Bandit Alley
MODEL SPECIFIC => SUZUKI BANDIT 600 thru 1200 - AIR/OIL COOLED TECHNICAL => Topic started by: ShadowWolf on March 24, 2005, 01:22:49 AM
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Choosing and sticking with an oil for my bike is becoming a daunting task. Everywhere I read it's a debate between synthetic and petroleum based. I'm new to motorcycles and just got my first bike(96' B6) and I will be doing my own oil changes so I would like to know what's the best oil to use? I heard some things about clutches slipping if you use a certain type of synthetic.
Drop some names fellas.....it would be greatly appreciated. Thanks again.
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Shell Rotella 15W40 non synthetic
Got 40K on this with Emgo filters on my TL no problems. Nearly 10K of this on the bandit no problems.
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The proverbial can of worms... :duh:
Oh well, we haven't had this question in a while, so I guess we're overdue.
The following is my person opinion.
Synth isn't worth it if you're not trying to extend drain intervals.
Motorcycle specific oils are hype.
Auto oils are fine as long as you stay away from "EC" (Energy Conserving) labeled oils. Luckily, few 10w40 or heavier oils are.
Diesel rated oils are great and stand the shear loads encountered in the gearbox.
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Actually I have never known this to be much of a problem. Change your oil regularly and don't buy the bottom grade. However, my son is an inveterate car nut who does little else. He has won me over to even modest cost synthetics. He says that he has researched much data where teardowns of car engines on synthetic oils only still show some to most of the cylinder "hone marks" of original specs. That = compression and on spec bearings, chains etc. You know, when you look at the big picture, the price of oil is peanuts.
Now I know I will sound like a grandpa when I say the following.
With reasonable maintenance, bikes don't wear out... they crash out. Go to any bike salvage yard and keep your hat in hand and be ready for tears. You will see many bikes badly rusted and abused and a Great Many in parts because that's all that was left.
Mike from the two stroke era, (YRD350, Kaw H2 750), & asst Dukes)
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One thing to be wary of when choosing a synthetic oil for a Bandit - or many other bikes... how compatible is it with a wet clutch.
Some (many?) synthetics will promote clutch slippage, so when choosing one, be sure it's one that's been tried by others and found to be OK.
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One thing to be wary of when choosing a synthetic oil for a Bandit - or many other bikes... how compatible is it with a wet clutch.
Some (many?) synthetics will promote clutch slippage, so when choosing one, be sure it's one that's been tried by others and found to be OK.
I actually found a thread here and this one guy uses Castrol GTX 10-40 and he says it's been fine for him with no clutch slippage. I'll try it out and see what happens. This site is awesome btw!
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Considering the lube oil is the tranny, engine, coolining medium for the Bandit, a synthetic will withstand the stress and beating better than a regular mineral based oil.
A couple of things though. Only shift to synth AFTER the engine is broken in. Also, use a motorcycle specific synth with low friction modifiers.
I use Silkolene Synth Racing Oil
My $00.02's
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I put over 20K hard miles on my B12. All of it was with synthetic oil
Mobil-1 10-40
Spectro Golden 10-40
Shell Rotella T 5-40 (my favorite)
I have never had a problem. No oil leak, no clutch slip.... nothing.
Just smooth running, great power, good fuel economy, and peace of mind.
Most Wal-Marts stock the Shell Rotella T synthetic in 1 gallon jugs. Perfect for a 4qt oil change. And the price can't be beat at $10.50
Used to be $12.89, but the price went down last time I bought.
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As subject to opinion as motor oil choice is the issue of when to begin running synth oil in a new engine. I bought a new Toyota Camry in 2003 and had the dealer change the oil to Mobil 1 before I drove it off the lot. At 35,000 miles it doesn't use a drop between changes. Not the first time I've run it in a brand new engine, nor does it seem to bother many engines (think Corvette, etc.) which come from the factory with synth right out of the box. Come to think of it, is there anyone out there who has 1st-hand personal knowledge of or experience with a problem caused by running synth in a brand new engine? Or is this whole issue just another urban legend?
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You can break in an engine with synthetic oil -- Corvettes, Aston-Martins and Porches come with Mobil 1 synthetic in the crankcase.
I have changed to Mobil 1 on ALL my bikes since 1983 ( 8 bikes) at the first oil change interval -- usually about 400-500 miles. No problems with clutch slippage with the 15W-50 weight oil as it's NOT energy conserving and does NOT contain friction modifiers.
