Bandit Alley
MODEL SPECIFIC => SUZUKI BANDIT 600 thru 1200 - AIR/OIL COOLED TECHNICAL => Topic started by: arshishb on August 06, 2009, 02:55:02 AM
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Hi guys, I am the new owner of a 2000 B6 that I bought 3 days ago as a replacement for my stolen CBR600. I will eventually get a track/race only CBR but for now I needed a simple motorcycle to commute on & buy groceries :D
My bike is 100% stock with 4800 miles. It is very cold blooded & takes a while to warm up but thats not the issue. The issue is that at any throttle input, the response is very "delayed", get what I mean? Say I am at 5K Rpm & I gently roll on the throttle. I dont expect the bike to blast off but I expect the engine to respond to my wrist, however as of now it takes a second or 2 for the bike to realize what I am asking it to do & only then do I get any response. This has made passing really annoying, even when I drop gears its the same.
I have run seafoam for 2 tanks but that hasnt made much of a differnce. I have read that a jet kit really wakes up the bike but thats not what I want, I am OK with the stock power, I just need it to respond when I ask it to!
If anyone can point me in the right direction for this, I will appreciate it. I did use search but there was no specfic info related to my issues.
EDIT: Just want to say this happens no matter how long the engine has been running. So its not a case of a cold engine.
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Just some random thoughts before more knowledgeable folks show up - and in order of simplicity....
Check the air filter and replace if necessary - 4,800 miles is not a lot but 9 years is.
Pull the plugs and check the color... if they are dark and sooty you could be running rich (dirty air filter?) or similar.
You may have some crud in the carbs that Seafoam won't get rid of... might be time to pull them and clean things out - sounds like the bike may have sat for quite a while with gas in it. There's a decent guide in the download section for a Stage One Jet Kit that can guide you through removal, disassembly and cleaning even if you don't re-jet.
Good luck and keep us posted on your finding.
BTW - :welcome: to BanditAlley... glad to have ya!!
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Also check the condition of the vacuum diaphragms on the carb tops and look for vacuum leaks. Spray a little starter fluid around suspect areas with the engine running and if the rpm's change, you found a leak.
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Thanks guys, the PO claimed that its been "serviced" but I should have known better. Thanks for the valuable insight, will try to get to it over the weekend & see what I can find.
I also noticed that there is a open ended hose hanging from the right side of the tank, I will take pics & post them here soon. Looking fwd to get this sorted so that I have a clean running bike!
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If anyone can point me in the right direction for this, I will appreciate it. I did use search but there was no specfic info related to my issues.
Try opening up the float bowl screws and draining them, you may be surprised what ends up in the container. Attach a rubber hose first mind.
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Once you get it sorted. definitely rejet the 600. While the 1200 is lean from factory, the 600 is even more so. I got my wife's B6 jetted at the dealer, and it does make a big diff to warming her up and a little in performance. No more choke applied for over 1 minute!. Jet with stage 1 even with stock pipe - recommended!
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Once you get it sorted. definitely rejet the 600. While the 1200 is lean from factory, the 600 is even more so. I got my wife's B6 jetted at the dealer, and it does make a big diff to warming her up and a little in performance. No more choke applied for over 1 minute!. Jet with stage 1 even with stock pipe - recommended!
How did that affect your mileage? I do a 110 miles a day so for me mileage is important. I will be going all ape on performance mods over my race bike but for my commuter I want to leave it as efficient as possible.
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EDIT: I cant post pics as attachments? I cant link them to any image sharing website at work as they are all blocked.
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You'll need to click on the "Additional Option" at the bottom of the posting frame to open the attachment manager. The limits and file types are listed there.
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You'll need to click on the "Additional Option" at the bottom of the posting frame to open the attachment manager. The limits and file types are listed there.
I did, all I see is 3 options:
Notify me of replies.
Return to this topic.
Don't use smileys.
No link to any sort of attachment manager.
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We'll check into that - might be some sort of hiccup with the forum change we made recently.
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How did that affect your mileage? I do a 110 miles a day so for me mileage is important. I will be going all ape on performance mods over my race bike but for my commuter I want to leave it as efficient as possible.
Thats a tough one, cos as soon as we got the bike, we never got thru a full tank before re-jetting her.
On the whole though she still does better than my stock B12. I can do 310-340km's p/tank.
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You'll need to click on the "Additional Option" at the bottom of the posting frame to open the attachment manager. The limits and file types are listed there.
Hes right, His earlier comment of only 3 options and non being for attachments is true!..I just checked here too!
