Best Oil?

[bandibull]

Assuming that we are talking about "particles" in the clutch,
then I would would think any piece of the clutch large
enough to cause scoring should be picked up by a good
multimedia filter.  

The 37k oil/filter change was a bit extreme.  This last time I went ahead
and changed the filter at 25k and simply poured the old oil back
in to the bike.  No doubt I'll leave this oil in the bike for another
25k then just change oil and filter.   Addititives should be at
50% at 50k.  I doubt the viscosity will have changed at all.

I only have 65k on the bike so have yet to see any bearing problems.
In fact I have yet to see any engine problems at all.
She starts first time, every time.
God, ain't the Bandit grand.

I am curious as to what a clutch patical would look like on an oil test.
Any ideas?  Iron? Silicon?

Oh Well, If I fry the engine do to my poor maintaince then I will
finally have an excuse to do my 1340cc rebuild.  
My bike, however insists on running well and even those pesky
Suzuki cams still look good after all this time running the A-oil.
Maybe I'll get to rebuild at 200k.  300k?

     

[BBurton]

That is amazing.... I have never heard of anyone going that far between oil and filter changes. I personally would never do it, even if I was using Amsoil or Mobil 1. I could see myself going to 6k or 7k using full synthetic, but I would change the filter every change. Sounds like it works for you, guess I just walk on the side of caution!! Never forget that when we all give our opinions, it's because we are experts....  

[bandibull]

Thats why I'm not a big fan of opinions.

I try to stick with observable facts.  This includes my past maintenence,
oil tests and even how well the bike runs.

In the previous post, the only opinion stated was that I thought that
an oil filter should filter out particles large enough to do serious
damage to an engine.  The fact that my engine still runs great at
65k miles help bolster this opinion, but its still an opinion.
By the way, thats a good multimedia filter that has high capacity
as well as minute filtering capability.  Many oil tests indicate
that the Amoil filter is one of these.  There are probably
others out there but none that I have actually tested myself.

Possibly someone can show good evidence that oil filters do not filter
out particles that might cause damage to an engine.

As to the 25,000 mile filter change, that comes directly from doing
oil tests every few thousand miles and watching the levels of
comtaminants.  They remained low and relatively steady until
after 25,000 miles.

     

[BBurton]

On the V-Strom board, oil is also a pretty hot topic. A guy who has been around for a while made a comment on oil yesterday. He said that you WILL NOT find any oils that are energy conserving above 10W40 weight. He said that the reason is because the whole purpose of energy conserving oils  "with friction modifiers" would be defeating the whole point of energy conserving in these higher weights. I went to the store and I couldn't find ANY oils that were energy conserving above 10W40, whether it was dino, blended or full synthetic. I checked pretty much all the brands on the shelf, which was alot!! Didn't know if anyone was aware of this, may be old news.  His info seems to be right on the money, as well as stating that the ONLY true synthetic oil on the market is Amsoil.
Others "claim" to be, but aren't.

[PaulVS]

as well as stating that the ONLY true synthetic oil on the market is Amsoil.
Others "claim" to be, but aren't.

He's totally F.O.S.

There are several Group IV-V synthetics, which includes, but certainly is not limited to Amsoil.  

Mobil 1, Royal Purple, Motul, and Redline are PAO Group IV-V

Of course Amsoil is like religion to some people.

[BBurton]

Mobil 1 is the worst company that claims to be full synthetic as well as Castrol. When conered, they will admit that they no longer manufacture "pure" synthetics. I will try to find the link to the website that proves that Mobil and Castrol aren't fully synthetic like they claim. Not that I care.... I think it is all good stuff, just that if I am paying the prices for a full synthetic, it sure as heck needs to be!! As far as the other companies that you named, they weren't listed as making bogus synthetics from the article that I read. Just the 2 giant oil companies.

[PaulVS]

Mobil 1 is the worst company that claims to be full synthetic as well as Castrol. When conered, they will admit that they no longer manufacture "pure" synthetics. I will try to find the link to the website that proves that Mobil and Castrol aren't fully synthetic like they claim. Not that I care.... I think it is all good stuff, just that if I am paying the prices for a full synthetic, it sure as heck needs to be!! As far as the other companies that you named, they weren't listed as making bogus synthetics from the article that I read. Just the 2 giant oil companies.

Sorry... wrong again.  

Mobil 1 IS a Group IV PAO based full synthetic.  Mobil SUED Castrol because Castrol was claiming they had "full synthetic" oil when it was actually just hydrocracked Group III dino oil.  

CASTROL AND MOBIL GO TO COURT TO BATTLE IT OUT:

Recently, Mobil accused Castrol of reformulating its synthetic by substituting other basestocks in place of its synthetic polyaphaolefins (PAO's). Castrol Syntec is a hydrocracked oil. That's right, Castrol has replaced the PAO synthetic base stock with hydroisomerized petroleum base stock. Hydrocracking, as it's called, is the highest level of petroleum refining. Castrol isn't even a synthetic yet Castrol ended up winning the battle when the National Advertising Division of the Council of Better Business Bureaus ruled that Castrol could still market its oil as "synthetic" despite their new formulation. Basically, they expanded the definition of synthetics to include Group III hydroprocessed petroleum oil. This high profile case took place because synthetics are recognized as the market's best hope for growth. Synthetic oil sales have outpaced petroleum oil sales by a wide margin and the gap continues to widen every year. Consumers are getting smarter and demand the best for their vehicles. Read the full story on the Castrol issue in our informative articles section. Additionally, just as soon as Castrol won this battle, several other major oil companies jumped in and came up with hydroprocessed motor oils of their own and labeled these products to be "100% synthetic", when they still are Group III hydroprocessed petroleum oils.