A fairly new Mobil 1 product, Truck & SUV oil in a 5W-40 weight, is my choice beginning this year, mostly due to the fact it carries the highest diesel and gas ratings of CI-4 and SL respectively. The Total Base Number (TBN) is 12 which should allow long drain periods with the oil retaining antacid properties.
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Anybody try Castrol Syntech? It's full synthetic. I'm having trouble finding Mobil 1 in 10w-40, so I am trying the Castrol
And a word of advice: order your oil filters in advance of needing an oil change if you want K&N filters. They're a bear to find in stock, at least here in K-town. I just went with the STP SMO-18 this time.
This looks pretty authoritative:all about (motorcycle) oils (http://motorcycleinfo.calsci.com/Oils1.html#Oil). I see a lot of folks speak highly of the Rotella Synthetic (diesel engine) oils for m/c applications.
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Here's the info and Poll results from the old BBS.
Oil BBS Member Poll
Amsoil 9%
Castrol 23%
Golden Spectro 4%
Mobil 1 23%
Shell Rotella 23%
Valvoline 9%
For research purposes:
Motorcycle Motor Oil
http://www.gis.net/~manjo/motorcycle_motor_oil.htm[/list]
More Than You Ever Wanted to Know About Motor Oil
http://www.vtr.org/maintain/oil-overview.html[/list]
Motorcycle Oils vs. Automotive Oils
http://www.xs11.com/stories/mcnoil94.htm[/list]
How to read the chart:
Viscosity Index
The higher the number the better. This is one major property of an oil that keeps your bearings happy. It is not an indication of how well the oil resists thermal breakdown.
Flash point
The higher the flash point the better. The lower the flash point the greater tendency for the oil to suffer vaporization loss at high temperatures and to burn off on hot cylinder walls and pistons.
Pour point
The lower the pour point the better. 5 degrees F above the point at which a chilled oil shows no movement at the surface for 5 seconds when inclined. This measurement is especially important for oils used in the winter.
% sulfated ash
Look for oils with a low ash content.
How much solid material is left when the oil burns. A high ash content will tend to form more sludge and deposits in the engine. Low ash content also seems to promote long valve life.
% zinc
is the amount of zinc used as an extreme pressure, anti- wear additive. The zinc is only used when there is actual metal to metal contact in the engine. Hopefully the oil will do its job and this will rarely occur, but if it does, the zinc compounds react with the metal to prevent scuffing and wear. A level of .11% is enough to protect an automobile engine for the extended oil drain interval, under normal use. Those of you with high revving, air cooled motorcycles or turbo charged cars or bikes might want to look at the oils with the higher zinc content. More doesn't give you better protection, it gives you longer protection if the rate of metal to metal contact is abnormally high. High zinc content can lead to deposit formation and plug fouling.
(http://banditalley.com/tech/faqs/oil/oil1.JPG)
(http://banditalley.com/tech/faqs/oil/oil2.JPG)
(http://banditalley.com/tech/faqs/oil/oil3.JPG)
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I recently switched to Mobil 1 MX4T, because I heard such good things. I have noticed my engine runs a bit better, and shifting is a bit easier. However, I had a bit of clutch slippage at 7500 rpm in second gear once while riding two up.
Then again, maybe my the oil isn't to blame, I weight 300lbs + 120lbs passenger. :duh:
Thats my $.02!
jesse :?:
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Mobil 1 15W50 (automotive grade) works great and is not that expensive. If you are using any kind of 'motorcycle specific' oil, you are wasting your money, IMO. You might get slightly better protection but it won't be noticable in 100 thousand miles of normal riding. I'll have a new bike by then! :motorsmile:
The oil companies love getting into your head (and pocket books) with this stuff. Don't let em! I was lured into buying Amsoil MS oil once and ran it for quite a while. My cams still went to hell.
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Mobil 1 15W50 (automotive grade) works great and is not that expensive. If you are using any kind of 'motorcycle specific' oil, you are wasting your money, IMO. You might get slightly better protection but it won't be noticable in 100 thousand miles of normal riding. I'll have a new bike by then! :motorsmile:
The oil companies love getting into your head (and pocket books) with this stuff. Don't let em! I was lured into buying Amsoil MS oil once and ran it for quite a while. My cams still went to hell.