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You'll need to click on the "Additional Option" at the bottom of the posting frame to open the attachment manager. The limits and file types are listed there.
Hes right, His earlier comment of only 3 options and non being for attachments is true!..I just checked here too!
Thats nice, I have run 3 tanks so far & the max I got today was 160 miles which is 256 km. Looks like my carbs are really messed up.
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OK, here are some pics. You can see an open hose on the right side of the bike. There is a spare connector from the TPS, dont know if that is supposed to connect to something. One of the "outlets" from the carb is plugged, dont know what that is.
(http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/1414/openhose.jpg)
(http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/8789/spareconn.jpg)
(http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/6949/pluggedf.jpg)
(http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/7720/leftc.jpg)
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#1 looks like the tank vent hose?
#2 I think is an accessory plug, believe my 01 B12 has one dangling there too
#3 Looks like the vaccum line for the petcock that someone plugged up?
Or if the vaccum line is coming off another carb and going to the petcock like it's supposed to then I'd guess someone lost the synch port plug and made a "plug" with a piece of hose and a screw driver bit.
Someone more knowledgeable than me will chime in soon.
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Tank vent hoses are located toward the rear of the tank - that first pic almost looks like the vacuum line to the petcock. You'll have to pull your tank and see what's under there.
The dangling connector is usually the carb heater connector found on Canadian models I believe - I have one on my B12 also.
The others look like some sort of carb sync extension hoses (although too short to be of any real value) and a homemade cap.
Based on these pics I'd double check all vacuum line connections and make sure there's not a leak somewhere. Pull the tank (good time to check the air filter too) and if necessary take more pictures.
Glad you got the attachments to work for ya. :thumb:
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Sorry, txbanditryder, the attachments still do not work. I just used imageshack when I got home :grin:
On topic, so i tore down my tank & carbs last night, what a mess. Whoever worked on it previously has done such a shitty job. I think the guy screwed up the hoses.
*The dangling hose is actually from the PAIR unit & it is supposed to connect to the homemade screwdriver bit plug.
*One of the tank vent hose that goes to the back of the bike might be from another bike as it actually splits into 2 when it goes back, lol
*I removed the plugs & they look OK, no dark coloring but not too white either.
*The air filter is dirty & I am just going to get a new one from the stealer, about time I retire that 9 year old unit.
I dont know if that dangling hose not being connected to the correct spot in the carb is causing my issue, I will start the carb clean tomorrow & find out when I put everything back together.
On a side note, IT WAS A &@#ing PAIN IN THE ASS TO REMOVE THE THROTTLE CABLE FROM THE CARB!!!! Why couldn't they make it even little bit friendly. I am dreading putting it back together.
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I just took a pic of the plugs, let me know what you think.
(http://img39.imageshack.us/img39/6668/img2701t.jpg)
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Those plugs look decent enough... better than the ones I just replaced with 26k miles on them.
That PAIR valve hose concerns me.... you may have some vacumn issues caused by mis-routing or a bad plug job.
Do you have a factory manual to verify routings and connections??? Keep the pics coming... we'll figure this out yet. :thumb:
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Yepp, I got the factory manual by doing a random search on google. My dangling hose is the vacum hose for the PAIR unit as shown in the pic.
Kinda sucks if this is what is the issue as I removed the whole freaking carb. Oh well since its out, I might as well clean it.
(http://img44.imageshack.us/img44/9524/pair.gif)
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Not sue how the 600 routes its vacuum, but on my B12, the PAIR's vacuum hose and the petcock's vacuum hose tee'd together and plugged into the #4 carb. (I don't think it really matters which carb you use, as long as the other 3 are securely capped off.)
Seems like the PO got which hoses went where all mixed up when they had the tank off at some point and just threw it together with a series of bad guesses.
Labels, pictures and/or a good shop manual can be your friends when you're doing something unfamiliar.
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In the 600, the tank vacum hose connects to carb 4 & the PAIR vacum hose connects to carb 3, for whatever reason they made it separate, I am going to keep it that way so that I have everything to factory spec. Hopefully the bike will just "work" after that.
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Quick question: I found out that the AF screw was set to 3 turns out. Should I keep that or change it back to factory spec? Or any other amount for that matter?
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Not sure what factory spec is on your bike but the important thing is they're all equal.
For a baseline I'd start with factory settings IF you are putting everything else back to factory settings including jets/needles. You have to start somewhere. If the A/F screws have already been drilled out it's possible that some sort of jet kit has already been installed.
