Bandit Alley
MODEL SPECIFIC => SUZUKI BANDIT 650 and 1250 - WATER COOLED TECHNICAL => Topic started by: wilinfla on November 26, 2007, 01:17:11 PM
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I just called the dealer for my initial service. I was surprised when they stated it was 3 hours and $350. They said that the valves have to be adjusted, this is the reason for the 3 hours. The owners manual however doesn't show a valve adjustment until 14.5K miles if I am reading it right. Has anyone else had this experience with their initial service? The dealer said that the valves have to be adjusted every other service, but the owners manual doesn't seem to agree. Thanks for any information.
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I never took my 1250 in for any sheduled service. all I did was make sure everything was tight, Levels were full and rode I only put 7500kms on the bike this year. My valve adjustments will get done as soon as I start to hear some slap going on in the top end not before, I used to set my valves at the required intervals all the time but found that most often they were not out of spec so it was a waste of time and money.
My dealer told me the initial sevice was 2 hours and 200$ it looks like you're dealer is trying to grab some money.
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Buy a filter, and the oil of your choice and do it yourself!! No need to check the valves at this point. Your gut feelings are correct. Just check all fasteners and your good to go!
Willie
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Thanks for the replies, it seems way excessive to me as well. I usualy do all of my maintenance myself, I thought I would take it in for it's first maintenenace since it's new. This is ridiculous though, I called another shop and they want $280, they also say that the valves need adjusting, the maintenance schedule just doesn't back it up though.
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My valve adjustments will get done as soon as I start to hear some slap going on in the top end not before, I used to set my valves at the required intervals all the time but found that most often they were not out of spec so it was a waste of time and money.
Problem with that is tight valves don't make noise - and that's what typically happens as the engine breaks in.
Maybe this isn't as critical on the new water-cooled 1250 engine, but the old air/oil cooled engines are notorious for getting tighter until ~15K miles, then usually staying pretty stable for the life of the engine. While many dealers brushed off the 1200's 600 miles valve lash inspection, it should be done on them, as well as the 7500 and 15000 miles checks. If everything's good at 15K, some consider going longer on checks. Now, I know the 1250 has a longer inspection interval, but just thought I'd throw this out there to think about.
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I am inclined to take it in for the first service, after that I will do it myself. The only thing that bothers me is the difference between the owners manual and what the Suzuki shop is telling me about the valve adjustment. I hate to pay for soemthing that isn't required, I'm wondering if they are just looking at the 1200 guidelines?
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I called Suzuki customer service today to ask about the valve adjustment issue. They told me that different dealers do different things during initial maintenance checks???, but if the manual doesn't call for it then it isn't required. I have never had a dealer do anything different than what the manual called for before. It sounds to me that the dealer is looking for a quick buck and charge me 3 hours of labor for something that isn't needed. I think I will skip the valve adjustment and put the money towards something else.
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Yup. The dealer service department depends on those unneeded valve clearance checks, in fact some dealer mechanics can just listen to a new bike and determin if the clearance is OK, but they will still charge you for it. The only time I will ever let a dealer touch my bike is if it is a factory warranty repair and I have to be present when the work is done. Other then that I do all my own scheduled maintenance and document it in the service manual.
Anyway you said you wanted to do your own work anyway so you might as well start from the beginning. Checking the valve's clearance is a good prerequisite to adjusting them and pretty simple if you handy with hand tools. If however you never have been and lack confidence, there is nothing wrong taking it to a reputable JP bike mechanic, only be very carefull with dealers. Sometimes you come out of a dealer service department with more problems then you started with.
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Yes, I agree with you about dealers. With 7 bikes in the garage I have to do my own maintenance, it's the only way that I can afford to keep them! I usually like to take a new bike in for its first service at the dealer just in case. The thing that bugs me is that the dealers are trying to do something that seems not to even be required by the manufactuer. I'm just surprised that they can decide what a 600 mile check should consist of, I have never ran into this before. When I spoke to them on the phone it wasn't described as an option, it was stated that is was a requirement and this was from 2 different dealers. Only after I questioned them was I told that you didn't need to have the valves checked if you didn't want to, this saves 1.5 maintenance hours at a cost of $80 per hour. I think I will be following the guidelines in the owners manual :wink:
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The dealer I bought my bike from has a generic routine they go through for EVERY bike. same situation over 3 hours and $300. my list includes alot of stuff that are "if applicable" which on this bike it isnt (such as carb work). i think they just do that as a flat time/rate to cover themselves on all bikes sold even if it isnt needed.
I spent the money and bought the shop manual and just go by what suzuki states to do to the bike.
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+1 Purchasing a shop manual is always a good decision.
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I change my oil and filter at 600 and again at 3,000, using dino. Again at 6,000 with Mobil 1, 15w-50. I then change every 6-8,000 using Mobil 1. Have done this on many machines and it works for me. I try not to ride down the same street as my dealer..... :grin:
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Yes, I think my 1250 has seen the dealer for the last time, unless it's a warranty issue. I prefer to do my own maintenance, that way I know it's done right. I had a dealer one time forget to tighten the bolts that hold my front axle on the forks, I'm not to trusting after that! I let them do the initial service, but not the valve adjustment check. I couldn't see paying them 1.5 hours for a service that the owners manual didn't even call for. I thought my Harley dealer was bad at trying to sperate my money from me :roll:
Will
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Yes, I think my 1250 has seen the dealer for the last time, unless it's a warranty issue. I prefer to do my own maintenance, that way I know it's done right. I had a dealer one time forget to tighten the bolts that hold my front axle on the forks, I'm not to trusting after that! I let them do the initial service, but not the valve adjustment check. I couldn't see paying them 1.5 hours for a service that the owners manual didn't even call for. I thought my Harley dealer was bad at trying to sperate my money from me :roll:
Will
Like here in finland.It is better that you do services youself.
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Red01 is right, tight valves do not rattle. As the valve and guide/seat wear the valve goes farther into the head, meaning less clearance. I am not saying it cant happen just that all the valves I have ever found out of adjustment were tight not loose. My bikes always make a little more noise after a valve adjustment, when they are quite I get nervous.
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Agree I always listen for the prancing valve train. When things get too quiet I start to worry. Of course I don't like my valves to sound like a pin ball machine either LOL.
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If you do take it in mark the cover bolts in some sneaky manner, like I did! I know it will be there when you get it back! Even when they say they were way out and you got it to em in the nick O. T. :beers:
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I bought my 2008 Bandit 1250ABS a month ago at the local PowerSports and last week I stopped by and asked about the 600 mile service and was quoted $475. I had them check the book and it was for the B1200. They said oil change and valve adjustments. Just a bunch of bull!! I had the same crap 2 years ago from them with my Vulcan 900. They wanted to go a service base on the air-cooled Vulcan 800. Talked about valve adjustment again. I guss I'll do my own maintenance .
Jim
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Hello everyone,
I checked with my dealer and they said it was OK to do my own 600 mi. inspection.I had already adj. chain, changed oil and filter by 500 mi. I used(Suzuki OEM)parts and always keep receipts.Its basically following the sheet in the operators manual.Inspect and put a wrench,socket,screw driver(sometimes Phillups,or allen on every accessible bolt or screw on the bike.They knew I was a retired diesel mechanic for 32 yrs. and they also know I'm a perfectionist and neatnick.Believe me I've almost always felt in years past with other new bikes that I was burned on services.There is no law that says you can't do it yourself.My dealer is very honest,and knew that I'd do it.They said there was nothing that needed to be inspected or adj. at that first service.Believe me ,most of you can do it.Hope this helps somebody.I also haven't done any performance mods on it other than Dale Walkers gear shift indicator with TRE. Take care Cruisinfool :grin:
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Bandit 1250 valve adjustments do 24000km.Some members bikes had been inspect (24000km) here in Finland.Nothing to adjust.
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There is no law that says you can't do it yourself.
TRUE! At least in the US.
Warranty rules can be different in other countries though. For instance, in the UK, service must be done by a factory authorized agent to keep the warranty in effect... and they get two years worth of warranty versus the US getting only one.
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I'm almost due for my 600. I think I'll do it myself.
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I'll do my own. I see paying $400 for nothing.
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I let a dealer do that first one considering all the checks that needed to be done. However, it only cost me tax and all about $120.00. $400 is very steep, I think.
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"I let a dealer do that first one considering all the checks that needed to be done"
I am not sure if it works.
I have seen that it does not always work though dealers do it.
They often forget tighten Exhaust pipe bolts, muffler bolts and nut.(600 mile service)
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True, ippo, however, if something did get missed, I can point to the dealer, and I don't have the hassle I would otherwise have on warranty work. That, and I was too busy at the time, and a little lazy. Or, was that too lazy and a little bit busy, I can't remember. :duh:
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I just had my first service.....$210. They over filled the oil by almost a quart.
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I took mine in back when.. they only charged me $85 , what they charge for 'zuki oil and filters would cost a big chunk of that alone. I know I could have done it all myself but forr that price I figured why not get to know the service guys and work on a little good will , they even installed a new 'frankenbolt' figuring it had vibrated off [ my dumb**s lost it] they said keep it :thanks:
8
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I went to Lee's Cycle Racing here in San Diego for my 600-mile service. Just $150, but they did not do the valve adjustment. They said they've done lots of them and there is almost never any need for a valve check that early as long as the bike is running well. The dealer wanted almost $400, but of course would have done the valves.
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(http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm165/wrt-photos/Gsf1250service.jpg?t=1221667313)
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For instance, in the UK, service must be done by a factory authorized agent to keep the warranty in effect...
Well that's what the dealers want you to think. In reality, you just have to be able to show that the servicing has been done to the required standard. Although, to avoid arguments, I usually get my bikes dealer serviced while they're still under warranty.
That said, here in the UK the 600 mile service is "Free" - to the extent that you only pay for the oil & filter. Mine cost £35 (about $65 US).
Oh yeah - we get 2 years warranty as well.
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Just going by what other Brits have said on the board... something along the line of "factory authorized service" - and here in the States, only a dealer would be factory authorized. OTOH, our laws forbid factories from mandating factory authorized services to keep up a warranty unless the factory provides it free.
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our laws forbid factories from mandating factory authorized services to keep up a warranty unless the factory provides it free.
Same here - it comes under the EU anti-competition laws. It didn't used to be so - hence some people's confusion.
However, to keep up the warranty, what is required is a service to factory standards - ie using genuine (or factory approved) parts & materials.
It's the old story - the law changed years ago but the stealers still try to tell people that the bike can only be serviced by them.
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Cool! :thumb: :thanks: for the update! :beers:
Makes me wonder then why EU markets get a 2 year warranty out of Suzuki when the US only gets 1. :shrug:
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Hmmm,,, I'm not sure on that one!
A few years back, the standard warranty on most vehicles over here was 1 year. These days, most vehicles come with 2 or 3 years warranty (and 5 or 7 year warranties are becoming quite common). Whether longer warranties are now an EU requirement I don't know.
That said, US prices for most things do seem to be considerably cheaper than here.
For example, my Bandit 1250 cost £5,500 out of the door - that's about $9,800. Most US prices that I've seen are considerably cheaper than that - which may go some way to explaining the differences in warranty and service costs.
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(http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm165/wrt-photos/Gsf1250service.jpg?t=1221667313)
According to the Service Manual that I have for the GSF1250/S/A/SA, Page 0B-5, a inspection is required at the 1000km (600 mile) service. :duh:
Valve Clearance Inspection and Adjustment
B718H10206006
Inspect valve clearance
Initially at 1 000 km (600 miles, 2 months) and every
12 000 km (7 500 miles, 24 months) thereafter.
Inspection
Valve clearance adjustment must be checked and
adjusted, a) at the time of periodic inspection, b) when
the valve mechanism is serviced, and c) when the
camshafts are removed for servicing.
This statement contradicts the Scheduled Maintenance chart on Page 0B-1. :roll:
It pays to check to manual text rather than rely on the service chart.
You decide for yourself. :thumb:
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Hello Everyone,
I have the US. owners manual and it is for the GSF1250S so I don't have the same manual as DMAXHALL does and I can only go by what mine says and my dealer showed me the one they go by and its the same as our US. manual.Now it states in the manual to follow the recommended inspection and adjustments on the chart,and I know for sure that most shops unless requested will not physically check the valves,but they will probably charge you for it.I've owned a lot of bikes and many new ones and most shops will only do what they can get away with unless.I hate to sound pessimistic,but thats just from my experience.My dealer said they would not check the valves unless I was willing to pay for it.I haven't heard of valves being tight on an adjustment since the 80's.Maybe it was the metals they were using in valve seats or soft shims or cams . Some of you guys may know more about that than I do.I only worked on Mack,Cummins Caterpillars and Internationals,all heavy stuff. Just thoughts on the subject. I will gladly stand corrected if you know something I don't,take care,John :grin:
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Thanks for the insight John. :beers:
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I haven't heard of valves being tight on an adjustment since the 80's.
Maybe it was the metals they were using in valve seats or soft shims or cams.
Actually, it was fairly common for the 600 & 1200 air/oil cooled Bandits to have one or more valves a little tight on the 600 mile service - and again at the 7500 mile service. After that, they're usually settled down and stay in range until wear on the cam lobes or rocker arms causes them to become loose instead of tight... but then this is an engine family that was designed in the mid-1980's... and being air-cooled is probably a factor.
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Here's a clip of the text in post #35 above as taken from the PDF service manual available on this site. Are you guys doing the 600 mile valve adjustment or skipping it? This book says adjustment intervals of 7500 miles. What's the common knowledge about this engine? What are you guys finding when you check the valves?
(http://www.macdizzy.com/banditalley/gsf1250.jpg)
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You guys are talking about 1200's and this is supposed to be a 1250 forum. :duh: :bandit:
Just for the record, the 1250 only calls for adjustments every 14,000 miles.
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You guys are talking about 1200's and this is supposed to be a 1250 forum. :duh: :bandit:
Just for the record, the 1250 only calls for adjustments every 14,000 miles.
Actually, that is taken right from the GSF1250/S/A/SA K7 service manual available on this site. I asked the question because in that book they go into great detail about doing the 600 mile valve adjustment. It's confusing because it also shows this chart which seems to indicate that the first valve adjustment is at 14,500 miles. Where are you getting the information about 14,000 miles?:
(http://www.macdizzy.com/banditalley/maintenance.jpg)
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You guys are talking about 1200's and this is supposed to be a 1250 forum. :duh: :bandit:
Just for the record, the 1250 only calls for adjustments every 14,000 miles.
Actually, that is taken right from the GSF1250/S/A/SA K7 service manual available on this site. I asked the question because in that book they go into great detail about doing the 600 mile valve adjustment. It's confusing because it also shows this chart which seems to indicate that the first valve adjustment is at 14,500 miles. Where are you getting the information about 14,000 miles?:
(http://www.macdizzy.com/banditalley/maintenance.jpg)
14,000 or 14,500 I knew it was right around there.
I was told by the dealer every 14,500 that was one of the things I asked when I considered the bike as I ride about 12,000 miles a year and I didn't want to doing valve adjustments every few months. The 1250 manual that comes with the bike says 14,500 also, that's what I'm going to do. On most bikes after the first adjustment you can go 20,000 miles or so before it needs another anyway.
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I had my valves inspected at 16,000 miles and they were spot on. Throtal body sink was another story, it was way off. Most other B1250 guys that I have spoken to had no valve issues as well up to 20K miles. Your call but the B1250 is a low stress motor and is not very hard on the valves.
Mark
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Here in Finland valves inspect every 24000 km.