Bandit Alley
MODEL SPECIFIC => SUZUKI BANDIT 600 thru 1200 - AIR/OIL COOLED TECHNICAL => Topic started by: Bazza on August 21, 2006, 03:51:08 AM
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Ok, here I go, I am begging for a favour here. I need to get a hold of some needle shims, and they are not available anywhere near me, as all the Radio Shack franchises have been bought out by circuit city.
Can anyone help me out? I am looking for 20 of the buggers.
I will gladly send cash!
Bazza
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I mailed all my extra to 123 , I'll run to Radio Shack and see if they have any more. :beers:
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Radio Shack carrys them still, I just bought a bag of assorteds on Saturday. 3 dollars and change for the bag. They still provide size that fits in the pack. However I dont think there is as many of the size you need in one pack, may have to get a couple.
PIN
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I mailed all my extra to 123 , I'll run to Radio Shack and see if they have any more. :beers:
Hey Chupacabra.....I would owe you big time my friend!
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radio shack U.S. still has them not in Canada though
i have 4 left
i used 2 in each carb (scorpion bolt on) and it runs great now, in fact it may be a tad rich in the mid range but not enough to take 1 out.
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I took out the snorkle, made a differance for me. 3 and 3/4 turns out on the screws. RS 3 slip on and 25 mm off the springs.
PIN
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I still have some left Bazza I'll send you what I have, if we all give you some you'll have 20 in no time. PM us your mailing address. UP here in Canada Radio Shack's been totally bought out. Now a company called "The Source" owns it in Ontario.(Whatever the f*ck the "source" is, dumb name)
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Hi Rider....
Check your inbox!
A little story here...
I actually have an Ivan's jet kit installed on mine which works very well on the bike, but reduced mileage considerably. I used to get 51 mpg now I get 36. (Keep in mind I am talking Imperial MPG)
The other day I rode my buddies B-12 which we installed Dales stage one kit in his bike and he removed it due to fuel consumption. (Well we modified it, putting the stock mains back in, closing up the airbox and shimming the needles with 3 shims). I have to tell you his bike all around is more fun to ride, with the exception of the brutal mid range power mine has as a comparison. (Ivan's kit obtains this with his self made tapered needles) Also, when you do any airbox mods to the B-12, you seriously affect low range power by reducing restriction that is needed in the airbox at very low rpm.
Yes, a jet kit gets you more peak HP, but I am convinced with both Ivan's & Dales kits, that it robs you of low down city riding fun.
But as most of my riding is done on long highway trips & short city jaunts, I think I find the almost stock form much more fun to ride. There has been a huge outrage this summer in my town regarding aftermarket pipes, and I am anticipating that sometime down the road, I will be forced to loose my Yoshi TRS race pipe.
Oh yes, and Gasoline hit $4.68 a US gallon here this summer.
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Ok, I went to Radio Shack and picked some up for you. shoot me a place to mail them too. :beers:
I haven't counted them yet, and the package was opened! I can't see you needing five per needle.
I can't remember what size to use, may just mail the whole bag (5 sizes) seeing theres a shortage of washers up there. :stickpoke:
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it would be the smallest ones.
note that rider and i are CANADIAN
you can talk litres and beaver bucks to us.
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Actually the second smallest in the pack which equates to #2 regular shims. Hey bazza do you want me to send you the 107.5 mains if I'm not using them this week in the kit? It might be a happy medium, that's 2 sizes down from your 112.5's. You could close up some of the airbox holes and see what happens.
I'm going to check to see if my mechanic did indeed only cut a 1" hole for me. If so he may have invariably have done me a favour as I can drop some shims and gain some fuel economy. Remember the shims in the Holeshot kit are little smaller than half the thickness of the radio shack shims. I was fine with one shim and snorkle in which is about 2.5 holeshot shims. The holeshot shims just give you a better metering. I'll try and send these this week as I'm still fine tuning and don't want to be short myself. :grin: I can't seeing you using more than 2 shims per needle of the radio shack jobbies.
Holeshot shims .010 (.25mm)
Radio shack shims .022 (.5mm) (average)
Just as a followup I just did a plug check and #4 is completely black so I'm going to take a shim off that cylinder and see what happens. Dale said in his kit that this may occur and taking off a shim just on that cylinder may help.
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Chupacabra & Rider....
I owe you guys big time!
