Bandit Alley
MODEL SPECIFIC => SUZUKI BANDIT 600 thru 1200 - AIR/OIL COOLED TECHNICAL => Topic started by: Sven on August 02, 2005, 08:40:26 PM
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After going through much of the archive, I see that chain issues are a recurring and many-threaded topic! What I didn't see is what to expect as chain lifespan, especially from the OEM chain.
In June, when my 03b12s hit 10,000, I noticed clunking noises from the chain area. I thought the chain seemed loose and thought the noise might be from slapping the plastic guides and the like. I asjusted the chain tighter and looser trying to get it right from my own perspective as well as what friends said and cleaned/lubed. Clunking went away for a week then but returned. Finally stopped at the shop and the tech (who was great) gave me an overview of adjustment and lubrication. He went ahead and did both and all was perfect for about 350 miles. (BTW, the sprockets look OK to me and he didn't say they were due for replacement.) The clunking returned this weeked, and after lubing, all is good again. (I have 12500 on it now.)
The tech said to lube it "after a 400-mile day" and/or "every week". Other guys have said that's ridiculous, it shouldn't be needed that oftern. I read where many of you do follow a weekly sched and/or some mileage interval of 300-500 miles. If that's what I need to do, I can do that...not going sweat a 5-minute task.
SO...what's normal lifespan on a chain? Am I having a lot of noise because it's so hot and lube just isn't lasting very long? (I live in the hot and humid midsouth.) I wasn't very attentive to chain maintenance in the past...an occasional thing when I thought of it, but not on any real schedule. DId I prematurely wear it out? The tech said it should be good for another 12K miles, but he also said this winter when I have some off-riding time I should go ahead and get a chain/sprocket replacement.
PS: Using Bel-Ray now. Used Honda red-can previously.
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I think 20 to 25k sounds like a reasonable lifespan provided the chain is kept lubed (I do mine @ 300 miles unless making long days, then at the end of the day) and kept adjusted properly (not too tight!). Of course this will vary with the number of wheelies etc that you subject the bike to. I am actually hoping that I will get 30k or better out of my current setup.Some guys can destroy the entire final drive setup in under 10k.
Steve
FWIW: Unless travelling, I use my first trip set to monitor fuel, the second to monitor the mileage interval for chain service, pretty easy to remember that way.
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When in doubt, change out the chain. When a chain breaks, it usually wraps up on the front sprocket and breaks or cracks the case on the motor. I have had this happen once, and seen it happen to others several times.
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If, or when you experience the "clunk" in your final drive next time, put your bandit on the center stand and squat down alongside your rear sprocket...roll the rear wheel by hand slowly and watch each link. Remember on each chain there is an inside and outside link. If even one of them wants to arch up rather than follow the path of the others smoothly, replace the chain. If they roll smoothly over the back, move to the front and do the same. It just takes one link to weenie out from being overstretched or early roller failure...and like was noted by BHolland, a chain is much cheaper than a case.
Do they make Case Savers for street bikes? I have them on our ATV's...but I never thought about the Bandit...sheesh! :duh:
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Me too man..
I've got ~12500 on my B12 right now myself. Last weekend I did the first real thorough chain cleaning and lube in far too long. My chain was starting to make 'clunking' noises. I found the adjustment was pretty much right on, and neither chain nor sprockets are showing much sign of wear, but it was pretty dirty. As were the plastic guides on the swing arm. I throughly cleaned everything and applied new lube. It seems to have helped quite a bit. I too am starting to wonder if I have damaged the chain somehow in my negligence.
Normally I just apply more and more lube, rarely do I actually clean the chain before applying more lube. I think this has been my mistake. I think I need to get down there w/ some cleaner and a tooth brush and scrub more often, removing the dirt and road grime before applying fresh lube again.
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As in any manufacturing process, a large majority of our equipment is chain driven, and most all of it cycles 24 hours a day, some at low speeds with heavy torque loads, some at very high speeds with just a little, and lots of intermediate speed and load.
Our maintanance shop uses a guage that shows a certain amount of "STRETCH" that is acceptable in a chains life. I haven't looked at one for a while, but the base measurement is like 12 or 14 links...and once those links reach a certain length the chain is replaced. Generally the chains will start to CLUNK when a link has been stressed or has begun to reach it's life expenctancy. I'll check with the shop and see if the same kind of guage works for bike chains....or if not what % of stretch is acceptable. They might have some insight on whats-what...maybe :shock: I'll try to follow up in a day or so.
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I have a 02 B12 with just over 10,300 miles on the clock and have and changed my chain and sprockets for the first time 2 days ago.