Since Mobil lost this lawsuit... everyone is claiming their Group III hydrocracked oil is "full synthetic".  Unlike Mobil 1 which actually is PAO based.

Castrol, Shell Rotella, and Valvoline, among others, have now jumped on the bandwagon and are putting out Group III hydrocracked oils on the market and labeling them "full synthetic".  Posers, in my opinion.  (In Germany, a judge ruled otherwise... and these companies can't sell their oil as "full synthetic".)

Check your facts.  I have a feeling the article you read was just someone's uneducated opinion.

[bandibull]

As far as true synthetic oils go Mobile1 and  Amsoil are about the
only reasonably priced true synthetics out there. They are both
class 4 PAO synthetics with just a bit of class 4 esters added
for seal maintenence.  The others like Royal Purple and Redline
and the like tend to be a more less even mix of PAO and Esters.
The fact that they have a large amount of ester base oil is why
they are obnoxiously expensive.  Personally I'm not a big fan of
large amount of esters in my oil.  First of all, they're just to expensive
for a minor amount of additional protections plus ester based
oils are much more prone to water contamination.

My "personal opinion" is that either Mobile1 or Amsoil are the
best bang for the buck, especially if you can force yourself to
extend your oil a change a least a few miles.  I certainly wouldn't
pay as much or more for a hydrocracked "synthetic" or a dino
oil with a picture of a bike on the can.

     

[Tetge]

Now I am confused.  I need to change the oil on my new '05 1200S and I followed the link in a post above to Mobil's site and they seemed to be saying that I needed to use MX4T since their other oils had friction modifiers which could lead to clutch slip.  I run regular Mobil 1 in my car and air compressor and MotoGuzzi but none of them have a clutch that runs in the common engine oil.  

Quote from the Mobil site:  

Okay. Let's start with Mobil 1 MX4T. What does it offer that Mobil 1 for cars does not?  
 
Mobil 1 MX4T is designed for sport bikes. Most of these bikes have multi-cylinder/multi-valve engines and use a common sump, which means the engine oil lubricates the engine, transmission and wet clutch. So unlike Mobil 1 for cars, Mobil 1 MX4T has no friction modifiers, which could lead to clutch slippage.

[BBurton]

I have never seen 10W40 weight oil with friction modifiers, it would kinda defeat the whole purpose of energy conserving. Think that I am gonna run Rotella T 15W40 for a couple thousand miles then switch over to Mobil 1 15W50 extended mileage.

[PaulVS]

I have never seen 10W40 weight oil with friction modifiers, it would kinda defeat the whole purpose of energy conserving. Think that I am gonna run Rotella T 15W40 for a couple thousand miles then switch over to Mobil 1 15W50 extended mileage.

Please don't take this the wrong way... but you're completely misinformed about this topic.

Friction modifiers are for Energy Conservation.  They also can cause clutch slippage in motorcycles.   If it says energy conserving in the circular spec label on the bottle... you don't want it in a motorcycle.

Most automobile oils that are 10w40 do have friction modifiers.  Most M/C specific 10w40 oils do not have friction modifiers.

There are Mobil 1 automobile oils that do not have Friction modifiers.  They are available in these formulas:

5w30 Extended Perfomance Gold Cap (new)
10w30 Extended Perfomance Gold Cap (new)
10w40 Extended Perfomance Gold Cap (new)
15w50 Extended Perfomance Gold Cap (new)
5w40  Truck & SUV Formula

All of the above are Group IV PAO-based FULL synthetics, and will work great in a Bandit... also a lot cheaper than Mobil 1 MX4T motorcycle formula.  The extra ingredients in the MX4T are almost insignificant.

Once again... generally the only TRUE Group IV synthetics you'll see at the auto parts stores or Wal-Mart, etc... are Mobil 1, Amsoil, and occassionally Royal Purple.  

The others that call themselves 'fully synthetic' (Castrol, Pennzoil, Shell Rotella, etc) are all just 'modified' Group III.  

Hope we can put this baby to bed now.  

[BBurton]

Most automobile oils that are 10w40 do have friction modifiers. Most M/C specific 10w40 oils do not have friction modifiers.

I think that you are confusing yourself with 10W30, I have never seen a car oil in 10W40 weight be energy conserving. Go to any autoparts store and let me know if you find any!!

By the way....dude, you need to chill out!! Seems that you are the OIL GOD :blahblah: You misunderstood what I was saying, I know what energy conserving oil is, and what the effects can be on wet clutch bikes. I was simply saying that I have never seen an oil that was energy conserving in 10W40 weight and higher, thus meaning that they DON'T have friction modifiers! Having thick oils like 10W40, 15W40 and 20W50 will not be conserving energy and won't have friction modifiers. I am not an oil expert, never claimed to be and don't obviously know everything. I just take the info from what others riders and myself have experienced. Being that the Bandit is oil cooled, I would and DID when I had a Bandit, run 15W40 and thicker in warm weather and 10W40 at Fall and Winter. My Strom is both liquid and oil cooled, engine runs really good on 10W40 but a large majority of Strom riders use 15W40 and higher. ALL oil topics at the V-Strom forum are banned, too many opinions and experts saying that they know what is best. Keep the oil non energy conserving and keep it clean, our bikes should run for a long time.

[Red01]

ALL oil topics at the V-Strom forum are banned

Lots of boards have done that... sometimes I think it's a good policy, but discussion is good - as long as everyone stays civil.

OMG, look at the time... I think it's beer:30!      

[PitterB4]

OMG, look at the time... I think it's beer:30!      

That time zone thing always gets me!  It's already bourbon:30 here on the East Coast!

[Red01]

Hey, I can't push it THAT hard... I'm still @ work...  

(j/k - for the public's safety, I do NOT drink @ work.)