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Unfortunately there is no way for me to tell if there is a jet kit or not, I think there is one but can't say for certain. I will have to contact the PO who will have to contact his PO to find out. The guys before me just owned the bike for 2 weeks & did nothing to do it.
Anyway I am going to start with the factory settings & see how it goes. As it is I am getting shitty mileage, max 45 MPG when I have heard people get 50-55 mpg in stock trim. Which is why I bought this bike in the first place.
EDIT: I just versified with the service manual, the carb components are stock. & they state the AF screw to be 1 3/4 turn out instead of the 3 turns that I had. This is getting interesting.
EDIT 2: My bad, for US bike it is 1 7/8 & for the others it was 1 3/4.
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3 vs. 1-3/4????...... :eek2: .... and stock jetting to boot?????? :duh:
At least you now know there are some serious [but resolvable] issues... keep the info coming. :trustme:
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Ok so we have some news. Before I start, I want to say
F*** you Suzuki :gatlin I have owned a number of I4 bikes including a 1997 B12 but NEVER have I found it so difficult to remove the throttle cable AND put it back on the carb, I almost gave up.
Anyway, I zipped everything back up, this time I connected the PAIR vacum hose as it was supposed to be. I started her up & let her warm up. Once warm, there was a night and day difference in throttle response at stand still. NO DELAY!
I am going to relax for a few & then head out for a test ride & I will let you know what happens.
One thing though, may be an effect of the PAIR system, the revs don't "drop" as quick as before when you let go of the throttle.
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:popcorn2: :popcorn2: :popcorn2:
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^ (beer).... ^ (smoked bacon-wrapped jalapenos stuffed with cream cheese)
Standing by for further updates... :thumb:
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So here are the changes made:
* Changed AF screw from 3 turns to 1 7/8 turns
* The float height was set at approx 22-23 mm, I changed to 17 mm as per factory spec
* Re connected the PAIR vacum hose to carb 3
* New air filter
Results:
Well for one, it revs a LOT easier. There is no throttle delay or lag pto 5 K RPM so thats a very good sign. Around town riding is a breeze now.
Highway riding sucks balls. Anything above 5K RPM & I experience that same shitty "delay". Though it is much less now but it is still there.
I will take for my commute tomorrow & see how the MPG fairs. I am now getting tired of this.
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Have you synched since the adjustments? could be the icing on the cake?
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Have you synched since the adjustments? could be the icing on the cake?
No thats the only thing left. But honestly would it make so much of a difference in the upwards of 5K RPM? Oh well I will try to do it during the week to eliminate that possibility.
Thanks for the support guys, last resort would be to ride up to Ivans & ask him to install his jet kit. As of now it is an aggravating experience riding the damn thing on the turnpike.
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OK some more info, I took it for my commute today. 55 miles 1 way & it ran sooooo much better than before. Upto 5K RPM it is entirely a new bike, good grunt & off idle response is excellent.
Above 5K it is significantly better than before. If anything the delay has gone down from 2 seconds to may be .5 secs. Over all if you want a number, it is 85% better than before. I cant believe the previous guy tuned it so badly & didnt bother to change it back to stock.
Still waiting on the tank to get over so I can figure out my new MPG.
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Sorry, txbanditryder, the attachments still do not work. I just used imageshack when I got home :grin:
k,... try again? I found some permissions that looked goofy. I will post a poll (probably tomorrow now) to see if I can see pattern as to who can and can't post attachments, to help me get to the bottom of it if this didn't work.
Thanks to txbanditrydr for the heads up. Sorry for the delay. That's entirely my fault.
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I had a similar issue with my 05 B12 and it ended up being that the TPS was slightly off. I set the TPS to specs and the problem was gone. It may not be the TPS at all, but just maybe it is? Easy to check either way.
:shrug:
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Wow, the TPS really made a big difference! I cant believe it can be so shitty from factory. The bike is much smoother & livable now.
I used this guide here: http://forums.banditalley.net/index.php?topic=3447.0
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Wow, the TPS really made a big difference! I cant believe it can be so shitty from factory. The bike is much smoother & livable now.
I used this guide here: http://forums.banditalley.net/index.php?topic=3447.0
:beers:
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Not sue how the 600 routes its vacuum,... (I don't think it really matters which carb you use, as long as the other 3 are securely capped off.)
Correct.
<<Labels, pictures and/or a good shop manual can be your friends when you're doing something unfamiliar. >>
YES! And, even when doing something familiar (don't ask).