Problems with Holeshot stage 2 settings

[zortan]

i read this discussion, and i feel the same: it's NOT possible to have a 2nd gen B12 well tuned with any kit.
simply under 3k the bike has a stumble. it has it in any possible configuration of jets, needles-shim and slow jet.
i have tested all the possible combinations found that the best is keeping the 15 slow jet, 147,5 main, and 4th notch from top on the needles.
On this configuration the bike work well up to 3 K, but it ALWAYS stumbles off ildle.
This stumble is not possible to remove in any way, in any configuration.
it's 2 years that i drive the bike in that condition, and also i contact dale, but no result.
I'm thinking to come back as OEM.

[rider123]

Well you could go back to stage 1 which is way more drivable and keep %70 of the horsepower gains.

[zortan]

the stage 1 has only larger main jets (110-115 if i remember), it keeps the oem needles ?

[rider123]

Yeah, I'm at 3.75 turns out on 15 pilots and have a 112.5 mainjet. You might be totally fine with a 110 mainjet but I needed a little more juice. I think it's slightly rich, but it's better than slightly lean on the 110's. You cut a 1.5" hole in the airbox and use 5 shims on the needles. Do you still have the nice adjustable needles? You can probably use those. You should get around 112-114 HP instead of 117-119 HP, so you're only losing 3-5 HP and you get better gas mileage, and better drive ability. It's the easiest to live with of all the mods. YOu use the stock filter. If you wanted to use a K&N filter you have to go to 115 or 117.5's. Octane is going to do it this summer so I'll know if hes good as I have a K&N filter. SHould give another couple of ponies up top.

[zortan]

i got the adjustable needles.. but i think they are the problem.
the shape is really different respect to the oem. they are much more conical, the oem are more similar to a cylinder, the conicity is low.
the oem also have the white plastic under the "circlip", this cause the little spring above to be better compressed, and the oem needle just look to be more stable, when you install it, it looks "maded" for it.
The aftermarket needle moves too much and looks really not made for this carbs. This is what i think.
In my life i rebuild a lot of carbs, and normally the needle is firmly positioned, and if you want to move it you must press it with a certain grade of decision, the aftermarket needle of my B12 looks loosen.
I was searching on this forum people that mounts the stage2 holeshot on a 2003 B12, for understand if this is normal but i found no people that gave me precise indications.

I found only lot of problems.

I think the gen 2 carbs are worst that gen 1.

So, this is what i do:

I cut the diaphram spring by 25mm, keeping the cuitted part upside
I install the new holeshot needles (4th groove from top with shim)
i istall the slow jet 17,5, (but the bike was rich as hell, so i come back to 15 at 3,5 turns out)
i install 147,5 main
I put pod filter
i check float bowls (i got the specific gauge)
I remove plastic tube between 1-2 and 3-4 carb

i try all combinations between screw and needle position, but now i'm tired to have my bike 90% of time spreaded around my garage. I want to drive it.

[Dave 02 1200]

i feel the same: it's NOT possible to have a 2nd gen B12 well tuned with any kit.
simply under 3k the bike has a stumble. it has it in any possible configuration of jets, needles-shim and slow jet......This stumble is not possible to remove in any way, in any configuration.

My 2nd Generation B12 is very well tuned and all I did was follow Dale's instructions exactly with no deviation and no shortcuts.

It pulls smoothly from idle on up with no stumble of any kind.

There is truth in the old saying that "Too many cooks spoil the broth".

I would just call Dale again and do what he says.

We live at just 11 feet above sea level so Dale's baseline settings will be very close to spot-on.

[zortan]

i do the same, i follow exactly the instructions.

sorry but for me the big mistake is cutting the carburetor spring.

the carburetor is designed to open diaphram with a certain vaacum, but especially the spring is designed to work ALIGNED.

If you cut it, also if you put bottom side the cutted part the spring works not well, it bends and stretch a bit.

What happens in my bike is that: with the 17,5 slow jet you are so rich at ildle, just you release the clutch for a normal slow takeoff the diaphram opens a little too much, causing the engine to go from "so rich" to "much lean" conditions.

..

For remove the off ildle stumble i need the 27,5 slow jet (!!!!!) but with a fuel level of 15,5mm.

Now i'm so rich at ildle but the bike works smooth.

I buy a set of new spring from suzuki dealer and i found the bike working SO WELL. especially at midrange. Keeped the 27,5 but with only one fuel screw turn out.

Now problem solved.

But this second one is a factory pro stage 3... sorry. With the holeshot i was never able to obtain a decent result. Maybe my bike is "borderline" and much different from others due to a tolerance chain ??