Bandit Alley
MODEL SPECIFIC => SUZUKI BANDIT 600 thru 1200 - AIR/OIL COOLED TECHNICAL => Topic started by: Chi-TownBandit on April 22, 2005, 05:26:45 AM
-
Hey guys:
I've just installed the Stage II kit, and everything runs great for the most part. But, when I start the bike up, and while it's warming up, there seems to be a slight popping ping/tick sound from the carbs (similar to the ticking sound when you're starting up a stove top gas burner). Also, one of the carb caps blew off during my test ride today--this caused my bike to gunshot backfire around 5000 rpms, but when I replaced it--it ran like a champ again. I figured that I'd just put some clamps on the caps to make sure they stay on.
With that said, has anyone experience this pinging pop sound? It doesn't affect the bike's performance, but it's kinda annoying the hell out of me. Also, has anyone experience the top carb caps popping off before? I'm thinking both are occuring due to the a/f combustion pressure within the carbs, but I'd like to know other people's experience. I'm pretty sure the gunshot backfire was due to the vaccuum leak caused by the missing cap.
Thanks, in advance, for the time and input.
-
Hey Erin,
I don't have a HS stage 2 but have installed one for the friend. He never described a problem like this but he did note more intake noise, especially when giving it the gas. Since the stage 2 requires removal of the air box, I would suspect that one might here all sorts of different intake noises and perhaps some minor backfiring out of the carbs. If I was a betting man, I'd say that it is the back firing that you are hearing and a minor amount of that is normal when the engine is cold. It sounds like this only happens on a cold start up (engine cold)? My thinking is that this occurs when a lean condition is present so maybe a tweak of the fuel screws or larger pilot jets would be the ticket. If you give it a bit of choke, does this make it stop?
You could always call Dale Walker at HS and get the word from the horses mouth! 831-761-2808 http://www.holeshot.com/ Thats where I would start as he is a real nice guy and will help you out personally. He is known for this! Tell him Dave Terre sent ya! HA
Dave
-
Hey Dave, thanks for the quick reply. By the way, you've got a sweet Bandit--I really like your control & handling mods. :motorsmile: When I get some cash, I'd like to add the risers and throttlemeister--they look really cool on the bike, and I bet are really helpful!
Back to the topic though:
1. I was thinking that the removal of the airbox might cause some noise in the carbs, especially when it's cold. When the bike was fully warmed up, the pinging noise does almost completely go away, so the choke does help. Only resurfaces just a bit, when I was stopped at red lights, and between the 1-3 rpm band, but never heard the sound when I was in the middle to to end (4-12) of the rpm band in all 5 gears. So, I thought this might be a normal sound.
2. The screws are set at 3.5 and the pilot jets are at 35. I think the pilot jets are fine because the idle's great, but I just might tinker with the a/f screws, and turn them out a half or full turn just to see if a lean condition is the culprit. But, I think 3.5 turns out might be optimal for my elevation/humidity level because the bike was running great (except for the sound) as long as the top caps stay in place.
3. Finally, I'm not a name dropper, but I'll definitely use the "Dave Terre" ticket, if D.W. gives me some first class service! :lol: Seriously though, I just might give him a buzz, just to get his opinion, but I figured that I'd ask the master mechanics on the board first, and save my D.W. "call-ins" if I really mess my bike up with other future mods.
Thanks again for the help! :thanks:
-
I'm running the same setup as you, and the pop ping noises occur every time I start it, but stops after warmup. Never had a cap blow off though!
-
Hey chevsuz12, we definitely have to get that Chicago rally going this summer!
Thanks for letting me know about the noise, it makes me feel a little better that other people are experiencing the same thing. Just for reference (and everyone else's), since we're in the same area conditions with the same humidity/elevation level, what are you running on your set up? I've got in the carbs: 147.5 mains, 35 pilot jets, needle position is 2nd notch from the top with the washer (.020 shims), float levels are set at 14.61, and the a/f screws are at 3.5 turns out.
Let me know what you got. It'll help me out and hopefully others who are reading and thinking about going to the Stage II kit.
Thanks! :beers:
-
i have a HS stage 2 w/ stock header and leo vince tube and exaust. popping is normal at startup but you may want to try moving mixture screws to 3 out. i found that 3.5 was a little rich over the long run and i'm at sea level. BTW, did you install the 5 degree ignition advancer / tha really helped smooth out the bike.
-
Hey rtrhd, yes I do have the H.S. advancer, and I might just mess around and turn the a/f screws in and out about half a turn to both 3 and 4 just to see what happens. Thanks again for letting me know about the popping.
-
i wouldn't go too much further than 3.5 turns, but as someone said before, dale at hole shot is extremely helpful and always handles questions personally.also, after installing the kit, i had the bike dyno'd and tuned at racers edge in vegas. they found another 3 hp by dropping needles half a space.that was at 2500' msl and 85 degrees. not cheap but may be worth bringing to a professional for final tuning.