Mobil 1 15w50 huh wow. I will keep that in mind. Right now I'm leaning towards the Castrol GTX 10w40 but we'll see what happens. I have to say again there are alot of cool people on this site. Very friendly and willing to help people out with advice. I'll be posting here for a long time :)
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Oh btw TerreBandit those are some very clean looking bikes ya got there pawtner! :) I like.
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Oh btw TerreBandit those are some very clean looking bikes ya got there pawtner! :) I like.
Nice of you to say!!! Thank you!
Hey, that Castrol GTX dino oil works good too. I used 20W50 because I live in TX where it is HOT. The heavier weight oils are also better for the Tranny, so they say!
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I use Suzuki 10-40 motorcycle oil right from the dealer. He usually cuts me a break if I buy it a case at a time(about 2.50 a qt). I use Emgo filters and change it every 2000-2500 miles and have had no issues in 12000 miles. This is not alot of miles so I don't know about long term but I have no clutch slippage even when I'm 2up and twisting it hard. Had a Yamaha Seca 550 years ago and used 20-50 Castrol. Clutch slipped like hell! Didn't know squat about cycles at the time so I got rid of it. Probably just the wrong oil. FWIW a friend of mine builds race engines for drag cars. His opinion is that most any oil is OK with regular maintenance for most any vehicle but he says when switching oils use a motor flush type product to be sure all of one brand is out before putting in the new. Different oils apparently use different additives and when mixed together can give you problems when mixed. REGULAR OIL CHANGES are probably the most important and the rest is BS in my opinion. :beers:
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Zook 10-40 with an Emgo filter. That just goes to show ya what wonderful engines we have here! (no offense intended)
On the other end of the spectrum we have guys like me running Amsoil 10w-40 with Puralator filters (and I am aware that some swear that the Amsoil has led to the early demise of their cam lobes) because that is the absolute smoothest the thing has ever shifted and run.
Kinda makes me think that you could run it with wesson oil in the sump and toilet paper in the filter housing and it would still outlast most rider's interest in the bike.
These oil threads are reallly like talking about vitamin suppliment for the bike, there will never be a consensus. Seems like if you use some kind off oil and change it now and then you will be fine (unless you really have one of the dread "oil burners" in whaich case you won't be fine until you get new pistons).
Steve :motorsmile:
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I have been using Mobil 1 MX4T 10w40 since new and have no complaints.
This stuff is expensive but I have worked out a beer for oil deal with my local Alcoholic bulk fuel dealer who brings in the stuff for me.
He empties my expense account, I empty his warehouse. I think someone in Germany eventually gets the bill.
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i use Klotz 20-50 yes it`s for bikes . the main reason you ask ??? the smell .lol it`s not cheap but ive allways had good luck with it so i stick with it .M :motorsmile:
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I've been using Rotella T 5w-40 no probelms..
JJ
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Mobil Delvac 1300 super is great oil, as well as Valvolines new motorcycle oil. The Valvoline is also a great price, I would never waste my money on synthetic, maybe a blend though. :motorsmile:
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I would never waste my money on synthetic
It's not a waste bud, It's a measure of what you can afford and what it is worth to you. With the bikes and the years and the miles that I've been through I am very satisfied with my choice.
For you, it might be a waste.
Steve
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Well, I guess this is why the V-Strom BBS doesn't allow anymore threads on oil. There was over 1300 replies in less than a week and there still was no flat out winner. The only truth is that todays oils are all pretty good stuff, its all in how they are marketed and pushed. I don't know how many articles that I have read from quote "experts" that say that motorcycle oil is a waste of money "including synthetic". I have a buddy that had an old chevy truck for years, he put over 225,000 miles in that truck without a drop of synthetic. And trust me, this truck wasn't babied at all. Hauled wood, gravel and commuted back from fort Bragg for years. Being consistent and using good quality oils and changing filters after every change is more than good enough. We all have such varying opinions because these are our baby's and we want them to last a long time. I've heard so many different types of maintenance products and procedures between boards that I think it is great. Todays bikes are made very well, especially the engines and I believe that they can withstand alot of abuse before failing on us. I pretty much follow the factory recommendations and just fine tune from there. I doubt that a manufacturer is gonna have you do something that is going to have them shelling out big bucks to either repair or replace our bikes!! Nuff said... :blahblah:
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MOst people never put enough miles on their bike to find
out if their maintanence is helping or hurting.
