Author Topic: The differance between air cooled and watercooled. (Read 15603 times)

aussiebandit · « **Reply #15 on:** February 13, 2007, 11:56:45 PM »

Just to put my comments on FI/WC bikes in to some context, I haven't ridden a FI bike for 5 years. So it would stand to reason that the manufacturers have got their act together and improved the fuelling at lower throttle openings.

By the way in Oz WC is used in building plans to show where the "dunny", "shitter", "Thunder Box", toilet is...so had a little snigger

ZenMan · « **Reply #16 on:** February 14, 2007, 11:59:55 AM »

Quote from: "aussiebandit"

Just to put my comments on FI/WC bikes in to some context, I haven't ridden a FI bike for 5 years. So it would stand to reason that the manufacturers have got their act together and improved the fuelling at lower throttle openings.

By the way in Oz WC is used in building plans to show where the "dunny", "shitter", "Thunder Box", toilet is...so had a little snigger

WC as in "Water Closet"? Ha ha! I can see where you'd get a snigger in on that, Aussie.

The secondary throttles plates are designed to control air flow as well so the A/F mixture can be controlled precisely. This eliminates the low-mid roughness. At least no reports of problems in the few reviews so far, only crisp, smooth throttle response across the RPM range.

Different strokes for different folks, aye? You like air/carbs, I like WC/EFI, I hope that someday we can go riding together for some fun and then beers.

At least you aren't one of those sorry-ass whiners that has to keep taking cheap shots at the new B1250 to try and make themselves feel superior.

Let 'em go spend twice as much money for just a little more motorcycle... if that's what it takes to keep their "pride" intact then they better have plenty of it!

aussiebandit · « **Reply #17 on:** February 15, 2007, 05:04:01 AM »

Mate, I would never seriously have a go about any bike. Yes I do make jokes about Harley Fergusons (sorry Harley Davidsons), or the rice burning Harley wannabes. But at the end of the day, I honestly don't care what style/brand of bike a person rides, just so long as they ride, and enjoy it.

If I wasn't so in love with my 02B12 I'd certainly look at the new B1250 - I like the look and if I enjoyed the ride, was comfortable, and it did everything I wanted, I'd buy one.

The other thing that's stopping me is 'The Treasurer' wants to sell her M750 and buy a BMW F800 - which I have no problem with because it means we'll be able to do more 'touring' as she'll be somewhat more comfortable.

ZenMan · « **Reply #18 on:** February 15, 2007, 11:53:29 AM »

Quote from: "aussiebandit"

Mate, I would never seriously have a go about any bike. Yes I do make jokes about Harley Fergusons (sorry Harley Davidsons), or the rice burning Harley wannabes. But at the end of the day, I honestly don't care what style/brand of bike a person rides, just so long as they ride, and enjoy it.

If I wasn't so in love with my 02B12 I'd certainly look at the new B1250 - I like the look and if I enjoyed the ride, was comfortable, and it did everything I wanted, I'd buy one.

The other thing that's stopping me is 'The Treasurer' wants to sell her M750 and buy a BMW F800 - which I have no problem with because it means we'll be able to do more 'touring' as she'll be somewhat more comfortable.

I'm with ya, Aussie, you won't hear me trashing anyone's bike either, but I agree that Hardley's are fair game.

Something about the new B1250 that seems to threaten some folks "manhood", though... have you noticed that?

I think it's great that your Lady is getting the Beemer... your Bandit is a great bike and it'll definitely keep you ahead of her.

aussiebandit · « **Reply #19 on:** February 16, 2007, 04:45:38 AM »

Quote from: "ZenMan"

Quote from: "aussiebandit"
Mate, I would never seriously have a go about any bike. Yes I do make jokes about Harley Fergusons (sorry Harley Davidsons), or the rice burning Harley wannabes. But at the end of the day, I honestly don't care what style/brand of bike a person rides, just so long as they ride, and enjoy it.

If I wasn't so in love with my 02B12 I'd certainly look at the new B1250 - I like the look and if I enjoyed the ride, was comfortable, and it did everything I wanted, I'd buy one.

The other thing that's stopping me is 'The Treasurer' wants to sell her M750 and buy a BMW F800 - which I have no problem with because it means we'll be able to do more 'touring' as she'll be somewhat more comfortable.

I'm with ya, Aussie, you won't hear me trashing anyone's bike either, but I agree that Hardley's are fair game.

Something about the new B1250 that seems to threaten some folks "manhood", though... have you noticed that?

I think it's great that your Lady is getting the Beemer... your Bandit is a great bike and it'll definitely keep you ahead of her.

Most of the people I speak to in Oz simply start drooling when I tell them that the Bandit is coming out with Fuel Injuction and water cooling - and when I mention that it's now 1250 not 1152 they go all weak at the knees and can't speak properly.

As for the B12 keeping ahead of "The Treasurer" on the F800, well the M750 has roughly 15 less horses (or 30 less than the b12) and she still gives me run for my money - particularly in the tighter corners - straightline outright grunt no - but when you take power out of the picture - she's pretty damn quick...

gyrogearcrunch · « **Reply #20 on:** April 20, 2007, 10:54:11 PM »

Quote from: "BHolland"

When my sons were young we rode dirt bikes, we spent many a weekend at California Cty, Red Rock Canyon, Gorman or Balenger Canyon. The bikes were air cooled 125s and 250s. Two or three times a year I would be replacing the ring and piston on one of the bikes. I bought my oldest son a new 1981 YZ 125 when he was 12, he rode it until he was 18, 6 years and we never had to take the engine apart.
Our 1200 Bandits are air cooled, with an oil cooler to help keep the oil temp down. Every one, even Harley( V-Rod) is going to water cooled engines, thats just the way it is

True. The XS750 Yamaha triple burned oil because it had no oil cooler. The cure was to install an oil cooler from and XS850 or run Mobil 1, which didn't burn. Don't know much about dirt bikes - were those YZ's two-strokes? Yamama quit making stink-pots about 1979, I bleev, due to the change in pollution requirements. That RD400 was quite a machine . . . too bad.

Herb

Daytona · « **Reply #21 on:** April 20, 2007, 11:58:22 PM »

Quote from: "ZenMan"

Quote from: "aussiebandit"
Mate, I would never seriously have a go about any bike. Yes I do make jokes about Harley Fergusons (sorry Harley Davidsons), or the rice burning Harley wannabes. But at the end of the day, I honestly don't care what style/brand of bike a person rides, just so long as they ride, and enjoy it.

If I wasn't so in love with my 02B12 I'd certainly look at the new B1250 - I like the look and if I enjoyed the ride, was comfortable, and it did everything I wanted, I'd buy one.

The other thing that's stopping me is 'The Treasurer' wants to sell her M750 and buy a BMW F800 - which I have no problem with because it means we'll be able to do more 'touring' as she'll be somewhat more comfortable.

I'm with ya, Aussie, you won't hear me trashing anyone's bike either, but I agree that Hardley's are fair game.

Something about the new B1250 that seems to threaten some folks "manhood", though... have you noticed that?

I think it's great that your Lady is getting the Beemer... your Bandit is a great bike and it'll definitely keep you ahead of her.

Hey what is this trash talkin about manhood? Just cause I can't find a single thing to complain about on my 1299 BandBusa and swear its the best bike on the road for the larger spirited squidly want to be bike riding junky? Hey I still have fond memories of my 1G B12S and wanted to tell the buds on my favorite site!! But I don't miss the puckered feeling when I came up on a corner in the dead of a dark night with that less than adequate headlight! And the less than 42 MPG. When now off the show room this bike will show you the Pine cones on both sides of the road @ tree top level, Cagers are flashing their lights a mile away when you have yours on Hi beam to see what coming up on the horizon. 45 mpg @ ticket speeds in comfort. But I never knew what I was missing until now. I'm talkin trash cause I have only seen the 1250 at bike week here and didn't even site on it. Zuki had a sign on the seat. Hey as long as you ride and respect the addiction of others that share your ideology

For less than 2K difference for the GSX1300R, available and proven, as comfy as any! They brought the bandit back for the same reason some would rather push a Hardly (to the dealer) than ride one of those other bikes! OK i Know!

