Bandit Alley
MODEL SPECIFIC => SUZUKI BANDIT 600 thru 1200 - AIR/OIL COOLED TECHNICAL => Topic started by: PeteSC on August 18, 2005, 08:28:06 AM
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http://www.ivansperformanceproducts.com/
http://www.holeshot.com
Both places are small shops, operated by enthusiasts....with good customer support.
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yes yes and yes.
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what about us Eurotrash?
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They'll sell kits to you, too. :monkeymoon:
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The Ivan's kit gets my thumbs up!! Plus I hear ALOT of good things about Dale (holeshot).
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They'll sell kits to you, too. :monkeymoon:
And here I thought that my only option was that wonderful company called DynoJetalotandalotandalot. :stickpoke:
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Go with Holeshot Performance. Dale Walker seems to think it is his job to take care of his customers and he is very good at it. Very unusual in this day and age - but very nice! I would recommend him highly without reservation.
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first i want to say hi and that this is my first bike its a 97 bandit 600 that i picked up for only 800 bucks its in very good shape but it needs a new jet kit at least thats what iv been told by my boss (who is the same guy i bought it from) he put a slip on tip and k&n air intake cones, but my Q is i looked at http://www.ivansperformanceproducts.com/bandit600.htm and it says its for 2000& up are there any other places that sell jet kits for the later models?
thanks
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are there any other places that sell jet kits for the later models?
thanks
http://holeshot.com/
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Drill out the air/fuel screw caps and set the screws to 2.5 turns out (may have to turn them out a little more for best tune) . Mine were set bad at the factory, from almost closed to two turns out. Set them all the same. Then get some washers from radio shack and shim the needles. I'd just get two #100 main jet and put them in 1 and four, two and three have 100's already. That will cost you about $20 for the two jets and bag of washers.
Thats just my 2cents,....hope it helps
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hey chupacabra would that be as good as just getting a new jet kit
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I've never bought a kit for my B6 so I can't say. I already had a K&N and a advance and some shims so all I needed was jets. I don't know of a kit for the B6 the comes with needles and that was the only other thing that could help. I noted what size jets came with the kits I could find and went with just getting some jets. I don't think a kit would be any diffrent but then again I cant say, I've never tried one.
I have bought kits for other bikes that came with all the parts I wanted and needed, but I had every thing but jets for my B6 or I would have got a kit. So not saying kits are bad, just saying I didn't need one.
Also I have only a drop in filter not pods so my jet changes were very small, like a stage1, I haven't looked into stage2 or stage3 kits, maybe those have needles.
I'm not a super tuner, just sharing what I did.
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Drill out the air/fuel screw caps and set the screws to 2.5 turns out (may have to turn them out a little more for best tune) . Mine were set bad at the factory, from almost closed to two turns out. Set them all the same. Then get some washers from radio shack and shim the needles. I'd just get two #100 main jet and put them in 1 and four, two and three have 100's already. That will cost you about $20 for the two jets and bag of washers.
Thats just my 2cents,....hope it helps
Pretty sad that your bike came with those crummy settings! But, what the hey - we can feex them, no? You seem to have a running start on this problem already.
Just for the record, the '99 B12 came with the following size jets: Main: #102.5, Pilot: #37.5, Pilot screw: "Pre-Set" (whatever that means). Having done some rejetting before, it turns out that these jet size specs are just "jumping-off" points (baseline settings) and there's usually a lot to be gained by the do-it-yourselfer in the way of HP, economy, and rideability. Mikunis are easy to work on and parts are readily available. Good books are also available on Mikunis.
Since the engine runs lean on both ends of the RPM spectrum, it pays to retune for better rideability by correcting the A/F ratio off idle with the pilot screws and by trying different pilot jet sizes and by improving the air and fuel delivery at the high end, starting with a Pingel shutoff valve in the tank. The stock shutoff doesn't flow enough at high RPM's. Then make sure there's enough air up there as well by yanking out the snorkel and/or making the 2"x2" mod to the airbox (pod filters look cool but aren't so great in the rain). If all this is done right, you probably won't need the Radio Shack washers.
You suggest using the same main jets on all 4 carbs. I seem to get better results by making the center cylinders one jet size bigger (richer) since the centers on air-cooled engines run hotter than the outer cylinders. You may want to experiment by buying 3 different sets of mains, starting with the size just above stock and getting bigger.
While an air/fuel meter would be nice, I want some day to get a set of thermocouples and a 4-channel meter so I can do some dynamic testing of the exhaust gas temps. Using EGT's would allow me to rejet until each cylinder is delivering the same torque under WOT. It's also possible to compensate for mechanical and wear differences this way on older engines. There's a few tenths to be gained there, I think. The idea is to get all four cylinders to do the same amount of work.
Anyway, I'm prolly preaching to the choir here. Good luck!
Herb
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Already started looking at exhaust options and figured I would go with the Yosh system, but after seeing that high-mount Holeshot I think I'm in love....nice.
