Author Topic: So I bought some shims...Quick question. (Read 6026 times)

rider123 · « **on:** February 21, 2006, 05:24:40 PM »

In anticipation of putting on my muzzy slip on before I buy a jet kit, I bought some of those shims from Radio Shack to shim up the needles and have the mixture plugs out however:

1. Radio Shack doesn't exist in Canada anymore, hence the part number for the shims are discontinued.

2. I bought the equivelant shims from the "Source"(who bought out radio shack) and they are well made but are plastic and not metal. The width of the shims in the package is 1mm. I believe the ones people use on this size are half a millimeter. .5 mm. Are these shims too thick or are they the right size?

3. If they are slightly too thick can this be compensated by taking out the snorkel or drilling a few extra 3/8"(a la Ivan's) holes to compensate in the airbox? I plan to get Ivan's jet kit so I could drill a few of the holes nessesary before I receive the kit.

4. The plastic is pretty tough but it's not metal. Will it survive the heat of the engine. I realize there is already a nylon "donut" on the needles already, this plastic may already be nylon so this may be a non issue.

5. Does anyone have any extra shims they could measure for comarison? Preferably in metric but I'll find a converter from imperial as nessesary.

6. If these shims are not usuable is there someone over the border that I can buy a bag of these shims from. It seems Radio Shack is dead in Canada, though they do recognize the part # in their computers.

I'll post a pic of these shims so you guys can look at them. I may pull one of my carb tops when it gets warm to see which one I need(I believe the smallest will work). Theoretically if you guys say I need a .5mm shim I could take the plastic one to a hobby shop or whatever once I know what thickness I need and get the equivilent. Thanks.

Chris out.

Accoriding to a MM to inches calculator 1mm is a .040 shim equivilant. Too thick?

rider123 · « **Reply #1 on:** February 21, 2006, 08:03:12 PM »

Just to give you more info:

I have a 2005 Bandit 1200S and I just bough a Muzzy aluminum slip on(nice pipe!!). I was going to put the pipe on and shim the needles and open the mixture screws out a touch till it works with the stock airbox untill I decide which kit to get. I realize some people run aftermarket stuff without a jet kit but some people just shim the needles a bit and open up the mixture screws to get it running well untill I buy a jet kit.

What I'm concerned about is that 1mm (.040) is too thick(run too rich) to work with the stock airbox without needed to either A. Take out the snorkle or B. Drill a few 3/8" holes in the box with the muzzy slip on. Of course my first choice would be to leave everyting alone untill I need to cut holes and such.

Here is a pic of the shims:

Red01 · « **Reply #2 on:** February 22, 2006, 10:06:51 AM »

If you'd use two metal washers, then one of these is probably OK. (I used 2 before I rejetted.) Be sure the OD of the washer doesn't hang up in the slide. The nylon is probably OK, but if you're worried about it, go to a hardware store and pick up some metal #8 washers... you still want to be sure the OD of the washer doesn't hang up in the slide though.

rider123 · « **Reply #3 on:** February 22, 2006, 01:15:28 PM »

Thanks Red, now that I look at the washers I think you're right I'll give them a shot. ON the back of the package it says "8 of the following washers: 4-40, 6-32, 8-32, 10-32" I'm assuming the "8-32" means #8 washer and either the diameter of the hole or the outside diameter. Either way it's probably the equivilant of a notch, or a notch and a bit up on the needle. I'm assuming you left the airbox totally unmodified untill the jet kit came.

DaveG · « **Reply #4 on:** February 23, 2006, 10:21:03 AM »

i bought some #8 brass washers at Cdn. tire
i have already removed the a/f plugs and find i need 4 1/4 turns with my scorpion.

plan is to try 1 washer and see how it works. bought extras to try 2 if needed.

with the 4 1/4 turns the idle is a little rich but i just kept increasing from 3 1/2 until the popping on deceleration stopped.

a plug reading shows a little too lean so i plan the shim route.

this hopefully will sort out the idle and mid range and may need to increase the mains to get perfect.

then when it is perfect i'll buy ivan's kit.

keep in touch and maybe we can save each other some time.

rider123 · « **Reply #5 on:** February 23, 2006, 12:06:11 PM »

Yes I think 4 1/4 turns(holy!) would be a little rich however you're compensating for a lean mid-range. Can you do me a favour and measure the thickness of your shims? Are they installed yet? If they aren't putting them in there is going to help the popping and mid-range and you can turn your A/F mixture screws down to a more normal level.