SteelD · « **Reply #22 on:** April 27, 2007, 07:09:06 AM »

Quote from: "aussiebandit"

As for fuel injection - I really do prefer carburators, why.

Well, besides the fact that if something goes wrong with EFI it's BIG dollars. I've found all the fuel injected nakeds I test rode before buying the B12 wouldn't 'behave' at low speed/low revs/low throttle openings. In other words, they worked really well on the open road and when 'playing', but for me a bike has to be able to do the low speed/low rev/low throttle open drudgery of riding round town, just as well as it does the open road stuff.

Two points:

1) My previous bike was FI and my current bike is FI and my next bike (B1250) will have FI. My cars for the past 15 years have all had FI and I've not had problems with any of them but I have had easier starting, no problems running rough when cold, good fuel economy and great performance. When I did have cars/bikes with carbs I spent money getting them balanced, jets replaced etc. so, to me, FI is a good thing.

2) Many FI bikes have experienced rough running at certain rpm because the manufacturers have tried to map the FI to meet emission regulations at certain rpm. This has often been seen with high bhp machinery where the mapping is radically different at the measurement rpm. Aftermarket re-mapping has helped in some of these instances. The new B1250 isn't tuned for top-end power but low-end torque and Suzuki have succeeded in producing an engine that meets emission regulations but has a superb throttle response with no fuelling issues. So, it's just as brilliant around town as it is on the open road. The bottom line is that it isn't FI per se that is causing the problem but manufacturers trying to aim for high output engines AND meet emission regulations and it is unlikely that a carb bike would meet the regulations anyway. If you want to experience a good FI setup, try the B1250.

Red01 · « **Reply #23 on:** April 27, 2007, 03:44:25 PM »

To Suzuki's credit, their EFI systems typically have gotten rave reviews from the press for their smooth operation, regardless of the style of bike it is..

leedogg · « **Reply #24 on:** July 19, 2007, 11:21:00 PM »

I didn't even consider a Bandit last year due to the lack of FI and WC'ing. Mainly due to this being my first bike- and not wanting to deal with the inevetable maintenence of the carbs. Never fooled with carbs before. my dad is old school- but after I built my Trans Am with big cam and kept the EFI- he said he was amazed at the drivability of it. Now I know our bikes are a way different FI- but the principles are the same- I firmly believe in the simplicity of EFI and the electronics that control it. i appreciate you guys that have the ability to keeps those 4 carbs in perfect sych...but I just wanna push the start button and roll out. nothing beats efi when it comes to that.

JamieK · « **Reply #25 on:** July 21, 2007, 12:05:42 PM »

Quote from: "leedogg"

I didn't even consider a Bandit last year due to the lack of FI and WC'ing. Mainly due to this being my first bike- and not wanting to deal with the inevetable maintenence of the carbs. Never fooled with carbs before. my dad is old school- but after I built my Trans Am with big cam and kept the EFI- he said he was amazed at the drivability of it. Now I know our bikes are a way different FI- but the principles are the same- I firmly believe in the simplicity of EFI and the electronics that control it. i appreciate you guys that have the ability to keeps those 4 carbs in perfect sych...but I just wanna push the start button and roll out. nothing beats efi when it comes to that.

I had never fooled with carbs before this bike but they really aren't all that difficult once you tear into them...having said that I prefer FI...but you couldn't get FI on the 06

wristwister · « **Reply #26 on:** July 29, 2007, 11:19:11 PM »

Guys, guys ... there's a simple solution to this whole old-school Vs. state-of-the-art debate. Just have one of each in your garage! When I want comfort, performance, reliability and ease of operation, out comes the Bandit 1250. When I want to ride something finicky, noisy, tempermental, heavy, smoky, smelly, and that handles like a brick, out comes the old GT750 (for some strange reason, I LOVE that old bike!).