I was expecting to get alot more milage out of them but the mech' who changed them said this kind of milage was about average the sprockets showed some signs of wear but nothing to bad to my untrained eye anyway, but the chain has had to be adjusted several times in fact it was on the last marker on the swingarm when i decided to put a new one on.
I'm hoping to get a bit more milage from the new one as the mech' told me it was better than original, i do lube my chain but rarly get down and give it a good clean maybe if i did i'd have got a bit more from it. Oh well never mind.
Robbie
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I've got over 50,000 miles on my B12 and have never gotten much over 12,000 on a chain. I clean and oil them regularly but I do do track days. It all depends on how you ride and maintain your chain as to how much life you'll get out of it. I always change the sprockets when I change chains as well.
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I got about 12K miles from the OEM chain. I replaced it when I noticed the o-rings were starting to break up. I replaced it with a DID ZVM530 and got 20K miles from that. I replaced the chain (another ZVM530) and the sprockets about 6K miles ago.
I clean the chain pretty regularly with kerosene and lube it frequently with PJ1 Blue.
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You get what you pay for! zvm x ring top of the line DID, 20k and going strong. Stock one i got 16k. Chain wear or stretch is what wears the sprocket teeth the most! cheap chain cost more in the long run! From new, PJ's Blue label, one can @ work one @ home both over half full. 98 B12 new to me in late 99. I use compressed air or brush to remove most big crud, lube while chain is warm. About every week unless i get caught in rain or wet roads. Don't over snug your chain!! this is probably the biggest cause for short lived O or X ring chain. Rivet clip only for the torque monsters! It has to have the right slack when swing arm is at its straight back position. Most will adj with bike on the hard stand and not keep this in mind. the first time the swing arm moves to its flat position something got to give! The area of your chain, not on sprockets, on the top side with the torque on it. Much better to be a bit loose than too snug. Just the way i adj like after a tire change. With bike on hard stand after axle nut is tight, lower chain will touch bottom of swing arm with ease, it should feel the same at any point of the chain length. One other factor if you go to a primary with less teeth like a 14 expect a much shorter chain life because of the tighter bend. When this last chain was installed i went to 16f (have to grind guard) 43R for HWY travel. Maybe a part of why this one is still like new @ 20k.
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My stocker lasted 15K miles. Sprockets still looked new, so they stayed on when the DID VM replaced it... ~3K later, something (like a rock?)must have got into the chain/rear sprocket and two teeth broke, so it was replaced. the VM chain lasted 22K and was just replaced with a DID ZVM this time. New front and rear sprockets went on with it this time.
I lube the chain every other tankful with Honda chain lube in the red can. The Honda stuff is pretty clean, so I don't clean the chain much, usually just at oil change intervals.
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I recently tried the red can Honda chain lube. That is the cleanest chain lube I have ever tried.
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For the 600's I read you measure 21 pins on the chain and if it is over 319.4 mm replace your chain. Measure several places on the length of your chain.
I don't want to do this because I know my chain is on it's last leg. Hope to make it another month commuting.
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That's some good information Nathan.. :beers:
I tried to get the same type of data for the B12's but the only specs I have is for industrial links, nothing we can use :sad:
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Finally measured mine a few weeks ago and found I was well over the limit. a few links also refused to follow the leader and would arch up.
I've since replaced my chain and the front sprocket, going with 16/45 for my commuting (the rear sprocket only had 4-5k on it so I'm staying with it. The bike is so much quieter now. I also synch'd the carbs and I'm now at a indicated 75 mph at 5,700 RPMs. Out of the buzz range and a smoother overall ride experience.
Now I need to switch out the temporary clip on chain link with the rivet on chain link.
Anyone trust the clip on master links for commuting? I had good luck with them on my old bikes.
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The clip style is probably OK on the B6... I used them on my GS750. Some even use them on B12's, but I'm not that trusting with that much power on tap.
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How much does a new chain cost?
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~$100 to $150 for a quality X-ring chain depending on where you buy it.
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My chain is done. One adjustment tick mark left, as someone wrote, "some wont follow the others." It is noisy and I can hear the sticky spot at low speed despite plenty of lubrication. I can also feel it when I put the bike on the center stand.
Which chain do I get?
1. D.I.D. CHAINS 530 ZVM X-RING GENUINE SPECIALTY CHAIN
2. D.I.D. CHAINS 530 VM GOLD PREMIUM X-RING CHAIN
You guys seem to be hooked on D.I.D. chains, what about EK or Regina?
Do I replace the sprockets too? The rear looks OK, not great.
How long will this project take?
I'd rather avoid this whole project. :crybaby: Aw well.
