
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Any GSXR 1100 before 1991. The cams that work have 4 lobes per cam, the newer ones have 8 lobes per cam. The 89 750 cams have more lift than the 1100 cams. My best ET and MPH was with 89 1100 cams, and the dyno was also, all though I am now running the Cammotion G21 cams with .380 lift. :motorsmile:
Great info - thanks. What kind of torque does the modded motor make with the 89 1100 cams? Have you installed other updates, like cam oiler hoses and manual cam chain tensioner?
Thanks, Herb
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1998 Suzuki Bandit, J&E 13 to 1- 1246 Piston Kit, Lazer Level 3 Ported Head w/ over-size stainless steel, 30mm intake and 26mm exhaust, valves, APE bronze valve guides, Heavy Duty Valve Springs. CamMotion G21 Cams w/ Slotted Sprockets, Holeshot top end oiler kit, Mikuni 38mm Flatslide Carbs with K-N Pod Filters, Quarter Turn Throttle. 4” over swing arm, HEL Oversized Oil Cooler w/ SS Lines, Hindle SS Exhaust, Holeshot Power Shifter3, Dyna shift light, Pingel High Flow Petcock, GSXR 1100 Clutch, Cable clutch conversion, GSXR 1100 shock rebuilt by Lindeman, Front Forks Rebuilt by Lindeman, LSL Rearsets, Tokico 6 Pot Brakes w/ SS Lines,
155 RWH, 94 ft lb torque, With 89 GSXR 1100 Cams
9.78 et at 139.84 mph best ¼ mile.
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1998 Suzuki Bandit, J&E 13 to 1- 1246 Piston Kit, Lazer Level 3 Ported Head w/ over-size stainless steel, 30mm intake and 26mm exhaust, valves, APE bronze valve guides, Heavy Duty Valve Springs. CamMotion G21 Cams w/ Slotted Sprockets, Holeshot top end oiler kit, Mikuni 38mm Flatslide Carbs with K-N Pod Filters, Quarter Turn Throttle. 4” over swing arm, HEL Oversized Oil Cooler w/ SS Lines, Hindle SS Exhaust, Holeshot Power Shifter3, Dyna shift light, Pingel High Flow Petcock, GSXR 1100 Clutch, Cable clutch conversion, GSXR 1100 shock rebuilt by Lindeman, Front Forks Rebuilt by Lindeman, LSL Rearsets, Tokico 6 Pot Brakes w/ SS Lines,
155 RWH, 94 ft lb torque, With 89 GSXR 1100 Cams
9.78 et at 139.84 mph best ¼ mile.
Got it - thank you! You have 94 lb-ft of torque; amazing. Where is Lindeman's located?
Herb
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Lindeman Engineering
520 McGlincey Ln. #3
Campbell, Ca. 95008
408-371-6151
This address and phone number are about 6 years old, I hope that they are still good.
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Lindeman Engineering
520 McGlincey Ln. #3
Campbell, Ca. 95008
408-371-6151
This address and phone number are about 6 years old, I hope that they are still good.
Thanks - googled their website using the address you supplied. They're still there.
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Rick at Cogent Dynamics is another option. He is very schooled on the B12 and can do forks and rear shocks. he has a new height adjustable shock for around $500. I just bought one for my '05 model
(http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a243/GS750ED/P1010564.jpg)
very nice rear shock, the extra ride height at the rear does wonders. He is a frequent contributor at MaximumSuzuki.
Good Luck, Ed
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Ed, if it works half as good as it looks, it should be great! :bigok:
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Rick at Cogent Dynamics is another option. He is very schooled on the B12 and can do forks and rear shocks. he has a new height adjustable shock for around $500. I just bought one for my '05 model
(http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a243/GS750ED/P1010564.jpg)
very nice rear shock, the extra ride height at the rear does wonders. He is a frequent contributor at MaximumSuzuki.