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I've done my fair share of jet kit work on a zx9r and I'll be doing some work soon on my new 02 B12.
If you just want to improve the ride of the bike then go for the basic stage 1 drop in which really means new jets, carb sync, and possibly new needles or at least shimmed needles.
If on the other hand you want every ounce of power you can get out of the bike then you need to go for a stage 2 or 3 kit. Once you go above a stage one you generally need to get a higher flow air filter(K&N or BMC), exhaust(slip or full system), and for the B12 a timing advance kit.
holeshot looks to have done a lot of work on the B6 and B12 so if you want to go all out then they would be a good choice. On the other hand if you just want a stage 1 kit then you may do just as well going with someone besides holeshot. I've used a Factory jet kit and they are so/so. I'm personally going to purchase a lot from holeshot next month to get my new bike running better and hopefully improve the fuel economy.
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Ivan is an old friend of mine; I live near him in Rockland County, NY. He's somehwat of an odd dude at times, but very fussy about getting things done right, and a good guy overall. I have his needles in my current '98 B12, and highly recommend.
I'm running a Yosh RS-3 end can, stock paper filter (never had luck with K&N's over years/bikes).. stock pilots.. and I think I'm one size up on the mains (I forget and I'm out on business in China now). The key thing was getting the needles and fuel-screws to jibe. As I remember (ah, sh*t), I think I was pretty wide with the fuel screws and somewhere in the middle of the needles. [How's THAT for helpful?? When I get back I'll post my exact settings.. which I've used for both my 1st Gen B12's to good effect].
Don't forget to drill 15 1/2" holes in the top/back of your airbox, and chuck out the snorkel.
PS... my B12's have been NOTORIOUS for running crappy when the air filter gets even slightly dirty (you often can't tell by looking). This just might be due to my tuning..
Anyway, the Black Bastid runs great, no flat spots right to redline.
Suggestions welcomed!
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Great to hear Ivan's products are working for you, they certainly worked in my 05 B1200, easiest plug and play full carb/airbox/exhaust mod I ever installed.
No suggestions but do have a request. If you really live close to Ivan and he's your friend, for all of us here with B1250's, next time you see him ask him when if ever is he going to come out with remapping and uncorking mods for the B1250 as it would be great to have more then one source of supply.
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Re: Ivan, un-corking / re-mapping mods, B1250. I'm currently in China, but I just dropped him a phone message five minutes ago and suggested it to him. I'll be back in New York around Christmas, and will go see him then, as I want to upgrade my 1st Gen B12.
In terms of such, what have you guys got for recommendations in terms of SOFT engine mods? I'm considering a bore kit and some light head work... I need to keep the motor flexible and reliable (especially if caught in summer traffic jams).. but I'm looking for more OOMPH.
Whaddyas think? 1216 kit (Wiseco??) and some port-polishing do it? How far can I go before I run into heat / wear problems?
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"tighten it 'til it loosens, then back-off a quarter turn"
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JE has a better rep that Wiseco for the SACS motors from what I hear. APE Racing (http://www.gsxrzone.com/) and Holeshot (http://www.holeshot.com/bandit/) have JE pistons for the B12. (APE also sells Wiseco.) The Holeshot 1216 JE kit has lower compression (10.8:1) than the off-the-shelf JE 1216 pistons APE sells (13:1), so for a street bike, it might be more of what you're looking for. 1216's live just fine on the street, 1246's will work OK too - but you may want to avoid slow moving in hot weather. Hopefully BHolland will weigh in on this one since he runs a 1246.
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Dy-no-MITE, Red. Well appreciated.
What about headwork? Any thoughts/wisdom on that front?
"BHolland.. paging Mr Holland.."
PS... anyone know how to post a PHOTO here? [Duhh..]
I'd love to show off the Midnight B12.
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Dy-no-MITE, Red. Well appreciated.
What about headwork? Any thoughts/wisdom on that front?
"BHolland.. paging Mr Holland.."
PS... anyone know how to post a PHOTO here? [Duhh..]
I'd love to show off the Midnight B12.
For posting photos, read this thread. (http://forums.banditalley.net/index.php?topic=520.0)
For headwork advice, talk to Dale Walker @ Holeshot, the folks @ APE, and/or contact our member, Fast Larry, and see if his friend, Katana John, is still doing headwork. Plus anything Mr. Holland might have to add. :bandit:
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2 words, for jet kits, and after the research I've done. And advice from Dynotuners and race teams.
Factory Pro.
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2 words, for jet kits, and after the research I've done. And advice from Dynotuners and race teams.
Factory Pro.
THIS MAY BE A STUPID QUESTION.....BUT WHAT IS FACTORY PRO?....
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2 words, for jet kits, and after the research I've done. And advice from Dynotuners and race teams.
Factory Pro.
THIS MAY BE A STUPID QUESTION.....BUT WHAT IS FACTORY PRO?....