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I squeezed 15K miles out of the stock chain, but it should have been replaced sooner. I replaced it with a DID VM. I replaced it 21K later. I probably could have left on longer, but I was getting ready for a 4-day trip and didn't want to chance any chain problems away from any metro area. I replaced it with a ZVM, but that one's only been on for a couple thou, so it's too early to tell if it will outlast the VM or not.
If you use a chain luber, you will get more miles out of a chain than any of the spray-on lubes or waxes.
Unless the sprockets look GREAT, replace them both.
I can't speak good or bad about other brands since I don't have any experience with them. DID's came recommended to me years ago and I've always stuck with them. I've seen on other sites that DID is the brand with the most "highly recommended" comments, so I've never had a reason to risk using something else.
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Paul,
The DID website says nothing about a VM for a B12, just the VZM. The site also said that a VM is for bikes up to 1000cc. I only bring this up because I want to try the VM, $40 bucks cheaper and the 20K miles you got is just fine with me.
Also, is 110 links the right length?
There are quite a few 520 conversion kits out there, but I have yet to find the b12 sprockets listed, including the vortex site.
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110 is right for stock gearing, or +/-1T up front.
Yes, I have a rivet tool. Mine is simpler than that one, but that one is fine - and that looks like a good price.
One thing I don't like about the DID charts is how they rate in engine size, not power. A 1000cc sportbike needs a stronger chain than a 1000cc cruiser and the B12 is somewhere in between those two - and closer to what a 600 sportbike puts out in HP (more torque though).
Without question, the ZVM is stronger than the VM, but the VM is still stronger than most other companies premium chain (or at least was a few years ago when I compared the VM to other brands) and is more than up to the task of handling what the average B12 is gonna throw at it. FWIW, the VM has the same wear rating and a higher strength rating as DID's ERV racing chain that top pro road racers use.
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:thanks: Bought the tool and a VM chain. Gonna wait and until I get a bit deeper into this project before I decide on sprockets. Upon closer inspection the rear looks fine. I think the chain is the stock original at 24K...Yikes! It has nothing left to give.
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Just replaced my OEM chain which lasted 21,000 miles before starting to clunk out... no damage to sprockets but replaced anyway with JT front and rear since they're relatively inexpensive -- and my style of riding didn't appear to tax them as much as the chain, which is the far spendier proposition.
Got the DID ZVM 530 110 link cain from Chaparral for $128.70, which included USPS Priority Mail shipping.
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What a great thing this Forum is.... But i can't believe what big differences there are for the same bike and most times, the same year's!! I know we aren't fits all, as far as size weight etc, some ride hills, i ride flat straight FL stuff... But some get 15k out of a tire (rear) I'm bragin when i got 7500 on my longest lasting of any, stinko rear tire, which i was puckering on the last 200 miles!!! Brake pads! some got 35 & 50k from a stock set! i got to change my rears every other tire change and they are sintered!!! Chains which i'm reading on this post! some got 25k and used nothing but WD40!! I lube and clean mine too much i guess and thought i did great to get 22k on a top of the line DID zvm'x that makes me sick to see what they fetch on ebay now! I also get about 35 to 38 mpg and i geared my 1g b12 16f/43r so it turns 4200 and that's @ 80mph... Others ride the rear wheel only and get 50mpg $$$ Can some one please help me!!! :duh: :beers:
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You must ride harder than some of us, daytona.
16/43? Maybe your mpg sucks because you're below the engine's sweet spot?
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Yep maybe! The rpm/mph is just rite i think. I do 20 miles ea way to work and back on the super slab, and I'm still trying to find that 6th gear! Front wheel will still come up in second if you get a hand full and twist it!! All the other stuff?? A few mpg/mph/miles on tires,chains/b-pads can be explained!!! Some vary by over 150% from one to another.. The prob is I'm on the sh*t end of the spectrum !!! :duh: :motorsmile:
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Man can this stuff get confusing! http://www.canyonchasers.net/shop/generic/chain.php The chain thing is deep... http://www.quality-cycle.com/truth_about_motorcycle_chains.htm Could it be we want the piece of mind of bigger is better. It seems like I'm cleaning and lubeing the x or o ring as much as the non's of old... I don't do any long trips which i think the sealed chain was made for, allowing extended lubrication intervals... Anyone know for sure why its taboo to use the non sealed when one came on the bike?
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It's not taboo. Racers do it all the time because non-sealed chains are lighter.
Unless you like changing chains though, a street bike is better off using an X-ring chain for maximum life.
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For the 600's I read you measure 21 pins on the chain and if it is over 319.4 mm replace your chain. Measure several places on the length of your chain.
Exactly the same for 1200 of any year, according to the haynes manual.