Author Topic: The ever pressing search for more power  (Read 4839 times)

Offline DaneJurrous

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The ever pressing search for more power
« on: January 31, 2013, 03:39:39 PM »
So I am looking at getting a little more power out of my 02 bandit 1200 and after browsing the forum looking at numerous threads it is blatantly obvious that they are easy to get some power out of fairly cheap. I have been riding it for the last year and love the bike but for some reason something calls to make me want more from it.

I am looking at getting a bolt on delkevic silencer and throwing in a stage 1 jet kit from dale walker (holeshot) which comes with the 5 degree advancer. Are there any pitfalls I should be aware of while doing this or any other upgrades I should do at the same time to make it all flow efficiently?

Mike.
1981 GS750L - Pepe (Cafe build) 2002 B12s - El Bandito

Offline txbanditrydr

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Re: The ever pressing search for more power
« Reply #1 on: January 31, 2013, 11:34:21 PM »
 :thumb:  The Holeshot Stage One kit and a new can will give you a good combination of added power and likely better mileage.  You can install the jet kit first but you won't really feel much of a power upgrade until the can gets put on.  I would try to do them at the same time.  Be sure to sync the carbs after the jet kit install.  Wouldn't be a bad time to put new plugs in too unless they're fairly new.

You'll find a good jet kit installation guide in the download section - much better than Holeshot's instruction sheet (unless they've improved it over the years).

Post up your progress and good luck.
'01 B600S ... sold
'05 B1200S ... Top 20 mods... #20 through #2 - All The Usual Ones, Yada, Yada  & #1... 150,000+ Miles and Counting!!!!

Offline txbanditrydr

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Re: The ever pressing search for more power
« Reply #2 on: January 31, 2013, 11:41:19 PM »
One more thing....  If you haven't gotten rid of or at least disabled the PAIR valve, this would be a great time to do so.  I did the quickie job - just removed the valve, plugged the vacuum line and connected the PAIR hoses with a hose repair barb.  I even have block-off plates but never got around to installing them - something about getting the tubes off being a PITA.  If nothing else it'll be easy to put back stock this way.  Really helps getting rid of the popping noise on de-cel after you put the jet kit and pipe on.
'01 B600S ... sold
'05 B1200S ... Top 20 mods... #20 through #2 - All The Usual Ones, Yada, Yada  & #1... 150,000+ Miles and Counting!!!!

Offline DaneJurrous

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Re: The ever pressing search for more power
« Reply #3 on: February 01, 2013, 12:53:22 PM »
Thanks for the info! I replaced the plugs last year (only a few months ago) when I was getting ready to put the bike up for winter and did a valve clearance adjustment at the same time. I had contemplated getting rid of the PAIR system although if it is effecting popping on decel, its gunna get gone fast when I swap the can and plug in the jet kit.

The 5 degree advancer that comes from holeshot I have heard it makes the engine run quite a bit hotter is this true or should I not really worry about it?
1981 GS750L - Pepe (Cafe build) 2002 B12s - El Bandito

Offline txbanditrydr

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Re: The ever pressing search for more power
« Reply #4 on: February 01, 2013, 03:36:02 PM »
The 5 degree advancer that comes from holeshot I have heard it makes the engine run quite a bit hotter is this true or should I not really worry about it?

Follow the set-up instructions to the letter - Holeshot's kit is about as close to plug-n-play as you'll get.  I run an oil temp gauge and have never noticed any increase in running/operating temps.  I believe you'll likely run a tad cooler since the engine won't be so lean from the factory - but don't hold me to that statement.  Use the advancer and as a final note... use a new OEM air filter too.

'01 B600S ... sold
'05 B1200S ... Top 20 mods... #20 through #2 - All The Usual Ones, Yada, Yada  & #1... 150,000+ Miles and Counting!!!!

Offline DaneJurrous

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Re: The ever pressing search for more power
« Reply #5 on: February 01, 2013, 05:53:17 PM »
Awesome! What oil temperature gauge do you use, is it one that screws into the oil fill or is it something different?
1981 GS750L - Pepe (Cafe build) 2002 B12s - El Bandito

Offline txbanditrydr

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Re: The ever pressing search for more power
« Reply #6 on: February 02, 2013, 10:48:56 PM »
Oil filler screw type gauge....  more bling than anything else but it does work.
'01 B600S ... sold
'05 B1200S ... Top 20 mods... #20 through #2 - All The Usual Ones, Yada, Yada  & #1... 150,000+ Miles and Counting!!!!

Offline rider123

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Re: The ever pressing search for more power
« Reply #7 on: February 03, 2013, 02:51:58 PM »
After fitting the Advancer you may have to go up a grade of gasoline. I can run fine on Regular(87) however when it gets hot out I get some slight pre-ignition in the summertime. I use mid-grade(89) with the advancer on there to eliminate it. Remember you should use the LOWEST octane level that you can that doesn't give you pre-ignition anything higher is not only a waste of money but will give you less power and encourage coking. Also if you use the larger pilots in the kit(I don't recommend it) you need to turn the mixture screws 1 1/2 turns in to achieve the same level of fueling at idle. For example:

15 pilots(stock) with holeshot kit 3.75 turns out(counter clockwise)from LIGHTLY seated and work up or down.
17.5 pilots with holeshot kit start around 2.25 turns out from LIGHTLY seated and work up or down.

For the record, Dale recommends using the larger 17.5 pilots if your under 3000 ft altitude which I am however it was rich as hell and harder to tune in. The best I got was around the 2.25 or 2.5 turn mark with the larger pilots however it was weird, Super rich down low. Try both if you like but if you want to do the guarenteed way use the stock pilots at 3 3/4 turns out from stock. That should get you close. However if you feel like experimenting by all means go ahead, just because the larger pilots were too rich on my bike doesn't mean that they won't be perfect on yours, especially if you're on the coast. For fun I'm going to experiment with the K&N panel filter in the springtime but I need to order larger jets as even the richest main jet in the kit is slightly too light with the K&N panel filter.

Remember, DO NOT USE the K&N panel filter with the standard stage 1 kit. I've been very very close with the jets in the kit using the larger pilots and the largest mainjet but it gets a little rich down low and lean up top. You should use the OEM filter only with the holeshot kit unless you're like me and are experimenting. If I can get the Holeshot kit to work with a K&N filter I will post the settings(my guess is a 115 size mainjet with some stock pilot combo)so if people want a few more ponies with their holeshot kit they can. I've definitely had more power with the K&N filter in my experiments but the fueling wasn't as clean as the standard holeshot stage 1 setup. As I said, I'll try again with new jets in the spring for the hell of it to see if I can clean it up.


If I had to do it all over again I would use the stock pilots at the recommended level then go from there. If I needed to turn out the screws past 4 turns, only then I would consider going up on the pilots. All bikes are different and they need more/less fuel depending on temperature and altitude. I've seen some guys here use as low as 3.25 on the stock pilots to as high as 4.25(I would go up on the pilots at that point) turns out. There are alot of guys here that will help you out. And I agree with txbanditr oil temp or pressure gauges are more bling than zing, I wouldn't waste your money on them. Maybe if you had it hopped up for drag racing with GSXR cams and a stage 2 with full system with nitrous or some crazy setup then it might be worth it but at that point you'd be into the thousands of dollars and a couple hundred bucks for an oil temp gauge or oil pressure gauge will be the least of your worries  :grin:

Opps sorry a couple of more tips. When putting the advancer on there put the bike on the side stand so most of the oil is on the left hand side of the bike, you may want to put some newspapers down as well to catch any drips. That way you don't have to drain the oil out of the bike.

If you want instead of removing the carbs all together you can just loosen the throttle cable enough to slide the carbs in the boots either left or right and tilt them so you can get the floats off and the mains in there without having to remove the carbs, however it is advised you take them off entirely at some point to check float level.
« Last Edit: February 04, 2013, 11:20:14 PM by rider123 »
2005 Bandit 1200, Modified Holeshot Stage 1 with 17.5 pilots 2.75 turns out, and 110 mains 5 shims. Muzzy Slip on w/mid-pipe, stock filter. 1.5" hole in the airbox lid.

Offline DaneJurrous

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Re: The ever pressing search for more power
« Reply #8 on: February 04, 2013, 12:59:30 PM »
Oil filler screw type gauge....  more bling than anything else but it does work.

Ha ha I was just curious as I had seen some bolt on types for my other bike and was curious if they made one similar.

Quote
After fitting the Advancer you may have to go up a grade of gasoline. I can run fine on Regular(87) however when it gets hot out I get some slight pre-ignition in the summertime. I use mid-grade(89) with the advancer on there to eliminate it. Remember you should use the LOWEST octane level that you can that doesn't give you pre-ignition anything higher is not only a waste of money but will give you less power and encourage coking. Also if you use the larger pilots in the kit(I don't recommend it) you need to turn the mixture screws 1 1/2 turns in to achieve the same level of fueling at idle. For example:

15 pilots(stock) with holeshot kit 3.75 turns out(counter clockwise)from LIGHTLY seated and work up or down.
17.5 pilots with holeshot kit start around 2.25 turns out from LIGHTLY seated and work up or down.

For the record, Dale recommends using the larger 17.5 pilots if your under 3000 ft altitude which I am however it was rich as hell and harder to tune in. The best I got was around the 2.25 or 2.5 turn mark with the larger pilots however it was weird, Super rich down low. Try both if you like but if you want to do the guarenteed way use the stock pilots at 3 3/4 turns out from stock. That should get you close. However if you feel like experimenting by all means go ahead, just because the larger pilots were too rich on my bike doesn't mean that they won't be perfect on yours, especially if you're on the coast. For fun I'm going to experiment with the K&N panel filter in the springtime but I need to order larger jets as even the richest main jet in the kit is slightly too light with the K&N panel filter.

Remember, DO NOT USE the K&N panel filter with the standard stage 1 kit. I've been very very close with the jets in the kit using the larger pilots and the largest mainjet but it gets a little rich down low and lean up top. You should use the OEM filter only with the holeshot kit unless you're like me and are experimenting. If I can get the Holeshot kit to work with a K&N filter I will post the settings(my guess is a 115 size mainjet with some stock pilot combo)so if people want a few more ponies with their holeshot kit they can. I've definitely had more power with the K&N filter in my experiments but the fueling wasn't as clean as the standard holeshot stage 1 setup. As I said, I'll try again with new jets in the spring for the hell of it to see if I can clean it up.


If I had to do it all over again I would use the stock pilots at the recommended level then go from there. If I needed to turn out the screws past 4 turns, only then I would consider going up on the pilots. All bikes are different and they need more/less fuel depending on temperature and altitude. I've seen some guys here use as low as 3.25 on the stock pilots to as high as 4.25(I would go up on the pilots at that point) turns out. There are alot of guys here that will help you out. And I agree with txbanditr oil temp or pressure gauges are more bling than zing, I wouldn't waste your money on them. Maybe if you had it hopped up for drag racing with GSXR cams and a stage 2 with full system with nitrous or some crazy setup then it might be worth it but at that point you'd be into the thousands of dollars and a couple hundred bucks for an oil temp gauge or oil pressure gauge will be the least of your worries  Very Happy

Opps sorry a couple of more tips. When putting the advancer on there put the bike on the side stand so most of the oil is on the left hand side of the bike, you may want to put some newspapers down as well to catch any drips. That way you don't have to drain the oil out of the bike.

If you want instead of removing the carbs all together you can just loosen the throttle cable enough to slide the boots either left or right and tilt them so you can get the floats off and the mains in there without having to remove the carbs, however it is advised you take them off entirely at some point to check float level.

Wow that is definitely some good information. Thanks Rider123!

I am planning on leaving the stock filter in it so far as all my research I have done shows that it flows very well and for what I am doing would be over kill as you said to put in the K&N. As for the pilots I am currently at about 4000-4500 ft here in SLC, UT so what pilots would you recommend using? just keep the stock ones I am guessing at 3.75 turns then tune from there?
1981 GS750L - Pepe (Cafe build) 2002 B12s - El Bandito

Offline rider123

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Re: The ever pressing search for more power
« Reply #9 on: February 04, 2013, 08:49:44 PM »
Yes definitely use the stockers(15's). And its good to start out at 3.75. You are at a higher altitude so you may have to turn them in/reduce a shim/go down a mainjet size or not. When you buy the kit respond back. Just use the standard settings for now that come with the kit and we can help you from there.
« Last Edit: February 04, 2013, 08:59:30 PM by rider123 »
2005 Bandit 1200, Modified Holeshot Stage 1 with 17.5 pilots 2.75 turns out, and 110 mains 5 shims. Muzzy Slip on w/mid-pipe, stock filter. 1.5" hole in the airbox lid.