Hayabusa shock mod 2 gen B12

[ippo]

summary:

1.Remove the bolts from the original shock, those two, no matter which first. The bike was in the center stand. The center stand is no use after this (I had dogbones already shorter 4 cm and this change will also increase the tail to go up another about 3 cm, sorry for the metric dimensions). Remove the side covers (those with the silver endings to get better touch to screws and bolts).
2.Remove the tank by the instructions, 2 incoming hoses and 1 electric wire and 2 outgoing breathing hoses.
3. Remove the Battery cover and battery, for my thumb in the center of the hand I needed more space to uninstall the old shock.
4. I needed also removed my already cutted rear fender known as underskirt or undertail.
5.Place the new shock to it's place.
6.Discover that the air cleaner box doesn't fit with new shock, cut the left side plastic square from the back side of the cleaner. If you're already in stage 3, this won't be a problem for you.
7. I did put some silicone to close the air cleaner hatch tightly.
8. Install all removed parts and don't overwrench and break the bolts from the front of the tank which will keep the seat in the place like I did!
9.Enjoy new rear suspencions, It felt like xcross in bumbs and no wobbling in high speeds either.

Bandit 1200 -96-2000 shock lenght 306mm,stroke 64mm
Bandit 1200 -01-05    320mm(+6/-0mm),61mm
Gsxr    1100 -89-98   312mm,70mm
Gsxr    1000 -01-02   329,5mm(+5,5/-0,5mm),74mm
Gsxr    1000 -03-04   332,5mm(+6/-0mm),74mm
Gsxr    1000 -05       319mm,70mm
Busa   1300 -99-06  330mm,72mm

[Red01]

Ippo's number look like the same as the ones on the chart in the FAQ...

[RDUBandit]

So its 10mm or ca. 2/5" increase in ride height?

[Red01]

The Busa shock is physically 24mm longer than the 2G shock and has 11mm more travel. Installed, it will raise the back of the bike ~1.25".

[NC Rick]

The posted dimensional information follows what I see in the Ohlins data. I measure a little differently:



No way the Bandit 1200 (second gen) will go more than 55 mm or so. The Busa looks more like 78mm.

[solman]

I wish I would've taken a pic of the distance from the bottom of the tire to the ground before and after.  I know the busa shock is a bit longer, but I honestly can't tell the difference by looking at it and normal riding.  Aggressive riding, it is just better.

[rkfire]

Not really wanting to pee on a parade but look at the stroke of the Busa shock compared to the stock shock. It has close to 50% longer stroke than the stock shock. Since the lever ratio amplifies this at the rear wheel (still 50% but a LOT of extra travel). Be really certain you know about the tire clearance and geometry issues. Riding to the store, this won't be a problem but riding fast at the track or in serious twistys, crashing can result. For the get one bikes, the shock is just plain too long. I think the busa shock is a little long for the 2nd gen, (forcing excessive sag) to get a decent ride hight. I understand the desire to get a better shock for cheap but please watch out for the details. Sometimes, just because there are a lot of people doing it don't make it right.

Ride safe.

Really hate to down grade your post, but I have been out twice on the 2nd gen B12 with the Busa shock.  The first time out I took it easy initially and slowly progressed faster as I felt comfortable.  During the whole ride, there was no stability issues at all.  In fact it conformed to the bumps and twists so much better.  This last Sunday I took it out and went full bore.  Needless to say, it performed fantastic.  Neither time did I ever have any stability issues.  BTW, I also have my forks lowered about 3 mm as well.

Well, I hate to downgrade your post, but NC Rick is a suspension EXPERT! He builds them, fixes them, sets them up for rider weight and type of use, installs them on race bikes. Let's hear your qualifications?

I think you missed the key points of his caution. With a longer stroke, on top of overall longer length, there is a hazard under full compression that the busa shock may cause the tire to bind against the fender or other parts. If this were to happen, the tire will lock up, just as if you stomped on the rear brake. Under full extention, will the chain bind? Will you set chain slack more now, to compensate? Will extra slack cause potential derailment?

