Bandit Alley
MODEL SPECIFIC => SUZUKI BANDIT 600 thru 1200 - AIR/OIL COOLED TECHNICAL => Topic started by: gnip on April 15, 2007, 02:13:49 AM
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I recently got my 2000 Bandit 1200s. Back in the mid 90's when I was into 70's Kaws and a Honda I would drool over one of these at Mid-Ohio. I'd even take it in green.
I had raced in a club when I was 5 in 1972. Hondas had Vetter fairings that never matched and Beemers just looked so good. When I first saw the Bandit S I felt it was the best of both: Japanese power with integrated style. Now I have one...Cut to the chase...
I like it stock but would like to overcome some of the emission resrictions that hinder proper performance. I don't really want to mess around with a jet kit.
I'm thinking:
1, Synthetic oil.
2, K&N replacement air filter, no air box mods.
3, Ignition advance 3 degrees, kit or DIY.
4, I believe I can remove a baffle in the midpipe?
Any suggestions? What about Plugs?
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The stock engine is pretty lean...so any improvement in airflow will make it worse.
If you don't want the expense of a jet kit, you can drill the air screw plugs, turn the screws out, shim the needles and consider larger main jets, which is basically a stage one jet kit anyway, but for the amount of work, you might want to consider an Ivan's or Holeshot jet kit.
Check out Ivan's and Holeshot's web site anyway. There are some good tips there. Based on their testing, the stock 2G filter flows better than the K&N replacement.
Synthetic Oil and new plugs are basic maintenance items, but won't increase performance per se. The best bang for the buck is likely a jet kit and low restriction slip on muffler.
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What Mac said... except you can ignore what he said about the K&N filter since you have a 1G B12, not a 2G.
Really, on the '00 B12, the only emissions restrictions the bike suffers from is lean jetting. The muffler IS restrictive, but I think that's more for sound reasons than emissions.
Like Mac said, a K&N filter will make a lean bike even more lean, so do NOT install one unless you plan on fattening up the fuel delivery side of the equation.
If you don't want the added noise of an aftermarket exhaust, you can swap the 1G's muffler for one from a Suzuki RF900 - if you can find one. They are less restrictive and only slightly louder than the stock B12 piece and bolt right up to the 1G's mid-pipe.
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I,d like to leave the stock exaust on the bike. I've read somewhere that there is a baffle in the mid section that can be removed. Is there any truth to this? What about the timing advancement trick on this site?
I guess if I wanted more performance I'd have to go to a jet kit, but my reason is not for getting a pipe. I will check out Ivan's and Holeshot but I'd like to keep mods to a minimum. A well tuned machine is all I'm looking for.
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If you like the stock muffler and you're not going to mess with the jetting, leave it alone. If you remove any restriction in the exhaust, you'll need to make up for it on the intake side.
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Paul has it right. Hovever, if you want the quiet stock pipe and better warm up and throttle response, you migt want to reconsider a stage 1 jet kit.
I put in a Holeshot stage 1 kit and kept my stock air box (with a hole in the top per instructions) and stock air filter with the stock exhaust. The results were great! It was definitely worth the cost and effort to install. It gave smoother performance and better throttle response at all RPM with no down side.
I have since gone to a Holeshot 21" exhaust and like it but, although I like the sound and it might make a little more power, I can't honestly say that it is significantly better than the stock exhaust with the jet kit in terms of smoothness or throttle response.
Like Paul said, don't change the exhaust without rejetting. It is too lean in stock form and that would just make it worse. Don't be afraid to try a stage 1 jet kit. You will be surprised how it brings out the best in your Bandit.
Good luck.
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a big +1 to the above post. Before doing the overhaul im doing now, i had the Holeshot stage 1 jet kit and nothing else. The throttle response was DAY AND NIGHT better and i got 47mpg, 6 more than stock. :motorsmile:
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Thanks for the replies. I've looked at both kits and wonder why Holeshots comes with several sets of needles while Ivans claims to have gotten one just right. Whose kit is easier to install?
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Thanks for the replies. I've looked at both kits and wonder why Holeshots comes with several sets of needles while Ivans claims to have gotten one just right. Whose kit is easier to install?
:headscratch: Holeshot's Stage I kits don't even come with needles and his Stage II kits only come with a single set. Dale's kits do come with 3 sets of main jets though - and Ivan's only comes with one set. Having the extra sets of jets helps you to compensate for differences in altitude, modifications and differences in bikes due manufacturing tolerances.
Either outfit makes a fine product with good instructions and outstanding product support. Both Dale & Ivan will talk you thru any difficulties in the rare cases where the installer needs help. Most folks just follow the baseline settings in these kits and are happy. I'd say there's no real difference in difficulty level with either kit (or the Factory-Pro for that matter).