Under normal conditions, changing oil and filter every 2k miles.
you can pretty much use whatever brand of oil K-mart has on sale.
Your bike will last as long and run as well as the next guys.
There are a few circumstances where you might want to step up
to a true PAO synthetic like Amsoil or Mobile1, especially when
they're cheaper than the "motorcycle oils."
For instance:
If you commonly start your bike when there are icecycles hanging
from your speedometer. (I do)
If you've ever cracked an oil line and had to ride home with
maybe two quarts of oil left in the engine. (I did)
If you just like they way your bike shifts when using a
particular brand of oil. (I actually don't care but others here do)
If you put 15 or 20 thousand miles a year on your bike and
really dislike changing your oil ever 3 weeks. (I DOOOOO!!!!)
And if you're a cheap SOB. (I AM)
I had 37000 miles on my oil and filter at the last change though
if truth be told the filter probably should have been changed
somewhere between 25k and 30k. Oil tests showed the oil
to be in excellent shape(viscosity essentially unchanged) and
only a couple of comtaminant levels hitting border line because
I pushed the filter a bit to far.
Now if you change your oil every 2k then you don't really need
an oil this good. On the other hand if you're paying much more
than $20 for a gallon of dino oil and a filter then you're probably
getting ripped off.
:lol: :grin: :lol:
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No matter what oil you use, don't extend your oil change interval on a motorcycle. The paticals from the clutch will score the crankshaft and bearings if it is left in to long. I change oil and filter more frequentlly than 3000 miles, maybe more like 1500 miles.
Actually over the last 4 or 5 years, I average changing oil about every 100 miles, but that is on a dragbike. I used Castrol GTX 10-40. I now use Mobil 1 10-40 on the street, and I want go 1500 miles in 6 months.
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I can't vouch for other bikes... but I recommend everyone try Mobil 1 (the kind without friction modifiers) at least once if you have a Bandit 600 or 1200.
I used Valvoline M/C specific oil and my shifting was clunky and the engine 'ticked' like crazy when it was cooling down. Switched to Mobil 1 and Voila! Shifting is like butter, and the engine has ZERO tick when it's cooling down. That tells me it's running cooler.
Like I said... try it ONCE. How much do you have to lose? 10 extra dollars?
(Walmart has 5 qt. jugs for $19.82)
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Which Mobil 1 oil are you talking about, there are several?
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Which Mobil 1 oil are you talking about, there are several?
This one: http://www.mobil1.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Oils/Mobil_1_Extended_Performance_10W-40.aspx
Or this one: http://www.mobil1.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Oils/Mobil_1_Truck_SUV_5W-40.aspx
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Assuming that we are talking about "particles" in the clutch,
then I would would think any piece of the clutch large
enough to cause scoring should be picked up by a good
multimedia filter.
The 37k oil/filter change was a bit extreme. This last time I went ahead
and changed the filter at 25k and simply poured the old oil back
in to the bike. No doubt I'll leave this oil in the bike for another
25k then just change oil and filter. Addititives should be at
50% at 50k. I doubt the viscosity will have changed at all.
I only have 65k on the bike so have yet to see any bearing problems.
In fact I have yet to see any engine problems at all.
She starts first time, every time.
God, ain't the Bandit grand.
I am curious as to what a clutch patical would look like on an oil test.
Any ideas? Iron? Silicon?
Oh Well, If I fry the engine do to my poor maintaince then I will
finally have an excuse to do my 1340cc rebuild.
My bike, however insists on running well and even those pesky
Suzuki cams still look good after all this time running the A-oil.
Maybe I'll get to rebuild at 200k. 300k?
:lol: :beers: :lol:
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That is amazing.... I have never heard of anyone going that far between oil and filter changes. I personally would never do it, even if I was using Amsoil or Mobil 1. I could see myself going to 6k or 7k using full synthetic, but I would change the filter every change. Sounds like it works for you, guess I just walk on the side of caution!! Never forget that when we all give our opinions, it's because we are experts.... :bs: :lol:
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Thats why I'm not a big fan of opinions.
I try to stick with observable facts. This includes my past maintenence,
oil tests and even how well the bike runs.
In the previous post, the only opinion stated was that I thought that
an oil filter should filter out particles large enough to do serious
damage to an engine. The fact that my engine still runs great at
65k miles help bolster this opinion, but its still an opinion.
By the way, thats a good multimedia filter that has high capacity
as well as minute filtering capability. Many oil tests indicate
that the Amoil filter is one of these. There are probably
others out there but none that I have actually tested myself.
Possibly someone can show good evidence that oil filters do not filter
out particles that might cause damage to an engine.
As to the 25,000 mile filter change, that comes directly from doing
oil tests every few thousand miles and watching the levels of
comtaminants. They remained low and relatively steady until
after 25,000 miles.
:lol: :beers: :lol:
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On the V-Strom board, oil is also a pretty hot topic. A guy who has been around for a while made a comment on oil yesterday. He said that you WILL NOT find any oils that are energy conserving above 10W40 weight. He said that the reason is because the whole purpose of energy conserving oils "with friction modifiers" would be defeating the whole point of energy conserving in these higher weights. I went to the store and I couldn't find ANY oils that were energy conserving above 10W40, whether it was dino, blended or full synthetic. I checked pretty much all the brands on the shelf, which was alot!! Didn't know if anyone was aware of this, may be old news. :duh: His info seems to be right on the money, as well as stating that the ONLY true synthetic oil on the market is Amsoil.
Others "claim" to be, but aren't. :shock:
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as well as stating that the ONLY true synthetic oil on the market is Amsoil.
Others "claim" to be, but aren't. :shock:
He's totally F.O.S.
There are several Group IV-V synthetics, which includes, but certainly is not limited to Amsoil.
Mobil 1, Royal Purple, Motul, and Redline are PAO Group IV-V
Of course Amsoil is like religion to some people.
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Mobil 1 is the worst company that claims to be full synthetic as well as Castrol. When conered, they will admit that they no longer manufacture "pure" synthetics. I will try to find the link to the website that proves that Mobil and Castrol aren't fully synthetic like they claim. Not that I care.... I think it is all good stuff, just that if I am paying the prices for a full synthetic, it sure as heck needs to be!! :roll: As far as the other companies that you named, they weren't listed as making bogus synthetics from the article that I read. Just the 2 giant oil companies.
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Mobil 1 is the worst company that claims to be full synthetic as well as Castrol. When conered, they will admit that they no longer manufacture "pure" synthetics. I will try to find the link to the website that proves that Mobil and Castrol aren't fully synthetic like they claim. Not that I care.... I think it is all good stuff, just that if I am paying the prices for a full synthetic, it sure as heck needs to be!! :roll: As far as the other companies that you named, they weren't listed as making bogus synthetics from the article that I read. Just the 2 giant oil companies.
Sorry... wrong again.
Mobil 1 IS a Group IV PAO based full synthetic. Mobil SUED Castrol because Castrol was claiming they had "full synthetic" oil when it was actually just hydrocracked Group III dino oil.
CASTROL AND MOBIL GO TO COURT TO BATTLE IT OUT:
Recently, Mobil accused Castrol of reformulating its synthetic by substituting other basestocks in place of its synthetic polyaphaolefins (PAO's). Castrol Syntec is a hydrocracked oil. That's right, Castrol has replaced the PAO synthetic base stock with hydroisomerized petroleum base stock. Hydrocracking, as it's called, is the highest level of petroleum refining. Castrol isn't even a synthetic yet Castrol ended up winning the battle when the National Advertising Division of the Council of Better Business Bureaus ruled that Castrol could still market its oil as "synthetic" despite their new formulation. Basically, they expanded the definition of synthetics to include Group III hydroprocessed petroleum oil. This high profile case took place because synthetics are recognized as the market's best hope for growth. Synthetic oil sales have outpaced petroleum oil sales by a wide margin and the gap continues to widen every year. Consumers are getting smarter and demand the best for their vehicles. Read the full story on the Castrol issue in our informative articles section. Additionally, just as soon as Castrol won this battle, several other major oil companies jumped in and came up with hydroprocessed motor oils of their own and labeled these products to be "100% synthetic", when they still are Group III hydroprocessed petroleum oils.
Since Mobil lost this lawsuit... everyone is claiming their Group III hydrocracked oil is "full synthetic". Unlike Mobil 1 which actually is PAO based.