The thickness of the shims I have is 1mm(.040) which is allegedally the equivalent of 2 metal shims. I'd like to get an idea of where I stand if I use these shims. You can use a normal ruler and can tell if it's a mm or less.

Red says he got good results with 2 metal shims so I might give this plastic shim I have a try since it's the equivalent of 2 metal shims anyway.

I got these shims at the "source"(stupid name) which bought out Radio Shack in Canada.

DaveG · « **Reply #6 on:** February 23, 2006, 03:49:48 PM »

yep, i know that the a/f mixture is compensating. all the circuits overlap a bit. that is why i want to install shims. i have learned to do one step at a time. small steps at that.

have not installed yet
i saw the source ones too and did not buy because of the material.

i will measure tonight and let you know.

Where are you in the big city?

i live right at the end of the forks of the credit. if you want to compare results first hand.

pm me if you like

Red01 · « **Reply #7 on:** February 23, 2006, 04:33:30 PM »

I know I left the airbox unmodded, but IIRC, I did pull the snorkel, but that was so long ago, I'm not 100% sure if I did. IIRC, I went 3 turns out with the shims. I'm at 3.5 now with the Holeshot Stage II.

rider123 · « **Reply #8 on:** February 23, 2006, 04:34:08 PM »

Right now I'm in the beaches, but my bike is locked in my aunt's garage for probably another 2 weeks or so. I'm just getting all my ducks in a row for spring I picked up a nice Black 2005 last october for $7999 + tax and have only about 1700kms on it so I may put some more K on it to make sure it's nicely broken in before I start torturing it with my jihad jetting jobs!

If you want to buy the "Source" pack of shims for the hell of it I'll give you the part number when I get home. It was only 3 bucks. Who knows maybe just one of the "Source" shims will fix it right up.

Thanks Red for the update. It's not a huge job to pull the snorkel anway if you want to "dare to compare."

DaveG · « **Reply #9 on:** February 24, 2006, 09:31:18 AM »

measured the brass #8 washers and they are 1mm or .04"

i bought 8 for $.04 each

i planned on only using 1 shim to start and it looks like 1 will be about right.

i will be sure to check the od to make sure it doesn't hang up

will install as soon as the garage warms up a bit. even if it warms enough to go out there with a space heater.

rider123 · « **Reply #10 on:** February 24, 2006, 01:22:23 PM »

Thanks for checking, 1mm should be the equivilent of a notch or a notch and a bit richer on the needle which should be good if we don't mod the airbox. If you get to the job sooner than me you could try running with the snorkel in and out to see which runs better.

The "source" part number for the washer pack is #6409005 if you pick up a pack for the hell of it or look at it tell me if any of the washers in there match your #8 brass ones from crappy tire. I may go to crappy tire and buy the brass ones as well for 2 bucks or whatever it is then have a selection.

BTW the outside diameter of the smallest shim in the "source" shim pack is 5mm wide what is the diameter of the brass #8's? I'll see if I can find them at Canadian Tire.

Edit: well I picked up some number 8 washers and they sure look big to me. Anyway I picked of 12 #8's and 12 #6's just in case and have the "source" washers. I picked up some Permatex utra copper so I'm really set!! Ill measure everything when I get home.

If you look at my pic up top the Number 8 washers look the same size as the washer under number 2, the middle one.

chupacabra · « **Reply #11 on:** February 25, 2006, 07:52:26 AM »

I have too know, what do you plan on useing the Permatex utra copper for???
I can think of alot of things to use it on, just not when shimming the needles!

rider123 · « **Reply #12 on:** February 25, 2006, 06:04:50 PM »

The permatex is for the slip on. Measuring the brass shims it seems they are slightly less than 1 mm more like .8 or .9. I'll go with one to start but I'm thinking I'll probably have to go with 2. Or put in the "source" shims which are .1 or .2 thicker.....ahh the joys of shimming!

rider123 · « **Reply #13 on:** March 13, 2006, 12:27:25 AM »

bump for reference