Good Luck, Ed
Thanks, Ed. I have a '99 B12S, where the rear shock is height-adjustable by changing the pre-load. I set mine to 7, the maximum, and it made a positive difference in the handling, but the durn thing still "falls-in" doing slow turns. Also, I don't understand why the manual says that "4" provides the stiffest rebound damping!
I'll try raising the front fork through the triple-clamps next. The front fork is already set to max pre-load as well, but I'm not thrilled with the way it "pogos" over bumps now. I know that progressive springs and gold valves are the way to go, but I want to try everything else first. Maybe I can get some advice from Rick at Maximum Suzuki.
Regards, Herb
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Rick at Cogent Dynamics is another option. He is very schooled on the B12 and can do forks and rear shocks. he has a new height adjustable shock for around $500. I just bought one for my '05 model
(http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a243/GS750ED/P1010564.jpg)
very nice rear shock, the extra ride height at the rear does wonders. He is a frequent contributor at MaximumSuzuki.
Good Luck, Ed
Give Rick a shout, he has a front fork mod where he cuts the progressive part out of the stock fork springs (basically converting them to straight rate) and uses a spacer to make up the difference. He can also give you advice on what type of oil and quanity to run up front. His shop is Cogent Dynamics, I am very impressed with his work.
Good Luck, Ed.
Thanks, Ed. I have a '99 B12S, where the rear shock is height-adjustable by changing the pre-load. I set mine to 7, the maximum, and it made a positive difference in the handling, but the durn thing still "falls-in" doing slow turns. Also, I don't understand why the manual says that "4" provides the stiffest rebound damping!
I'll try raising the front fork through the triple-clamps next. The front fork is already set to max pre-load as well, but I'm not thrilled with the way it "pogos" over bumps now. I know that progressive springs and gold valves are the way to go, but I want to try everything else first. Maybe I can get some advice from Rick at Maximum Suzuki.
Regards, Herb
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back on subject, as far as GSXr cams go, if you are looking for performance---- do it.
The GSXr cams really wake up the B12 powerplant and open the powerband above 8000rpm without sacraficing too much lower midrange.
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I picked up my cams,the 89 750 cams,from Ron Ayers.
It cost me $300 for the pair. Part #,(w shipping)
12711-06B90 Intake cam GSXR750J
12721-17C90 Exhaust
I installed mine over the winter,so I didn't have back to back comparo rides. But it sure wakes up the top end where befor I was hitting a wall, it now revs on.
Dan
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After reading another post on here, I realized that if you are running GSXR cams, and the stock Bandit ignition, you wan't get the full benefit of the cams. The rev limiter on my stock ignition, was around 9,200, according to my digital shift light. The tach was around 600 rpms high. For the GSXR cams, you need to turn around 10,500, actual rpms. I have heard that there is a way to disable the stock rev limiter by cutting a wire that goes to the ignition, but I don't remember which one.
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I put the 89 gsxr 750 intake cam in my 2001. I would have to agree with the top end hit. I did not notice any change to the negative anywhere. I understand that the exhaust cam will hurt your midrange so I passed for now. I rode mine the day before and the day after for comparison. It isn't a rocket ship, but you can feel it pull to redline now when it used to slack off around 9k. Butt dyno says maybe 5hp on top, torque the same. $150 well spent.
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After reading another post on here, I realized that if you are running GSXR cams, and the stock Bandit ignition, you wan't get the full benefit of the cams. The rev limiter on my stock ignition, was around 9,200, according to my digital shift light. The tach was around 600 rpms high. For the GSXR cams, you need to turn around 10,500, actual rpms. I have heard that there is a way to disable the stock rev limiter by cutting a wire that goes to the ignition, but I don't remember which one.