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I know that I will get ripped for this, but, I use to have a little side line business of installing jet kits and exhaust, and I installed dozens of the Dyna Jet kits, and never had a problem with them. Now, only one of those was a Bandit, the rest were GSXRs, Hondas and Kawasakis. If I was putting a jet kit in today, it would be Dyna/K & N. :duh:
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I,d like to leave the stock exaust on the bike. I've read somewhere that there is a baffle in the mid section that can be removed. Is there any truth to this?
I removed the baffle from my RF 900, by cutting the mid pipe into in two places, removing the baffle, then rewelding the pipe.
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Hey Bob,
Is that you on the ZREX? I love the picture; if you focus on the front fork or the front of the tank the fairing almost fades into the background. Another inch off the ground and it would have disappeared by itself.
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Hey Bob,
Is that you on the ZREX? I love the picture; if you focus on the front fork or the front of the tank the fairing almost fades into the background. Another inch off the ground and it would have disappeared by itself.
Did i miss a picture? Wheres the ZREX? i wanna see! :motorsmile:
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That would be Ken Kimbell at Houston Raceway Park.
That is the bike that beat me in the horsepower shoot out in 2004. It made 171 RWHP to my 155, a stock Hayabusa, before me, made 154.
That bike was stolen a couple of years ago.
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My Bad, :duh:
Confused needles and jets, but none the less, holeshot has more than one set while Ivan claims to have correct jets. I am seeking simplicity.
Holeshot:
3 sets of original Mikuni main jets
2 sets of original Mikuni pilot jets
Ivans:
This kit can be used with either a stock or modified airbox, modification instructions are included with the kit along with the "appropriate jets", (appears to be 1 set).
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Did i miss a picture? Wheres the ZREX? i wanna see! :motorsmile:
The picture of the ZRX is on my Site, link at the bottom.
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My Bad, :duh:
Confused needles and jets, but none the less, holeshot has more than one set while Ivan claims to have correct jets. I am seeking simplicity.
Holeshot:
3 sets of original Mikuni main jets
2 sets of original Mikuni pilot jets
Ivans:
This kit can be used with either a stock or modified airbox, modification instructions are included with the kit along with the "appropriate jets", (appears to be 1 set).
Simplicity is great! :bigok:
But things don't always work that way. That's why Dale includes more than one set of jets. His baseline instructions will tell you which set to use, and for most people, that'll work out just fine. If by chance it isn't, you already have alternate jets to try. I'm not knocking Ivan, his kit is great, too - and if you want to keep the airbox, IMHO, it's a better kit than Holeshot's Stage I.
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So with Ivans I keep the stock airbox? No modifications?
If I go this route I'd probably just add the K&N air filter.
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No with Ivans you keep the stock airbox but modify it to the instructions i.e. drill several small holes in it, the instructions it comes with are more detailed and keep the stock filter do not go with K/N
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Why not?
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Same is true with the Holeshot kit. They say Dyno results are actually better with the stock air filter
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If your wanting to get rid of some stock emissions equipment, Holeshot makes a pair valve eliminator kit thats pretty easy to install. Dont believe there is any performance gains, might lose a pound of weight
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The mid pipe baffle is a piece of perforated metal laying flat against the inside of the pipe. I am sure it causes turbulance, but it is not a restrictor per say (you can see straight through the pipe). That muffler however is a big cork in the system. It will be tough to increase power to any degree with it on.
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So all in all a good performance muffler and either "stage 1" jet kit will produce good results. I am getting ready to do all the maintenance for the summer and am seriously considering upgrading the muffler/jet kit, my only drawbacks are just how happy I am with the stock power.
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Do the mods!!! I loved the stock power too but once i put the Holeshot high mount pipe and stage 1 kit on i had a new bike. More low end power, yea, but _all_ the power was so much smoother. and the throttle response is night and day better. Not to mention i GAINED 7mpg
do it :grin: :motorsmile: :motorsmile:
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What size main jets, pilot jets, # shims, are you using?
I just went to #110 mains, up from 107.5, 117.5 pilot jets and 4 shims. Seems good in midrange and on top but rich on bottom. (we are both at sea level so I thought I might be able to make a valid comparison) ps I am now using a Holeshot 21" slip-on.
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Is that question for me? If so, I am using the recommended setting in the instructions that came with the kit (cant remember them exactly, been awhile) and it worked fine. Same as you, a hair rich on the bottom but great where the rpms are most of the time. I use the comp2 14" can myself. Surprisingly hard to hear at cruise on teh highway
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Banditofdoom,
I appreciate the reply. The H/S baseline settings are 110 mains and 5 shims but stock pilots. I put in the larger pilots because the 115s seemed lean on the bottom even with 3.75 turns out on the mixture screws. I might keep the larger pilots and just turn the mixture screws back from the current 3 turns out to 2.75 turns out and see what happens. Thanks again.