He's saying there is quite a bit of engineering that has gone into factory suspension systems, and certainly as much by aftermarket suspension makers to keep chasis geometry similar, while improving spring rate, compression, and rebound settings for the individual and their weight and riding style.

Go buy a junkyard shock because someone else did and it costs $20. I would imagine it works fine for the average rider, not exploiting the capabilities to the extreme, but what about that one time you hit a large pothole, unexpected gully or similar that does put the shock at full compression or extention?

I hope you don't have an accident requiring litigation. A smart investigator will certainly make issue with having the wrong shock on your bike.

This thread makes me chuckle about the other safety-nanny posts, but with this one and the thread about "agressive riding when stressed" makes me wonder.

[bikeb4cage]

Good points - I'll be honest, I did not consider the risk of the rear wheel locking on full compression, due to hitting the fender  - I will check what hits what if I can ratchet down the rear - it's probably a low risk with my weight, but worth looking into.  My comments on the shock being safe were focused on the behavior of the bike when the shock is somewhere between fully extended and fully compressed.  I can't think of a risk at full extension that would not be similiar to a risk of the stock shock at full extension, other than the chain would be at it's most slack.  You do need to add some slack to the manual spec - about 5mm, to account for the fact that the swingarm is further out of line with the tightest chain point.  So...thanks for the post...

Ride safe and Happy Holidays All -
Jay

[solman]

Well, I hate to downgrade your post, but NC Rick is a suspension EXPERT! He builds them, fixes them, sets them up for rider weight and type of use, installs them on race bikes. Let's hear your qualifications?

I agree that I am no expert and don't feel that you had to blow me out of the water with your comment.  Until now, I didn't know what his qualifcations were until recently.  So jumping on me so quickly seems pretty unfair.

there is a hazard under full compression that the busa shock may cause the tire to bind against the fender or other parts.

If the busa shock is longer, wouldn't there be more of a risk of hitting the fender with a stock Bandit shock? 

Under full extention, will the chain bind? Will you set chain slack more now, to compensate? Will extra slack cause potential derailment?

Those are possible good points.  I have never heard of any such thing before, but I'll take your word for it as a possible situation.  I personally would love to spend $500+ for a rear shock, but I personally can't afford it.  As long as people have been doing the busa mod, has anyone ever heard of anyone having handling issues with the shock?

[bikeb4cage]

Hey Solman - thinking about your question, I need to take a look, but I think you can subtract the stroke from the height, to get the compressed height:

Bandit 1200 -01-05    320mm(+6/-0mm),61mm

Busa   1300 -99-06  330mm,72mm

Doing so, the compressed height of both shocks is within 1 MM of each other - if this holds true, the likelihood of the tire on a Hayabusa equipped Gen II hitting the fender is no more than the likelihood of the stock shock causing this.

[rkfire]

Well, I hate to downgrade your post, but NC Rick is a suspension EXPERT! He builds them, fixes them, sets them up for rider weight and type of use, installs them on race bikes. Let's hear your qualifications?

I agree that I am no expert and don't feel that you had to blow me out of the water with your comment.  Until now, I didn't know what his qualifcations were until recently.  So jumping on me so quickly seems pretty unfair.

there is a hazard under full compression that the busa shock may cause the tire to bind against the fender or other parts.

If the busa shock is longer, wouldn't there be more of a risk of hitting the fender with a stock Bandit shock? 

Under full extention, will the chain bind? Will you set chain slack more now, to compensate? Will extra slack cause potential derailment?

Those are possible good points.  I have never heard of any such thing before, but I'll take your word for it as a possible situation.  I personally would love to spend $500+ for a rear shock, but I personally can't afford it.  As long as people have been doing the busa mod, has anyone ever heard of anyone having handling issues with the shock?

Hey sorry, I was simply using a jump similar to what you gave NC Rick.

It would depend on the numbers. Some sources say certain numbers and others have different. You'd have to have both shocks side by side and measure. The only source I've seen that has done that was NC Rick, and his conclusion comes out different. Speaking of which, all this Busa shock swapping, I've never seen anyone with talk about spring rates. Pictures I've seen, it appeared that the Busa has about the same spring diameter and in one pic it really looked like the busa had one MORE coil (although it is hard to count if the coils aren't turned to the same orientation). If so tho, that would make a busa shock softer. Which is possible because with linkage, on the busa a softer spring can effectively be stiffer.