Cupacabra....check your in box, I sent you an E mail with my address. Let me know what I owe you!
Rider.
Your #4 plug fouling Dilema is the same thing that happened to my buddies bike & we did take care of it by reducing a shim. Man that is odd that it would happen to two bikes in a row. As for your mechanic drilling too small a hole in the airbox, I would recomend just punching another 1/2 diameter hole in the top of the airbox near your big hole. Location is not that important.
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YOu know what bazza that may be a better idea than taking out the airbox and getting hacksaw's and such. I wonder if even 2 1/4" holes would do as I have a 1/4 inch bit at home. Let me see bazza if I can fix this bike without having to use the 107.5's if not than I'll send them to you as well as the shims so you can experiment. I'm sure dropping the mains 2 sizes and covering up say 1/4 to half the holes is going to help you.
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Ok I got 20 shims , I just need to post them.
I'd start with two on each needle and then drop to one.
I bet one each will be the best all round, just a guess.
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two rs shims is woking great for me
no airbox mods just scorpion bolton
plug check shows just a little rich but not enough to be any problem
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YOu know what bazza that may be a better idea than taking out the airbox and getting hacksaw's and such. I wonder if even 2 1/4" holes would do as I have a 1/4 inch bit at home. Let me see bazza if I can fix this bike without having to use the 107.5's if not than I'll send them to you as well as the shims so you can experiment. I'm sure dropping the mains 2 sizes and covering up say 1/4 to half the holes is going to help you.
Hi Rider:
I have installed both Ivan's & Dale's kist into B-12's and while Dale recomends 1 big hole, Ivan recomends 20 small ones. There is no difference, with the drilling of the holes, you are just increasing airflow through the box. If your bike starts running bad, you can just tape up the new holes with duct tape.
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Just to let everyone know it turned out number 4 cylinder was super rich because of a stuck float!! :grin: No biggie, drained float bowls, gave a few wacks, good as new, thanks guys you rock! Do you want those 107.5's Bazza? Oh well got to unscrew cap and put back the shim I took out.
Maybe if I'm super lazy I won't even have to take the airbox out just drill 2 1/4" holes above the snorkle area.
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Bazza, I posted you 20 shims this afternoon. ......good luck with your tuning :beers:
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107.5's sent. Since you have some shims coming in I'll save them for someone else. If you use the radio shack shim remember then are thicker than the Holeshot ones so I can't see you using more than 2 on each needle. I found 1 was good for me.
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Hey Guys:
I can't thank you enough!
Bazza
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By the way Chupacabra & Rider, I received your "care" packages on Friday. Thanks very much once again!
Rider...check your mailbox.
Bazza
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Hey Guys
If one of you has 4 Radio Shack shims to spare, I would like to try them in my 2G 600. All stock engine. Planning on drilling the pilot plugs this winter and shimming the needles to see if I can improve the mid range "hole" at 6000 rpm.
Any shims would be appreciated...
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Hey Guys
If one of you has 4 Radio Shack shims to spare, I would like to try them in my 2G 600. All stock engine. Planning on drilling the pilot plugs this winter and shimming the needles to see if I can improve the mid range "hole" at 6000 rpm.
Any shims would be appreciated...
Hey PM I can help you out! If you E mail me your address I will get em out in the mail to you this weekend!
I am just sharing Chupacabra's niceness! You will have to thank him!
Baz
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Thanks Baz and Chupacabra!!
PM sent today. I only need 4 shims. If you have extras, save them for the next guy. Like you, I live a close to 2000 feet, and for me, I usually ride up from here.
If the single shim doesn't do it, I will spring for an Ivan's kit with the new needles.
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PMackie:
You may want to check with Snubnose. He had his wife's 600 re-jetted and I believe they went with one shim & the next size mains. I understand it was a huge improvement.
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Hey guys. I am really curious about these Radio Shack aka. Circuit City aka. The Source. Shims. Do you know if they are motherboard washers? Are they metal? I have just installed a 2Bros. pipe and, even tho the bike seems to run fine with the exception of noticable backfiring when downshifting,I might like to try the easy (shim) fix as opposed to the total carb breakdown required to install a jet kit.
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Hey Rocketjock:
1st of all, did you remove your carbs and drill out the blocks for the a/f mixture screws?
This in my mind is a must if you installed a new pipe as the stock setting of the a/f mixture screws is lean. This will help more than the shims for decell backfiring.