-
I'll probablyjust try the .5 turns in and out, out of curiousity, but I will most likely keep it at the 3.5 just because the bike is running like a champ at its current settings. I guess tinkering is what we wrenchers do, just for fun's sake. Right now, the cash inflow problem prevents me from going to a "professional" to get my bike perfectly tuned. Besides, I'd be happy if this set up is at about 90-95%, as long as I did it myself. :banana:
Thanks again for the input!
-
I couldn't remember exactly what I had in there, so I grabbed my box of jets from the garage and looked for the missing ones! I am running whatever is between the 152.5 and the 147.5, I think it is 150? Running needles on the 3rd clip. screws at 3.5 and 35 pilots. D&D bolt on with holeshot midpipe. Screams like a bat outta hell. Never tried the 147.5 jets. It ran good enough with the 150's and I never looked back.
-
Hey chevsuz12, thanks for the effort with the specs-they're a really good reference point for me for future tuning. Yup, you're running the 150's. I started with the 147.5's, and because the bike's running so good, besides messing with the a/f screws, I just might do the same thing--just ride and never look back. Although, att the end of this season, I might throw in the 150's just for kicks and giggles.
-
Just for everyone's reference:
I clamped the carb top caps down. I guess a cap popping off isn't that unusual of an occurrence once the OEM caps, which are both glued and clamped down, are taking off.
Holeshot said that a lean condition could be a culprit for the slight popping noise and topcap poppage. And, a carb synch was also suggested for a really fine tune.
Overall, getting this Stage II kit up and going has been all worth it, in regards to money and time invested. Cosmetically and performance wise this set up really makes the 1st generation B12 look really mean.
Thanks to everyone for the help and tech advice--I knew I could count on the BBS expert mechanics. :thanks:
Now on to the front and rear suspension!!!!!!!!!!!! :banana:
-
Cosmetically and performance wise this set up really makes the 1st generation B12 look really mean.
Where's that darn "This Thread is Worthless Without Pics" e-con???? BTW... you forgot the most important part... the carbon fiber look "S"s on your tank! :monkeymoon: They're good for a couple HPs, don't ya think?
-
if school wasn't whooping my ass so much, i would've had some time to take some pics of the install--i probably should've been studying anyways!
i think the carbon fiber S's did add some HP--i think it makes the D.W. kit a Stage II and 1/2. i have to get the bike dynoed to see how really bad ass the stickers made the bike! :motorsmile:
-
Hi Erin,
Don't forget that the airbox is a silencer in addition to its other uses. The pods are going to amplify every intake noise you have. Open up the screws to 3.5 and make sure that the carbs are synced. Your intake noise is going to be loud but that's part of the fun. If the o-rings are replaced and the carbs are properly seated, there should be no lean symptoms. If the cap blew off, remove and inspect your slide and seal to make sure there's no damage.
Marc/Atlanta
-
Hey Marc, thanks for the input. I realize now that the pinging pop sound is normal. Also, synching the carbs is going to be done soon.
As for this part of your advice:
If the cap blew off, remove and inspect your slide and seal to make sure there's no damage.
I probably know what you're talking about, but sometimes my version of moto tech terms is different from everyone else's. :duh: What "slide and seal" are you talking about?
Thanks for the clarification!
-
No problem.
The slide is that in which you insert the needle. Plastic. Each carb in the gen 1 series requires an o-ring between the carb body and the plastic cap to seal the vacuum tap location. Without these, the tank valve won't function and she'll have real uneven idle due to vac leaks. Suzuki charges about $3.50 for each of them unless you can find same in a car parts store.
Marc
-
How bad would the uneven idle be, if there is damage to the seal? Would it be really noticeable, like going from 1.2 rpms to 2 or 3, or just a slight up and down on the rpms, from 1.2 to 1.5? Just want to know what to look for, if there is damage.
Thanks again! :thanks:
-
There should be an uneven and weak idle. It should not hunt as high as 2-3K. Pull the tank and remove the caps one at a time to make sure the o-ring is present and that the spring is properly seated on the needle retainer. You need to be sure. Fofr that cylinder that popped the cap, remove the slide and check for any damage. The rubber seal is fragile.
Pep Boys used to stock o-rings and there was a set that was thicker but fit fine. You could check there if you need them.
In the end, the only o-ring that counts is the one on #3 that feeds vacuum to the tank. The others are only for taps for syncing the carbs and you could block them in lieu of using rings - if you must.
Marc
-
Hey Marc, awesome tech advice. My carbs don't seem to have any weak idle symptoms, but when I synch the carbs, I'll take a look at the carbs' inners just in case--this little Q&A session has made me a little paranoid and curious at the same time, so what the hell, I'll take a looksee!
I agree, Pep Boys is the shiznit, and has been for my car as well as the bike!
I'll let you know, if I find anything.
Thanks again! :banana: