Bandit Alley
MODEL SPECIFIC => SUZUKI BANDIT 600 thru 1200 - AIR/OIL COOLED TECHNICAL => Topic started by: slo coach on August 28, 2005, 06:33:21 AM
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on a 2 G 1200 if you pipe,rejet. airbox,snorkel out,needle it ,you will only get .3 of a second better through the 1/4 mile...
yes or no..
slo coach
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Take it from a long time dragracer, gains are hard to come by, if you gain .3, you've done good. People that claim 15 to 20 horsepower on an exhaust change are fooling themselves. It takes bigger, higher compression pistons, bigger valves, ported head, and bigger lift cams, to get any real horsepower gains. My costs were around $100.00 per 1 hp, or $ 5,000 for 50 hp. That is figuring in labor cost of $2,000 for my labor.
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I guess there are too many lying dynos out there, then, Bill!
I never had my bike dynoed when it was stock. I had it dynoed at a portable dyno when it just had a slipon, and wasn't jetted. I think it was 107 HP. (Been so long, I don't remember exactly.)
I think the '99 1200 was somewhere under 100 hp stock.
When I had my jet kit installed by a local tuner, the bike dynoed at 117.8 HP. That's with a K and N filter, Ignition advancer, Holeshot exhaust and jet kit.
From what I can tell, the first 15-20 HP extra on the Bandit12 are the cheap ones, whatever you try to squeeze out beyond that gets expensive.
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I guess there are too many lying dynos out there, then, Bill!
I never had my bike dynoed when it was stock. I had it dynoed at a portable dyno when it just had a slipon, and wasn't jetted. I think it was 107 HP. (Been so long, I don't remember exactly.)
I think the '99 1200 was somewhere under 100 hp stock.
When I had my jet kit installed by a local tuner, the bike dynoed at 117.8 HP. That's with a K and N filter, Ignition advancer, Holeshot exhaust and jet kit.
From what I can tell, the first 15-20 HP extra on the Bandit12 are the cheap ones, whatever you try to squeeze out beyond that gets expensive.
That looks like , 117 minus 107 = 10 hp gain, for around $1,000, just my guess. :beers:
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Well, actually the first dyno run, was with an unjetted bike, with a Holeshot slipon/midpipe.
A guy was doing cheap dyno runs at Road Atlanta, and I said 'what the heck'.
The stock '99's were typically dynoing under 100 hp...and even assuming my bike would dyno at a generous 100 hp, 117.8 HP is within the 15-20 hp claims.
Another local Bandit 1200, a 2000, had his jet kit installed at the same place, and was slightly over 118.
I got my Holeshot jet kit USED in trade for a set of OEM crash bars, and got a month old K and N filter with it.
(Long story, the guy was building up a '99, just had installed the stuff...and came across a '00 that had a full system Akrapovic, stage 2, and thousands of $$ worth of junk........with under 500 miles, for $5000. He sold off the stuff he just put on his '99, then was selling it.)
I did buy the ignition advancer from Holeshot, for what...$50? (Somewhere around there.)
The slipon I bought in '99.....$320.
I paid an experienced drag tuner to install the jet kit....$200.
(Rob, at Fishs Customs in Columbia, SC.)
I'm still under $700 for my 15-20 HP, and paid somebody to install the jet kit, and dyno it.
I can live with that....... :grin:
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I prefer going to the track, over going to a shop for a dyno run. Dynos are good for tuning, only if you go to the same dyno every time, and at $50.00 a trip, it is more than I like to pay. The strip is $20 on Friday night, and you can make adjustment between runs. I will take advantage of the $10 dyno pulls at the track, when they have them, more for thr A/F ratio than the HP and Torque numbers.
The 1200 Bandit will gain more from exhaust and jet kit than a pure sport bike, because it is so mildly tuned from the factory.
The GSXR 1100, "1127cc", makes around 125 hp, with pipe and jet kit, and the difference is mostly the cams.
I have had several GSXR 1100s, this is my first Bandit.
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So there Pete , I guess he put a schooling on you . All the dyno's at holeshot and other sites are wrong :duh:
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Yeah, maybe I could have slipped the Dyno guy an extra 20, and ended up with 200 HP B12!
I've only had the bike dynoed twice. Once completely stock, except for the slipon, and the second time when I had the jet kit installed.
That's been 4-5 years ago. As long as the sucker is running well, I doubt I'll ever do it again.
I've never messed with my carbs, or know crap about them.
I have been running a 'Bandit' board of some type for over 5 years, and have sucked up some info....some of it worthwhile!
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"Note: These are true numbers measured on Dales in-house Dynojet 150 Dynamometer with the "Win Pep" program and then reformated for the web.
The Holeshot compound is about 200 feet above sea level and the dyno room stays at a constant temperature between 70-80° F. These results were also achieved with Dales tuning, which is a bonus. Dale uses his dyno as a measuring tool for development and testing only.
Be aware, that dynos, dyno operators, conditions and bikes can vary 3-8 hp, so this should only be used as a reference for before and after results. Dynojet 250 Dynos now commonly used, usually read about 7 to 9 % higher than a 150 model."This is stright from Holeshots Website
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And according to those Holeshot dyno figures, a stock bike put out 100.7 hp and with a Stage II jet kit & slip-on put out 115.5 hp. Not 15-20, but only a mere 14.8 hp increase. With a full header instead of the slip-on, he did manage 119.0 hp, for a 18.3 hp increase.
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........Stock....Stage 2 + Slip-On..Stage 2 + Full System
RPM......HP / TQ.......HP / TQ.......HP / TQ
3000..33.0/56.2....34.1/57.2....34.2/57.8
3500..41.9/63.0....44.6/63.6....46.1/63.3
4000..48.0/63.0....51.4/67.5....53.5/70.0
4500..56.1/65.1....64.2/74.9....64.6/75.1
5000..63.5/66.5....71.5/75.1....67.9/72.2
5500..72.0/68.6....80.6/76.9....78.1/74.2
6000..79.2/69.4....89.8/78.6....89.4/78.2
6500..83.6/67.5....98.9/79.9....99.2/80.6
7000..87.9/66.0...105.5/79.1...106.1/78.4
7500..92.0/64.2...110.2/77.2...112.0/77.4
8000..93.4/61.3...113.1/74.3...115.4/76.8
8500..93.0/57.5...115.6/69.6...118.2/72.7
9000..94.2/54.4..116.6/69.8..120.9/70.6
9500..89.7/49.6...111.1/61.3...117.8/66.9
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I found the old dyno sheet.
Yeah, Dynos can or will be 'off'.........
This is a biggish file, so I'll do it as a link
http://www.banditalley.com/mystuff/fishdyno.jpg
OK, I did lie. Max HP was 117.7........... with the vortex slipon, midpipe, K and N filter, 2 inch mod, ignition advance.
I even found the dyno sheet from the track dyno, when the bike didn't have a jet kit, but had the slip on, and probably the snorkel removed, and a k and n filter.........and it was maxing 110-111 hp, on a Dynojet 100.
Bantana may remember, he dynoed his Bandit 750 on same dyno right before I did, and it was somewhere in the high 90's for HP.
The installation of the jet kit, by a 'pro', smoothed the bike out quite a bit, and only yielded 5 hp or so over the bike without the jet kit, but the same slipon. (Not stock)
I'm not in an HP race. The bike just runs so much better the way it's set up.....
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And according to those Holeshot dyno figures, a stock bike put out 110.7 hp and with a Stage II jet kit & slip-on put out 115.5 hp. Not 15-20, but only a mere 14.8 hp increase. With a full header instead of the slip-on, he did manage 119.0 hp, for a 18.3 hp increase.
Paul - I'm guessing you meant that stock was 101.7. Either that or you're math-challenged like me. :lol:
Brian, are those your numbers or something from Dale's site?
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Thanks for catching my typo... I hit the "1" key twice instead of the "0" key twice. It was supposed to be 100.7 - and I went back and fixed it.
All the Holeshot dyno numbers from the stock/Stage 1/Stage 2/Stage 2 w/header can be seen here. (http://www.holeshot.com/dynocharts/dyno_bandit_1200_2001.shtml)
These seem similar to, but not the same as Brian's numbers.
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My two cents, I think all the horsepower talk over shadows the question? Can these mods gain .3 second in the 1/4? My answer, maybe, but I think that fraction of time can be gain and lost from run to run. Gaining Experience is the biggest upgrade you can do. I gained a full second with my bike last year just learning the right way to race my bike. Of course my bike already had these mods so I don`t know what it did stock. (Consistancy pays horsepower cost) the dyno, 101 stock 122 after pipe, jet kit, timing advancer you know the easy stuff but we spend a little extra time in the carbs and timing. Could be a happy dyno, could be air pressure in the rear tire it all make a differnce in the dyno room. At the track it`s all about the ride fast or slow. A good rider can make a slow bike run its fastast. A bad rider is just a bad rider. Just my two cents.
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You're absolutely right 12sdrag!
Once you've got the consistancy part down, quicker times will take more power. Will 15 extra ponies drop you down .3 sec? I don't know. I've never been that great of a m/c dragger to find out.
Did drop 2 full seconds off my time thru the 1/4 in a car by swapping out a 3.23 open pumpkin with a 4.63 posi though. :grin:
That change did make the car pretty impractical for freeway travel though.
But a car that does wheelies is always impressive. :bigok:
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this is almost depressing..it all confirms i am a crap rider,,
therthinke are loads of posts whichsay
my stock standard bandit drags my fat 20 stone arse through mthe 1/4 in 11.6 and kitted 11.3
it goes hard out
it lifts the front wheel in 2 and 3 gears
i think it can do a high 10's
etc etc etc .i had about 12 runs other day and while new to it i couldn't do better than12.3's .
any suggestions on rear tyre pressure on avon azzuros as it definitly slipsthrough 1'st gear,
lots of good info..thanks but i think the point of the original question was to point out that you have to do loads of extras to only get a little bit extra
cheers slo coach
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Hey slo coach, Have you lowered the bike? straped the front down? what are you leaveing the line at (rpms)? what is 20 stones? I weigh 250 lbs. my bandit runs in the 10`s but the thing I like the most is the four 11.01 runs in a row. still lost that night :duh: :crybaby:
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12sDrag
i roll throttle to 4500,then let out clutch to take up travel,then i ride clutch and gas it with the rear tyre drifting sometimes ??
not lowered,but front and rear suspension set one harder than factory,and rear avon left set at 42 as forgot to do anything about it.
don't know what strapped down means ,except the hyabuasa that insisted on thrashing me,did comment his front was strapped down,but he was doing 10.5 to 10.9 and as you would know thats a horizon job on me,
in fact with only a bout a1.3 or 1.4 time difference it represents bloody miles in distance i'm behind.
i weigh 80kg's or about 175Ibs
other thing i noticed was i couldn't decide if i should change into 4th as the line seemed to approach fast so i did all the runs in 3rd gear only not quite on red line,but i think when the speed got higher the cars seemed to obviously have more speed than me and closed or pulled away
14 tooth on the front
any ideas,besides get back to the retirement home,
cheers slo coach
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slo coach, where are you located? Strapping the front down is just that. A pull type strap that disallows the front forks from rebounding upon acceleration. You can buy one at any performance shop. lowering the whole bike will help alot.(I drop the front 1 inch in threes and then pull the strap down about 2 inches. I lower the rear about 3 inches with lower links) As for wheel spin, if you do a good burn out before the run and it still spins try not doing one. air pressure I only let about 3 to 5 psi out, I don`t have a problem with wheel spin my bike just wants to do wheelies. Stupid question is your drag strip 1320 feet? I`m half way through fifth gear across the line with a 14-45. Hey don`t be afraid to talk to some of the big guys at the track most of them are more than willing to help a new guy. It`s when you start to win races they seem to shy away. Have fun and practice.