Bandit Alley
MODEL SPECIFIC => SUZUKI BANDIT 600 thru 1200 - AIR/OIL COOLED TECHNICAL => Topic started by: reconstyle85 on June 01, 2007, 11:28:26 PM
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Alright, so I decided on going with a 1216 kit.
But I'm not sure on which one I want to get.
I want to try and be at 140+hp, but this is also going to be my daily driver....
I have dales stage 2 in, with his full system right now, and a set of 89 gsxr 750 cams on the way, but I have been told the best combo is it 89 750 intake, and 91 750 exhaust.
And there are quite a few different options on pistons as well.
Aside from the brands, I've seen compression ratios at 10.8, 11, and 13.5:1.
Which would be the best one for me to run as a daily driver?
Any other insight would be appreciated as well, I'm just looking for everyones opinion on this.
Thanks guys!
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I am heading for this same setup and power level. From what I have heard so far, 1216 is fine and cheaper than 1246. Most are running both gsxr cams (all about the same as for year mine are '89) The compression boost helps keep the midrange solid with the exhaust cam. You will need headwork to get to the HP you want. If you can live with mid to upper 130's stocker will work if shaved .025" with Dale's piston's (10.8 wiseco's) and run on 87 octane with no issues. I am working on a head porter and I will let you know if I can find a deal. The 1246 is tempting but I don't know if there is really any return there on the street and compression is usually a lot higher. Hope that helps and I will post again as I learn/do more.
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Yea, the 1246 requires new sleeves from what I read, and I don't want to do that.
I want to get my head ported, but I'm having a hard time finding a place, from what I hear dale doesn't do it anymore, so if you find somewhere let me know!
I want to be over 140hp though, that's my goal, with a 1216, on pump gas.
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The 1246 does not need to be sleeved it is as big as the stock sleeves will go. However, the high compression of the available pistons cause trouble for us street guys. You start getting close on valve clearance with 13 to 1 even with the gsxr cams and of course the pinging issue. I might have a local guy for the heads, but I need to find a few customers of his for opinions. Cam timing can get you a few ponies too if you have the gears slotted so you can adjust it.
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Cam timing can get you a few ponies too if you have the gears slotted so you can adjust it.
I don't think I'm going to go that far, Stock sprockets with the gsxrs cams are as far as I think I'm going to go there. But yea, keep me updated on your machine shop guy.
And if anyone else has a guy they know and trust, and does good work, let us know!!
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I would also like the 1216 in my Bandit, with 11-1 comp. But I have reservations about heat. Here in central Ca. it get well over the century mark. Last year it got up to 108*f. It has gotten hotter. I don`t want to put a 1216 in and have it running hot all the time.
For those with 1216`s, how hot is it where you live? And do you have any heat related issues with the 1216?
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I have the 1246, 13 to 1 JE kit, I also have .020 milled off the head, and as long as the bike is moving, it does not over heat. I don't think that the 91 750 cams will fit in our engine, 8 lobes as opposed to 4 lobes on our cams. I'm not up on the 750, but I know the 91, 1100 will not work.
I am in Texas were the temp is 95 to 100 in the summer.
I am running the cammotion G21 cams with .380 lift, with 1.5 mm over intake valves and 1 mm over exhaust valves.
Center lobe setting is 104 Intake and 106 exhaust
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For a daily driver the 1216 is about as big as you want to go. The reason for this is the heat factor, if you bore big you will run more heat with less heat disapation. As for the cam, I would recommend the 88-89 GSXR 750 intake with the 89 GSXR 750 cam. Along with the 1216 kit, I would also recommend getting the head ported with a street port job to get full use of the cams.
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A 1246 in a Bandit is the same as a 1216 on an 1127 GSXR as far as the sleeves are concerned.
Jay
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A 1246 in a Bandit is the same as a 1216 on an 1127 GSXR as far as the sleeves are concerned.
Jay
??? Please explain.
Don't they both used the same kits to get to 1216 or 1246?
Or are you saying heat issues are the same for a GSXR 1127 @ 1216 as they are for a Bandit @ 1246?
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Frustrated with the price and time to turn around a head, I have decided to port it myself. Going to a gsxr exhaust cam and shaving the head to raise the compression to 10.5. I am currently at 124 hp and I will let you guys know what I get from my Okie head porting. How are you getting along recon?
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Well, I found a local guy here to do all my work.
I'm getting the head ported/polished and milled for 700, the wiseco 11:1 pistons for just over 500, the cylinders bored and honed for like 160. And I went with 89 750 intake and exhaust cams.
The guy at the shop said for 80 bucks he will slot my cam sprockets for me, and then when I have the motor put back together he will dial them in (degree) them for me as well.
And after everything is said and done, he told me to bring it back for a run on his dyno with EGA to fine tune the carbs, for free.
So I think I'm getting a pretty good deal on it, 2 week turn around time too. Better than the 4 week turn around time from all the other places I called....
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2 weeks is very good. Keep me posted, I am curious to see where you end up. I am constructing a flow bench for my little project at the moment, but the milling of the heads is in process. I am going to get the slotted cam sprockets from ape, they are $49 brand new and I have some stuff to order from them anyway.