Castrol, Shell Rotella, and Valvoline, among others, have now jumped on the bandwagon and are putting out Group III hydrocracked oils on the market and labeling them "full synthetic". Posers, in my opinion. (In Germany, a judge ruled otherwise... and these companies can't sell their oil as "full synthetic".)
Check your facts. I have a feeling the article you read was just someone's uneducated opinion.
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As far as true synthetic oils go Mobile1 and Amsoil are about the
only reasonably priced true synthetics out there. They are both
class 4 PAO synthetics with just a bit of class 4 esters added
for seal maintenence. The others like Royal Purple and Redline
and the like tend to be a more less even mix of PAO and Esters.
The fact that they have a large amount of ester base oil is why
they are obnoxiously expensive. Personally I'm not a big fan of
large amount of esters in my oil. First of all, they're just to expensive
for a minor amount of additional protections plus ester based
oils are much more prone to water contamination.
My "personal opinion" is that either Mobile1 or Amsoil are the
best bang for the buck, especially if you can force yourself to
extend your oil a change a least a few miles. I certainly wouldn't
pay as much or more for a hydrocracked "synthetic" or a dino
oil with a picture of a bike on the can.
:lol: :beers: :lol:
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Now I am confused. I need to change the oil on my new '05 1200S and I followed the link in a post above to Mobil's site and they seemed to be saying that I needed to use MX4T since their other oils had friction modifiers which could lead to clutch slip. I run regular Mobil 1 in my car and air compressor and MotoGuzzi but none of them have a clutch that runs in the common engine oil.
Quote from the Mobil site:
Okay. Let's start with Mobil 1 MX4T. What does it offer that Mobil 1 for cars does not?
Mobil 1 MX4T is designed for sport bikes. Most of these bikes have multi-cylinder/multi-valve engines and use a common sump, which means the engine oil lubricates the engine, transmission and wet clutch. So unlike Mobil 1 for cars, Mobil 1 MX4T has no friction modifiers, which could lead to clutch slippage.
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I have never seen 10W40 weight oil with friction modifiers, it would kinda defeat the whole purpose of energy conserving. :grin: Think that I am gonna run Rotella T 15W40 for a couple thousand miles then switch over to Mobil 1 15W50 extended mileage.
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I have never seen 10W40 weight oil with friction modifiers, it would kinda defeat the whole purpose of energy conserving. :grin: Think that I am gonna run Rotella T 15W40 for a couple thousand miles then switch over to Mobil 1 15W50 extended mileage.
Please don't take this the wrong way... but you're completely misinformed about this topic.
Friction modifiers are for Energy Conservation. They also can cause clutch slippage in motorcycles. If it says energy conserving in the circular spec label on the bottle... you don't want it in a motorcycle.
Most automobile oils that are 10w40 do have friction modifiers. Most M/C specific 10w40 oils do not have friction modifiers.
There are Mobil 1 automobile oils that do not have Friction modifiers. They are available in these formulas:
5w30 Extended Perfomance Gold Cap (new)
10w30 Extended Perfomance Gold Cap (new)
10w40 Extended Perfomance Gold Cap (new)
15w50 Extended Perfomance Gold Cap (new)
5w40 Truck & SUV Formula
All of the above are Group IV PAO-based FULL synthetics, and will work great in a Bandit... also a lot cheaper than Mobil 1 MX4T motorcycle formula. The extra ingredients in the MX4T are almost insignificant.
Once again... generally the only TRUE Group IV synthetics you'll see at the auto parts stores or Wal-Mart, etc... are Mobil 1, Amsoil, and occassionally Royal Purple.
The others that call themselves 'fully synthetic' (Castrol, Pennzoil, Shell Rotella, etc) are all just 'modified' Group III.
Hope we can put this baby to bed now. :wink:
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Most automobile oils that are 10w40 do have friction modifiers. Most M/C specific 10w40 oils do not have friction modifiers.