If anyone knows the method in doing this, I'd like to do it with mine. Fast Larry or Dale might know, I could try there if know one here knows the details. Dan
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I have only hit mine once, in first gear. I was used to the motor laying down and it didnt. For the street, I like mine just the way it is. It pulls till I shift anyway, with no lazy spots. Have heard something about the gsf 600 blackbox setting the rev higher but I haven't heard of anyone trying it. I would think the ignition maps would be different.
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By the way, mine pulls to 10,500rpm on the dyno with stock ignition.
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By the way, mine pulls to 10,500rpm on the dyno with stock ignition.
After thinking about, It may have been 10,200 that I was hitting the rev-limiter instead of 9,200, that was about 5 years ago and my brain is getting old. :shock:
I do know that my 98 would not go to 10.5, I would hit the limiter before the shift light came on, set for 10,250 :motorsmile:
At 10,500, my engine is still making 154 RWHP, so I could probably go to 11,000.
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Ok, so sorry for being a newb, I'm tyring to learn as much as I can here, but I want to make sure I am understanding the point of swapping to gsxr cams.... I'm understanding that the lift is higher on the gsxr cam, allowing the valve to stay open longer which means that more fuel and air get in, causing a bigger expulsion in the cylinder therefore creating more power?
Hopefully I'm not WAY off on that.
But also, if you are going to swap cams, whats the good and bad about doing just the intake, as opposed to doing the intake and exhaust?
Thanks for your help!
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By doing just the intake you'll raise horsepower and not sacrifice as big of a hit to the lower & midrange zones. Doing both will give you the most peak power, but you'll loose some of the bottom end responsiveness.
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You are very close on the cam guess. The lift is about the same in this case, but the duration, or length of time the valve stays open is longer on the gsxr cams. If you are mechanically inclined and patient you can pull this off in a few hours.www.billsbikesnservice.com/cam.htm (http://www.billsbikesnservice.com/cam.htm) This will give you a tutorial on what is involved workwise.
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I used the parts search on ron ayers to cross reference the cams, I used the p/n for a 1989 gsxr750 intake cam, and it also cam up with cams of 88-93 gsxf1100's. So my question is, ARE the really the same? and has anyone ever put the katana cams in their bandit? Would I be ok doing this?
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I am looking at going down the cam path but am leaning towards an 88 GSXR750 intake cam and a GSXR1100 exhaust to not loose much mid range. Right of idle losses I can live with.
I also want to do a bit of head work and HI-comp pistons. No one seems to have them is stock bore anymore as I
1. Don't want to recouat the bores and
2. Intend to race it next year and need stock capacity.
I beleive the ones Dale had were (11-1) and supplied by JE and wonder if they still have the specs for them but I want 11.5.
I am aiming for better than 155 RWHP and over 100 ftlbs torque.
Lastly a set of of the FCR 39 carbs.
Hopefully this will then become scary enough.
:bandit:
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The bandit bores are not coated like the modern gsxr bores. Just a bore and hone and off you go. You can get the compression from milling the heads with the stock pistons if you can't find them, but I am sure someone still has them. Have you contacted JE directly?
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2. Intend to race it next year and need stock capacity.
What kind of racing.
For dragracing, there is no real substitute for size, but if you need to keep the same bore, try APE : http://www.aperaceparts.com/
They should be able to get any size piston that you want.
You will still have to hone the cylinders, as new rings do not seat well in old cyl bores.
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I beleive you can bump up the compression by swithing to a GSX-R head from the 750 slinshot motor as well. If you can find one, I think it just a bolt on. My racing(not this year) is on road course vs the strip, so I don't know if all the effort would be worth it. I think better lap X for me would just come through more seat time(and more $)(good tires)rather than trying for more HP.
I'm talking 1st Generation Bandit anyway, not sure about the 2nd or 3rd and of course the new water cooled is a different beast. Dan
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ALTHOUGH, IF I was going to put on another head, I would definatly have it poted 1st as long as I was going through all that anyway. I beleive you can get one from Kantana John or Lazer Mike off the Bandits R US list.
Dan