Fractory Pro is the company name.
http://www.factorypro.com/products/carb.html
http://www.factorypro.com/index.htm
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what about us Eurotrash?
You can be your own best friend when it comes to tuning a bike by learning everything that relates to the topic of carb/FI tuning. Relying on "experts" will leave you wondering whether or not you did the right thing, and will do nothing to educate you on tuning an engine yourself. However, it will help impoverish you and enable your "expert" to drive a better car than you do. Self-education is the surest way to eventual satisfaction - there is no short-cut or substitute.
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what about us Eurotrash?
Er, you have to get after the Euro Banks to quit screwing over us pore "Murray-kans" with demands for direct bank transfers. This removes all protections for the seller on the west bank of the Hatlantic Hocean. You want our goodies? Then insist on a few rule changes regarding what's acceptable payment. Deal with us on a credit-card basis by making payment from American credit-card companies acceptable in Europe. Insist, through your so-called representatives (ours are no better than yours), that all credit cards must be accepted worldwide. Anything less is a restraint of trade! Screw PayPal! They are just an integral component of the worldwide control system (why else did you think we were allowed to have computers?).
Snerd rules!
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Drill out the air/fuel screw caps and set the screws to 2.5 turns out (may have to turn them out a little more for best tune) . Mine were set bad at the factory, from almost closed to two turns out. Set them all the same. Then get some washers from radio shack and shim the needles. I'd just get two #100 main jet and put them in 1 and four, two and three have 100's already. That will cost you about $20 for the two jets and bag of washers.
Thats just my 2cents,....hope it helps
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Pretty sad that your bike came with those crummy settings! But, what the hey - we can feex them, no? You seem to have a running start on this problem already.
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Thanks for the reply.
You never know what you'll find when you dig into your bike's guts, especially if it wasn't bought new, like my 1999 1200. It really does pay to do the work yourself, if you're at all mechanically inclined and have lots of time and a second bike.
I went so far as to remove the carbs and attempted to clean them with a spray cleaner, but failed to do the long soak in NAPA #6401 (the really nasty stuff), so it didn't work. Trying to get the bike running for a visiting son-in-law, I got a Holeshot Stage I jetkit, with the K&N Filter and 5 deg. advancer, and had a dealer install the works. I cut the 2" square hole in the aircleaner myself, and used RV roof sealant to stick flyscreening over the two holes to keep stuff out of the airbox.
Dale Walker Holeshot) included only those items in his kit that he felt would work best with a stock exhaust manifold and mid-pipe, plus a Yoshimura RS-3 Can and the 2" square aircleaner hole (Yes, I talked with him before ordering). The torque on this '99 1200 is now even more amazing than it was 9 years ago. THANKS, DALE! You helped make all the difference in the way the old 1200 behaved.
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(Original posting follows)
Just for the record, the '99 B12 came with the following size jets: Main: #102.5, Pilot: #37.5, Pilot screw: "Pre-Set" (whatever that means). Having done some rejetting before, it turns out that these jet size specs are just "jumping-off" points (baseline settings) and there's usually a lot to be gained by the do-it-yourselfer in the way of HP, economy, and rideability. Mikunis are easy to work on and parts are readily available. Good books are also available on Mikunis.
Since the engine runs lean on both ends of the RPM spectrum, it pays to retune for better rideability by correcting the A/F ratio off idle with the pilot screws and by trying different pilot jet sizes and by improving the air and fuel delivery at the high end, starting with a Pingel shutoff valve in the tank. The stock shutoff doesn't flow enough at high RPM's. Then make sure there's enough air up there as well by yanking out the snorkel and/or making the 2"x2" mod to the airbox (pod filters look cool but aren't so great in the rain). If all this is done right, you probably won't need the Radio Shack washers.
You suggest using the same main jets on all 4 carbs. I seem to get better results by making the center cylinders one jet size bigger (richer) since the centers on air-cooled engines run hotter than the outer cylinders. You may want to experiment by buying 3 different sets of mains, starting with the size just above stock and getting bigger.
While an air/fuel meter would be nice, I want some day to get a set of thermocouples and a 4-channel meter so I can do some dynamic testing of the exhaust gas temps. Using EGT's would allow me to rejet until each cylinder is delivering the same torque under WOT. It's also possible to compensate for mechanical and wear differences this way on older engines. There's a few tenths to be gained there, I think. The idea is to get all four cylinders to do the same amount of work.
Anyway, I'm prolly preaching to the choir here. Good luck!
Herb
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So what are the jet sizes / part numbers used in the holeshot stage 1 kit?
According to this trusted site,
http://www.portablepct.com/fastlarry/banditfaq.htm#fuel_system
the shim sizes are the same as stock. I already have a high flow filter and aftermarket exhaust. I'm not looking to question the quality of the holeshot kit, but I really only want to change my main and pilot jets right now .. can anyone offer some info?