I think that you are confusing yourself with 10W30, I have never seen a car oil in 10W40 weight be energy conserving. Go to any autoparts store and let me know if you find any!! :lol:
By the way....dude, you need to chill out!! Seems that you are the OIL GOD :blahblah: You misunderstood what I was saying, I know what energy conserving oil is, and what the effects can be on wet clutch bikes. I was simply saying that I have never seen an oil that was energy conserving in 10W40 weight and higher, thus meaning that they DON'T have friction modifiers! Having thick oils like 10W40, 15W40 and 20W50 will not be conserving energy and won't have friction modifiers. I am not an oil expert, never claimed to be and don't obviously know everything. :roll: I just take the info from what others riders and myself have experienced. Being that the Bandit is oil cooled, I would and DID when I had a Bandit, run 15W40 and thicker in warm weather and 10W40 at Fall and Winter. My Strom is both liquid and oil cooled, engine runs really good on 10W40 but a large majority of Strom riders use 15W40 and higher. ALL oil topics at the V-Strom forum are banned, too many opinions and experts saying that they know what is best. Keep the oil non energy conserving and keep it clean, our bikes should run for a long time. :beers:
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ALL oil topics at the V-Strom forum are banned
Lots of boards have done that... sometimes I think it's a good policy, but discussion is good - as long as everyone stays civil.
OMG, look at the time... I think it's beer:30! :bigok: :beers: :motorsmile:
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OMG, look at the time... I think it's beer:30! :bigok: :beers: :motorsmile:
That time zone thing always gets me! It's already bourbon:30 here on the East Coast!
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Hey, I can't push it THAT hard... I'm still @ work... :roll:
(j/k - for the public's safety, I do NOT drink @ work.)
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BBurton, I'm lost trying to follow this thread.
Oil is either the hot topic or the banned topic on your other board, maybe it is the hottest banned topic? :stickpoke:
And you would never waste money on synthetic oil, but you are going to run Mobil 1 in the future?
I must concede that I was reading on "another board" :shock: and someone there posted some info that upped my opinion of an Emgo filter. I guess they are actually supposed to be well made.
I believe that we are all open to changing our minds on a given issue, no fault there. And as far as choice of maintenance supplies in our personal vehicles goes I still believe that it comes down to what you can afford and what you percieve as the benefit. Right now I use synthetics in a couple of vehicles. When I retire (many years from now) I may decide that I really don't give a shit if my ride outlives me and choose to spend my limited income on myself instead of my machines, they may use dyno oil so that I can run on beef. In the meanwhile I have actually observed and enjoy benefits of my choice.
I just don't see where any particular party in this conversation needs to "chill" more than any other. I kinda like facts and information, that is the big reason I log on.
I sure hope that we can be responsible enough on this board that we retain the privilidge of being able to discuss something so risque as motor oil.
Tire inflation pressure, now there is a controversial issue!
Steve
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His info seems to be right on the money, as well as stating that the ONLY true synthetic oil on the market is Amsoil.
Others "claim" to be, but aren't.
Mobil 1 is the worst company that claims to be full synthetic as well as Castrol. When conered, they will admit that they no longer manufacture "pure" synthetics.
I'm not trying to act superior... my point was you are putting out mis-information... the things you said above are simply flat-out 100% wrong.
I will try to find the link to the website that proves that Mobil and Castrol aren't fully synthetic like they claim.
Please do that.
In actual fact, Castrol, Shell Rotella, Pennzoil and others are the true frauds in the synthetic oil business. Why do you think they cost half as much as Mobil 1 or Amsoil?
Call Mobil's toll-free number and ask them if their fully synthetic oils are Group IV PAO-Based. Then call Castrol, Pennzoil, Valvoline and Shell... and try to get a straight answer out of them on the same question about their 'fully synthetics'.
Read my previous post about the Mobil Vs. Castrol lawsuit if you haven't yet. I give credit to Mobil for still making a true Group IV synthetic when they could just 'fake it' like everybody else.
I have never seen 10W40 weight oil with friction modifiers, it would kinda defeat the whole purpose of energy conserving.
Your above quote is interpreted by me to mean that you're saying friction modifiers defeat the purpose of energy conserving... when in fact they are the reason for 'energy conserving' to be on the label.
And as Steve mentioned above... you seem to contradict yourself on occassion.
I would never waste my money on synthetic.
Think that I am gonna run Rotella T 15W40 for a couple thousand miles then switch over to Mobil 1 15W50 extended mileage.
Finally... I would have trusted Amsoil... up until the last year or so when I heard about several people who used it in a Bandit and ended up with pitted cam lobes. (Others on this website will verify this information.) I have never heard of this happening with Mobil 1. Part of it may be due to the cheapo hardening process used in manufacturing Bandit cams... but I'm not taking any chances.