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A 1246 in a Bandit is the same as a 1216 on an 1127 GSXR as far as the sleeves are concerned.
Jay
??? Please explain.
Don't they both used the same kits to get to 1216 or 1246?
Or are you saying heat issues are the same for a GSXR 1127 @ 1216 as they are for a Bandit @ 1246?
The Bandit has a thicker sleeve, larger OD sleeve, so when it is bored for the 1246 pistons, it still has the same thickness as the GSXR, 1127, has when it is bored for the 1216 piston.
I still would not go to the 1246, unless it had already been a 1216 and needed boring agin. The 13.5 to 1, 1216 will make as much HP as the 13 to 1, 1246.
This is my Dyno from my 1246
(http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z295/rlholland3175/scan.jpg)
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BHolland, what other work do you have done to your motor if you dont mind me asking? Stock carbs?
Like I said, I went with the 11:1 1216 kit and was hoping for somewhere around 145hp, but I see you have 2 points up compression on me and you are making 155hp, just curious too see what else you got in there....
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2 weeks is very good. Keep me posted, I am curious to see where you end up. I am constructing a flow bench for my little project at the moment, but the milling of the heads is in process. I am going to get the slotted cam sprockets from ape, they are $49 brand new and I have some stuff to order from them anyway.
Man, I wish I could learn how to do all this stuff myself... :(
I'll post up when I get the head and cylinders back and let you guys know how everything turned out.
Good luck man!
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BHolland, what other work do you have done to your motor if you dont mind me asking? Stock carbs?
1998 Suzuki Bandit, J&E 13 to 1- 1246 Piston Kit, Lazer Level 3 Ported Head w/ over-size stainless steel, 30mm intake and 26mm exhaust, valves, APE bronze valve guides, Heavy Duty Valve Springs. CamMotion G21 Cams w/ Slotted Sprockets, Holeshot top end oiler kit, Mikuni 38mm Flatslide Carbs with K-N Pod Filters, Quarter Turn Throttle. HEL Oversized Oil Cooler w/ SS Lines, Hindle SS Exhaust, Holeshot Power Shifter3, Dyna shift light, Pingel High Flow Petcock, GSXR 1100 Clutch, Cable clutch conversion, GSXR 1100 rear shock rebuilt by Lindeman, Front Forks Rebuilt by Lindeman, LSL Rearsets, Tokico 6 Pot Brakes w/ SS Lines,
155 RWH, 94 ft lb torque,
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BHolland, what other work do you have done to your motor if you dont mind me asking? Stock carbs?
1998 Suzuki Bandit, J&E 13 to 1- 1246 Piston Kit, Lazer Level 3 Ported Head w/ over-size stainless steel, 30mm intake and 26mm exhaust, valves, APE bronze valve guides, Heavy Duty Valve Springs. CamMotion G21 Cams w/ Slotted Sprockets, Holeshot top end oiler kit, Mikuni 38mm Flatslide Carbs with K-N Pod Filters, Quarter Turn Throttle. HEL Oversized Oil Cooler w/ SS Lines, Hindle SS Exhaust, Holeshot Power Shifter3, Dyna shift light, Pingel High Flow Petcock, GSXR 1100 Clutch, Cable clutch conversion, GSXR 1100 rear shock rebuilt by Lindeman, Front Forks Rebuilt by Lindeman, LSL Rearsets, Tokico 6 Pot Brakes w/ SS Lines,
155 RWH, 94 ft lb torque,
HOLY $h!t!!!! There's some money in that machine!
It's hard to believe that it only makes 155rwhp, not saying that's bad, but I guess after the 140ish mark you pay big bucks for every hp after that.
So realistically, do you think I'll be able to hit my goal of hp in the mid 140's with just 11:1 1216 kit, port/polish and mill? gsxr cams with slotted sprockets, with the stock carbs?
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HOLY $h!t!!!! There's some money in that machine!
It's hard to believe that it only makes 155rwhp, not saying that's bad, but I guess after the 140ish mark you pay big bucks for every hp after that.
So realistically, do you think I'll be able to hit my goal of hp in the mid 140's with just 11:1 1216 kit, port/polish and mill? gsxr cams with slotted sprockets, with the stock carbs?
My Bandit made 145 rwhp with the Holeshot 1216 kit, lazer ported head and the 38 mm carbs. So yes, you should make 140's.
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Hey B, your dyno sheet shows your torque peak is lower than I expected. I assume you did that with your cam timing? Have you experimented with that and if so what worked best for you?
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Hey B, your dyno sheet shows your torque peak is lower than I expected. I assume you did that with your cam timing? Have you experimented with that and if so what worked best for you?
The dyno was done with 98 GSXR cams set at 103 intake/106 exhaust. I have set them at 106/106, but thought it hurt my 60 ft time a little, but with a 1 or 2 mph increase in the 1/4 mile.
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103-105 seems to be popular as does 104-106. I have not yet done any cam degree work on a b-12. What would straight up or stock timing be in degrees for reference.
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103-105 seems to be popular as does 104-106. I have not yet done any cam degree work on a b-12. What would straight up or stock timing be in degrees for reference.
I believe that it is 108 on the intake and 105.5 on the exhaust. Those numbers are from memory, so they could be wrong :duh: