Bandit Alley
MODEL SPECIFIC => SUZUKI BANDIT 600 thru 1200 - AIR/OIL COOLED TECHNICAL => Topic started by: Vee Dub Nut on February 28, 2006, 12:28:11 PM
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So if you have been around and seen some of my previous posts, you may have seen me griping about fuel floats getting hung. Ive had this happen exactly 4 times. This is due to the previous owner letting it sit for over a year after back surgery. He had it serviced and and the tank and carbs cleaned.. but every so often i manage to still get some small pices of crud from the tank. Just happens to be small enough to bypass the strainer but block open the needle. So the last time, at my wits end, i finally put a fuel filter on it. And now my worst fear about the filter has come true, its TOO restrictive.
Ive tried two types of inline filters (stone and paper). The stone one seemed to work ok for a week or so, didnt notice any trouble until one day after several hard acceleration take offs, and generally romping on it a bit, it started coughing. Back out of the trottle for a while, it caught up and ran fine. My guess, pulling fuel from the bowls faster than it was flowing in. So my second shot was to try a paper filter, which i thought would flow better. It too seemed to work ok for a while, but that ended over the past few days. It has been acting weird sometimes lately. A couple times on the highway it choked up on me and then i slowed down and it got better, trying to warm it up in the garage on the side stand it started caughing, sit it upright and it got ok.
To get the filter under the tank there has to be a slight maze of fuel line (this causes the side stand issue i believe). Here is what im thinking is happening. THe fuel pressure is a direct result of gravity and hight of fuel in the tank. Pressure is rho*g*h (density times gravity times height). All my problems are when the tank gets low, around 80+ miles on the tank. THe height of the fuel is too low and the pressure is simply not enough to push through the filter and my maze of fuel line. So tonight while heading to campus, at 110 miles on the tank (a record latley) i had to switch to reserve, but it didnt stop stuttering. I managed to get to the parking lot and left it on reserve (on side stand) hoping some fuel in the lines would flow down into the bowls while i was studing so i could get to the gas station later. Got outside and tired to start it.. it wouldnt run, only on full choke, and any throttle opening killed it. So i pushed it in the dark 1/2 mile down the sidewalk to the gas station. Filled it up to the brim, started, coughed a bit and settled into a steady idle.. grrr
So im either going to have to take the filter off or run some kind of electric pump. Im taking the bike to Arkansas in two weeks and cant be fighting fuel starvation problems, and i need use of my reserve tank.
Do you think i can get away with using an electric fuel pump. Im only worried about the pressure being to high and sinking the floats. I found a small 12v pump that supplies 1.5-3.5 psi.. would this be too much??
(some of this is from my post from MaxZuke)
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Wouldn't it just be easier to treat the cause rather than the symptom and coat your tank?
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well yes... people keep saying that.. but the inside of my tank doesnt look bad.. the sediment can eaisly come from the fuel station...
i would really like to run a filter for assurance, but im having trouble with enough pressure to push past the filter when the tank is low
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i may try one like this as well
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=33660&item=7962002504
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This won't be much help... in fact it won't be any help but it seems like your plan will add another potential trouble spot. What happens if the fuel pump goes out in the middle of the boonies??? Will things continue to run or are you stuck till help arrives?
I also am wondering why you need to run the tank so low (ie: reserve) - if that is the only time it occurs maybe it would be easier to just fill up more often. Maybe it has to do with you getting 25.5 mpg (110 miles divided by 4.3 gallons) :shock: :shock: :shock:
Basically I try to keep things a simple as possible - a fuel pump sounds a bit overkill. Just my opinion.... hope you have a blast on your trip - I am jealous already. :motorsmile:
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I've never been under the tank of a bigger B but would shortening the fuel line help? Straighten out the maze a bit?
I know they're pricy at ~$20, but I've heard good things about Pingles.
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I know they're pricy at ~$20, but I've heard good things about Pingles.
Im going to try another filter style...
On the pingle, i assume your refering to their filter. I cant stomach paying 20 bucks on a consumable filter that i have no idea whether it will be better than what i have...
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This won't be much help... in fact it won't be any help but it seems like your plan will add another potential trouble spot. What happens if the fuel pump goes out in the middle of the boonies??? Will things continue to run or are you stuck till help arrives?
I also am wondering why you need to run the tank so low (ie: reserve) - if that is the only time it occurs maybe it would be easier to just fill up more often. Maybe it has to do with you getting 25.5 mpg (110 miles divided by 4.3 gallons) :shock: :shock: :shock:
Basically I try to keep things a simple as possible - a fuel pump sounds a bit overkill. Just my opinion.... hope you have a blast on your trip - I am jealous already. :motorsmile:
I follow what your saying.. im just trying to find the least poetntial for trouble option. Ive already had trouble with the stock "simple" set up, so its give or take i guess.
When i fill up after switching to reserve, it only takes a little over 3.5 gallons? Where did you get the 4.3? Is that what it is supposed to be? Although, my milage has been pretty crappy, mostly in the really low 30's
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I know they're pricy at ~$20, but I've heard good things about Pingles.
Im going to try another filter style...
On the pingle, i assume your refering to their filter. I cant stomach paying 20 bucks on a consumable filter that i have no idea whether it will be better than what i have...
Yeah sorry, their fuel filter. FWIW - the element is replaceable in them.
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ohhh.. i didnt know they had replaceable elements
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I don't mean to throw this thread on a tangent and I have not been able to read all of your other posts, but these problems occur a lot with old Hondas as well. Take a look at www.sohc4.us, you'll find similar problems, a couple with the "jwalters" username. :grin:
But anyway, sometimes going back over the basics can help, sometimes it can't... if the later case is true, then I apologize for this drawn out reply.
I would double check that your float needles are seated properly and that your float doesn't have a crack or a small hole in it. You can test it by submerging it in water, and looking for bubbles or just shaking it to see if you can hear liquid inside. Seems to me, if you are getting sediment from your Gas Station, it would also clog your idle and mains jets as well, (and even your passenger car's FI system).
Most likely I just repeated what you already know, but hey, I tried!
:duh:
but every so often i manage to still get some small pices of crud from the tank. Just happens to be small enough to bypass the strainer but block open the needle.
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When i fill up after switching to reserve, it only takes a little over 3.5 gallons? Where did you get the 4.3? Is that what it is supposed to be? Although, my milage has been pretty crappy, mostly in the really low 30's
Oops.... sorry - I was basing my figures on a 2G Bandit. :duh: I believe you have a 5 gallon tank with 1.1 slated for reserve. That would be a 3.9 gallon fillup but as posted elsewhere on the board the reserve tube height will vary slightly from bike to bike.
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oh hahah.. yea i forgot your on a 2G :bigok:
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To answer the original Q, yes, a fuel pump with a low psi output such as the one you mentioned would be OK... but as the others have said, it would be better to fix the problem than continue with a series of work-arounds.
How much crap has been collected by your add-on filters?
Maybe a new petcock with a new filter would cure your ails?
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Thanks paul... im going to try a few more things this weekend, and will be installing a pump if i cant get anything else to work. I would rather leave this as least complicated as possible, but i think a pump would sure make life easy. I'll keep yall posted.
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Well i pulled my tank, emptied it and cleaned it out last night. There wasnt much wrong with the inside, but it did have some fine grain sediment that come out. Once clean, i dried and reinstalled with a new smaller filter that i was able to run a straight shot from the petcock to the carbs. I hope this works, only time will tell....
Also made a few carb tweaks, trying to regain some lost fuel milage...
Thanks for the helps guys!
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So, whats the verdict, did you get it to work, or are you going with a pump?
Josh
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hey.. yea i got it working fine with a different style of filter and decreasing the length of the fuel hose. Its routed the same as stock now, with the filter stuck right after the petcock..
So far no issues.. I just got done with 850+ miles of Arkansas riding, several times with an almost emptly tank and no flow problems any more..