I'm no suspension expert either. I think swapping shocks from one bike to another may be a big mistake if all the geometry isn't worked out in advance.

I suspect a better choice may be the 1250 shock if you want to swap. It's got a longer swingarm and is a slightly heavier bike. Both would require a bit of stiffening of the shock to replicate the 1200's ride.

[solman]

Hey sorry, I was simply using a jump similar to what you gave NC Rick.

No problem, I just made my comment from my personal experience while riding with the busa shock.  I am not the fastest in my group, but I do well and I am somewhat of an aggressive rider.  Enough said, let's move on.

The 1250 might be a better choice, but given that it is new to the market, it would be pretty difficult to find.  Regardless, I am currently happy with my choice.  I've been hearing about how great the busa shock is for years and haven't heard of a complaint yet.  Like I said, I know their are better options out there, but cost comes into play as well.  I do know how different wheels and suspension  from different bikes can pan out.  I have a 82 CB900F which I have done multiple mods to those areas looking for improvements.  Some I have liked and kept, others didn't have such good results and went different routes.

[NC Rick]

Thanks guys. I am pretty much with the program with this stuff. I am making a meager living doing this suspension stuff and have always enjoyed do-it yourself projects as well as saving money, I have never professed to know that much, I am always learning, that is what keeps me passionate about this stuff. I think it is the wrong approach to just change something on a bike because you can or because others have done it. I am totally into making a change like that with some research and investigation.  Asking some questions like "what is the correct spring rate for the Bandit with a given rider weight? What is the spring rate of a Busa (or other shock). What about travel, bottoming and top out positions, swing arm angles and other geometry points? The Busa shock has a decent spring rate for a 180 lb guy (if my memory serves) on the Bandit G-2 but is way off for the G-1. How about the travel? Well I would agree, if we accept that bringing the rear up by an inch or more is good (I am not giving one way or another to that point) and the travel is increased by that much things should be OK but in the case of the Busa shock I think you will find that your getting closer to double that additional travel. I would dismount the spring and mount the shock to test the travel at its extents.

Handling wise, I think there is some evidence to support possible problems. Whether or not someone wants to go along with that is strictly optional. It's natural to want to dismiss that if your own experience is contrary and those folks may well be right. A much higher proportion of riders with more experience with motorcycles that have good suspension are riding around with Fox, Penske, Ohlins and yes even Cogent shocks on their Bandits. A lot of the Bandits see a good deal of miles pile on them and the stock sub-par shock is really dead by the time it gets changed so most anything will be a big improvement. I have ridden a Gen-2 Bandit with the "Busa shock mod" installed and on the mild street ride I had, it was fine (road well) with the exception of being a little twitchy on corner exits (could well have been the tires) and some tendency for the rear end to get a bit floaty on hard braking.

I have not been trying to take any kind of adversarial position on this. If I can get a few people to be cognizant of some factors involved with such a change, I am very happy.

[Cruisecontrol]

I've been hearing about how great the busa shock is for years and haven't heard of a complaint yet.

Well said that man.

In theory absolutely anything is possible but this mod has been used in reality for many years and has worked well.
I have made the change myself and saw instant results for the better. The rear of the bike is far more stable and if anything it removed the twitchiness that occurred on hard acceleration out of corners and spirited braking (confirmed on track days).
I am 200 odd lbs and never has the bike bottomed out or performed in any adverse way due to the changes.
I have also put an '02 GSX-R front end on and I am sure it has affected geometries and the like but by actually riding the hell out of it I have experienced no drawbacks only massive improvements in handling. 

[solman]

That is why I made the swap.  I am not one to jump on the band wagon so quickly with mods.  This is a subject that I have been following for years and have heard many testimonials.  Any further advice would be appreciated.  I would actually like to learn how to adjust the compression and dampening.  I know what they do, but don't know what to look for when adjusting.  I tried using the different settings with the Bandit shock, but never noticed any real difference.  Go figure...