The shims that chupacabra sent me look exactly like motherboard washers. Radio shack once sold smaller & thinner washers, but were discontinued to my understanding a while ago to the present ones. I did install these on my B-12 and they work fine. As long as they fit in the hole, they will work.
Keep in mind that the shims will only affect mid range operation of your carbs. Ideally you would want to also drill out the plugs on your a/f screws which helps adjust idle.
Carb mods to make things simple work in steps. The a/f screw adjustment helps low rpm fuel supply, the shims help mid range fuel supply & changing the main jets helps things over all. A perfectly tuned Bandit really requires all 3 to obtain a perfect setup, along with air box mods.
The poping you hear on deceleration is normal, and while carb mods helps this, it will always be there to some extent.
If you are happy with the way it's running, and just have some minor decel pop, don't be too concerned as long as you are not running too lean.
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Thanks, Bazza, for all that info. Too bad it's December ugly here and I won't be riding the bike any distance for at least three months. Then I could pull the plugs and see if they're runnin hot. I was hoping the shim thing was all I would have to do, ie., poping the carb tops in bike only. If I have to dismantle them then I'll be going with a stage one kit. The Bandit's an 06 so I really hate to touch anything I don't have to. But Mar. or Apr. is a long way off and a lot can happen by then.
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Hey Rocket:
You would not believe how much a jet kit will add kick in the pants fun to your B-12.
Fuel consumption suffers a great deal. I installed Ivan's kit in mine, and have to say if you love kick in the butt midrange, his kit is worth the buy!
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Hey Rocket:
You would not believe how much a jet kit will add kick in the pants fun to your B-12.
Fuel consumption suffers a great deal. I installed Ivan's kit in mine, and have to say if you love kick in the butt midrange, his kit is worth the buy!
if you have Ivans kit why dont you just drop the needles 1 slot ?you will get your mpg`s back
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To tell you the truth, I gained nothing in MPG by placing the needle clip on the 2nd position versus the 3rd with Ivan's needles. (Remember they have a larger taper to them than the stock needles). In fact the bike would not run well on the 2nd clip position. I would have had to close up some of the airbox holes to get it to run well in midrange.
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Bazza you have a second gen ?
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Hey Snofrog:
Yes, it is a 2002.
Now getting back to my Ivan's jet kit settings, I should add that I live in a pretty uniqe climate. At 2200 feet above sea level, the air is cool & dry here & humidity changes in a moments notice. Both Dale & Ivan do their tuning on the coast, near sea level, so their results and people that live here vary somewhat to say the least.
I used to get around 50 MPG (Imperial gallons) with the stock Bandit. I get an average of around 36-38 MPG with the Jet kit (on the middle clip setting) and the best I ever did on the 2nd clip was 39 MPG. I had a very bad stumble on the mid range at this setting.
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It's funny hearing you guys talk about MPGs. My one ton work truck takes between $120 and $150 a fill. I dare not even try to figure out the gas milage. I just charge the customer for it. My new B12 Bandit gets about 350 odd Kms per tank at around $25. Keeping things in perspective I will never complain about the bikes' gas milage.
Bazza...waddya know about Dynajet carb kits? My dealer can get me one for $109.
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Hey Rocket:
I have had no experiance with Dynojet kits, but others on here have struggled with them.
The only time I have been concerned about mileage is on long trips. That flashing light comes on a little too soon on some roads I ride.
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I tried a dyno jet kit, it worked Ok but the mileage sucked! I have a Hindle slip on, K&N filter and the snorkel removed, with 3 shims on the stock needles and 112.5 mains it runs at 14.7 AFR at 110 KPH cruise and 11.5 (way rich) WOT. I could not get rid of the stumble when I cracked the throttle with the dynojet kit. Now it runs perfect about 53 MPG at 110 KPH.
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Notagix:
Did you do any airbox mods?
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Well I tried drilling holes in the airbox but ended up duct taping the holes up again because I couldn't get rid of the stumble when I cracked the throttle so I just have the snorkel out. I have an LM-1 AFR gauge and it was going too lean! I tried a few different combos but just went back to the stock needles with shims.
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The reason I asked was that with my Bandit I have been running 112.5 mains & have 20 3/8" holes in the airbox. Mine is not running lean at all, but also have Ivan's needles in mine also.
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Think I'm goin with Ivan's kit. But like he advertises, I'm gonna call him first and see what he recommends.