Author Topic: Brake rotor problems -- pulsating brakes. (Read 6558 times)

ray nielsen · « **on:** October 18, 2005, 11:34:18 AM »

My 2003 Bandit 1200 has recently developed pulsating front brakes. I measured the front rotors to find a thickness variation of over 0.002" at different spots on the rotor. (In the automotive world a maximum thickness variation of 0.0005" is considered optimal after rotor refinishing -- any more is usually noticeable as a pulsation.)

Replacements from EBC cured the problem, but only for a short while. The EBC rotors are exhibiting pulsations and although not as severe they are still still irritating. Thickness variations meausured on the EBC rotors are about 0.0015". The fixed calipers on the Bandit don't allow the caliper to "follow" the rotor, but the floating style of the rotor should make up for that. Thichness variations though are fed back through the brake system hyudraulics and pulsation results. I feel braking is slightly reduced too because of it.

The original Suzuki rotors were sent to Salvage Tool & Mfg. in Cleveland, OH for resurfacing and I hope that cures the problem once they get back. In the meantime I'm trying to return the defective EBC rotors to Ron Ayers for credit if possible.

Anybody else had similar problems? What was the cure?

BTW I ride very conservatively and in a touring mode with NO brake abuse.

Red01 · « **Reply #1 on:** October 18, 2005, 07:36:49 PM »

Usually the culprit in pulsating brakes on a Bandit can be traced to front tires starting to cup, especially if the front tire is a Michelin Macadam. Replacing the front tire with something else cures most folks problems.

ray nielsen · « **Reply #2 on:** October 18, 2005, 08:24:24 PM »

I'm talking brake pulsatons, not tire problems. Even on the center stand and with the tire raised I can feel the pulsations as I rotate the front wheel.

The brake rotors are not smoothly passing the calipers, rather they have high spots and low spots that cause the rapid pulsations when on the road and braking either easily or harder.

I'm running Metzeler ME880 radials and the problems have transcended a couple sets of tires.

Red01 · « **Reply #3 on:** October 18, 2005, 09:16:44 PM »

Ray, I haven't seen any posts that would indicate a history of problems with warping rotors on the Bandit, that's why I thought maybe the tires might be doing it. There's been plenty of folks here that have had pulsing brake feel from cupped front tires. I'm one of them.
But sounds like you've proven that the tire is not your issue.

PaulVS · « **Reply #4 on:** October 19, 2005, 10:01:43 AM »

Sounds to me... if 2 sets of rotors have gone bad... that something is out of alignment and torqueing the front wheel causing the rotors to warp.

Has the bike ever been dropped?

ray nielsen · « **Reply #5 on:** October 19, 2005, 03:41:52 PM »

I've had a brake specialty company look at the rotors and they offer the opinion that the problem is in the metallurgy of the materials.

They do cryogenic cycling of brake rotors for race cars and bikes that will run rotors it high temps. -65 degrees C for 30 minutes -- 30 minutes at room temp -- 30 minutes at 265 degrees C, for a total of 10 cycles.

This stabilizes the molecular structure of the metal and minimizes the change of dimensions in use. Costs about $70 a rotor, but I'm considering it after the original rotors get back from resurfacing.

In the meantime I'm trying to get Ron Ayers to refund the cost of the rotors -- they're trying to deal with EBC as I write this -- more later.

PaulVS · « **Reply #6 on:** October 19, 2005, 04:25:30 PM »

I heard that EBC did ship out some bad rotors for the Bandit and are replacing them.

Doesn't explain why your stock rotors warped too.

ray nielsen · « **Reply #7 on:** October 20, 2005, 03:01:32 PM »

Maybe there were EBCs also. I wouldn't call the effect warping, because I think of that as a lateral weave or wobble rather then the thickness variations I've experienced.

I had a 1987 BMW R80 that went through 13 front rotors before I finally had pulsation free brakes. All under warranty of course.

BMW had five different part numbers over the years, probably because of bad parts I'm guessing. The front wheel was finally determined to be the cause as the dealer was tightening the rotors (non-floating style) to 32 ft.-lb rather then the updated spec of 16 ft-lb. that was recommended later by BMW. The wheel was deformed at the rotor mounting point with a reduced dimension where the rotor bolt holes were. They also paid for that dealer error. Altogether the repairs to the brakes were over $3000 including the wheel.

The Suzuki rotor mounts via a center hub that's floating relative to the rotor braking surface so I doubt that's a problem with mine -- rather I suspect it's just defective materials or heat treating.

ray nielsen · « **Reply #8 on:** October 21, 2005, 12:23:56 AM »

Just a follow up re: EBC rotors. Their technician contacted me and is shipping a set of new rotors AND brake pads to me. Ron Ayers Motorsports is geing kept in the loop as they supplied the rotors initially and made initial contact with EBC.

Everyone is responding quickly and it looks as though I'll have the rotors and pads soon -- then I'll return the old parts for their inspection.

Their technician indicated they don't have many problems with rotors, but they are anxious to please customers (me) and will respond quickly.

Wonderful service that gives me a warm feeling about the whole problem.

Red01 · « **Reply #9 on:** October 21, 2005, 01:54:41 AM »

terrebandit · « **Reply #10 on:** October 21, 2005, 08:34:57 PM »

FWIW, I have pulsating brakes as well and it ain't due to the tires. I've got a 1G with stock rotors (21K miles)

ttewejnodnarb · « **Reply #11 on:** October 22, 2005, 12:18:49 AM »

Hi,

I also have stock rotors on my 98 B12 with 29K on the clock. I haven't bought the tools to check run out or rotor thickness variations, but suspected those to be the culprit...until now. I'm interested to see how this turns out and if others have experienced the same with thier bikes.

ray nielsen · « **Reply #12 on:** October 25, 2005, 12:57:41 PM »

Here's some more information re: pulsating brakes.

Salvage Tool and Mfg. in Cleveland, OH can resurface the old rotors at a fraction of the cost of new rotors.

I just got my original Suzuki rotors back from them (total turn around time one week) and they're virtually perfect. I measured them for thickness variations and found everything in good order with less than 0.0002" variation -- well below the accepted standard of 0.0005".

The cost was $50 a rotor for the floating kind on my Bandit -- $40 for non floating rotors such as the rear rotor. They paid the return shipping charges too. Give them a call if you're interested. Their phone number is 216-451-5500 and the address is 15709 Euclid Ave. Cleveland, OH 44112.

All in all I'm very pleased with the results and the brakes work very well now. NO pulsations and very good braking grip.

BanditYeti · « **Reply #13 on:** October 28, 2005, 08:48:32 PM »

I have a 2002 B12S and I'm starting to notice some pulsating. I'm interested to know what you find out.

Thanks

-Dale

branthopolis · « **Reply #14 on:** October 30, 2005, 04:42:29 PM »

If you have floating-type rotors, one thing to check before you write them off as warped.. Make sure that each rotor button will spin/move around. They tend to get cruddy with use and being out in the elements and after awhile don't move freely as they should... If you find "stuck" buttons, a good cleaning may improve your brake pulsation...