No offense intended, BB. I just don't think people should be misinformed. And I think it's ridiculous for people to make claims about Mobil 1 for OR against... when they've never even tried it themselves. I suggest you go out on a limb... drop the $20 for a 5 qt. jug of Mobil 1 at Wal-Mart... and then tell us how you feel about it.
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I have never seen 10W40 weight oil with friction modifiers, it would kinda defeat the whole purpose of energy conserving.
Your above quote is interpreted by me to mean that you're saying friction modifiers defeat the purpose of energy conserving... when in fact they are the reason for 'energy conserving' to be on the label.
How I read that was he's saying is that 10W40 is too heavy of an oil to be a reasonable choice in an energy conserving (EC) rated oil.
I haven't looked for the EC label lately on multiple brands. Last time I did was a couple years ago. At that time there were no EC rated 10W40 oils on the shelves I saw.
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How I read that was he's saying is that 10W40 is too heavy of an oil to be a reasonable choice in an energy conserving (EC) rated oil.
I agree. Most oils over 30w are not EC rated. Just wasn't the clearest way to put it, IMHO.
Again... no offense intended. It's a confusing subject. :wink:
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No offense intended, BB. I just don't think people should be misinformed. And I think it's ridiculous for people to make claims about Mobil 1 for OR against... when they've never even tried it themselves. I suggest you go out on a limb... drop the $20 for a 5 qt. jug of Mobil 1 at Wal-Mart... and then tell us how you feel about it.
Not trying to ruffle anyones feathers.... I have changed my mind to a degree about synthetic oils. I have talked to many bikers up at bike night who have used dino, blend and fully syn. Most have agreed to advantages in quieter engines and smoother shifting with the synthetics. They said that they don't know how much better that syn actually is for the engine, but that it has its advantages. Thus.... my change in my opinion on synthetic oils. I am gonna try some in the near future. I did say earlier that I thought that synthetic was a waste of money, I was leaning more toward the motorcycle oil prices. Now that I have good info on using car oil instead of moto oil, I have changed my tune!!! :grin: RED01 was correct in what I was trying to say about energy conserving oils. Anything higher than 10W30 isn't conserving energy and isn't supposed to have friction modifiers. I had read about Mobil 1 not being a true synthetic on one of the Amsoil dealer websites, obviously he must have been either telling lies or trying to pull the wool over my eyes. I had heard a while back that Penzoil, valvoline, Castrol etc... wasn't fully syn. He said that Mobil 1 had gone that route too, just not to the same degree. :roll: I love good info in writing too, obviously some people are wrong!! I didn't mean any offense about anything either!! :wink:
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Tire inflation pressure, now there is a controversial issue!
That is a good one!! I just usually go right to the top of the tire spec, any good recommendations for a tire gauge that is really accurate. Sorry about getting off topic... couldn't resist! :lol:
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Shell vsx 4.After pulling motor down for performance rebuild at 30,000km and finding NO measurable wear on any bearing surface.Bike is flogged at regular intervals.Will continue to use .No clutch slip,gsxr 1100 clutch though.
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Well, this is a topic that will probably never be agreed upon by everyone. :grin:
I am not a seasoned rider, but I do believe in synthetic oil superiority from my automotive knowledge, and I am trying to learn as much about bike use as I can.
I heard that the old Mobil 1 "Red Cap" was the oil to use in a bike. However, Mobil changed the oil and cap color (now Gold Cap). My seasoned bike friends are not willing to try it in their bikes, so I decided to take one for the team. I have 200 miles since my oil change using Mobil 1 Gold Cap and no noticeable difference.
I am neither endorsing or discouraging the usage of this oil.....I am simply letting everyone know what I am trying and the results I have found so far. :motorsmile:
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The last time I changed my oil, I went to Valvoline MC oil from the Suzuki brand and I have noticed some seriously clunky shifting. I never cared a bit about what oil I used. I always figured it didn't matter if I changed it regularly. Well, it does matter I guess. Back to Suzuki oil for me. Just my $.02.
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A couple of years ago one of the local Aussie bike mags dedicated a few pages to the question of Which Oil Should I Use. They went throught the pros and cons of Synthetic, Mineral, Semi Synthetic, Car specific oil, Bike specific oil.
At the end of the article the writer said
Bike specific oil is highly recommended, but, regardless of which oil you use, fresh is best.