Author Topic: Questions about wheel swap on 2Gen Bandit 600 (Read 9957 times)

dangerboy · « **on:** September 13, 2005, 01:15:30 PM »

Does anyone out there know if I can replace my 160 rear wheel with a 180 rear wheel? If so, which wheel and from which model bike. I want it to appear stock. Also, can it be done without changing the original swingarm? It looks fairly tight, but there might still be room for the 180. Thanks

Red01 · « **Reply #1 on:** September 13, 2005, 04:03:35 PM »

A B12 wheel will fit, but why? You'll make the bike handle as slow as a B12 and loose the nimbleness the B6 has over the 1200.

dangerboy · « **Reply #2 on:** September 15, 2005, 09:24:58 AM »

Hey thanks for the reply. You make a good point. I do in fact like the nimbleness of the 600. But you know how it is; you cut off the rear fender and you want to see fat rubber. I just thought it would look better from behind with a fatter tire. And I was hoping it wouldn't take away too much from the handling. So a B12 rim will fit (sprocket, brake rotor, etc.) and a 180 tire will fit between the swingarms?

PeteSC · « **Reply #3 on:** September 15, 2005, 10:28:24 AM »

It is going to screw up the handling.
'Looks' are cool, but unless you plan on riding the bike in a straight line as long as you have it.....it ain't worth it!
IF you just want something 'cool' to ride around town, (Lot of people where I live do what you're talking about...super fat rear tires, etc.) you'll be able to impress people that are easily impressed.
People that can actually ride bikes on roads other than 'flat and straight' will think 'squid'.

It's your call, it's your bike. I mistakenly assume most people would rather improve handling and performance, than degrade it.
I forget people ride bikes for different reasons.....

Does anybody remember those magnifying panels they used to sell for TVS, to 'turn your 19 inch set into a BIG SCREEN TV!'????
Maybe we can make up and sell a mudflap/rear fender thing made of the same magnifying stuff? The rear tire would look 'big', but you wouldn't screw up the handling!

Red01 · « **Reply #4 on:** September 15, 2005, 07:17:13 PM »

IIRC, you only need the wheel, your B6 sprocket (& carrier) & rotor will fit the wider B12 wheel.

The bike won't be totally screwed, it'll just handle a little slower, like a B12 does.

Whatever makes you happy... but to me, fat tires for "the look" are for choppers.

lharrell79 · « **Reply #5 on:** September 19, 2005, 09:21:58 AM »

Quote from: "Red01"

IIRC, you only need the wheel, your B6 sprocket (& carrier) & rotor will fit the wider B12 wheel.

The bike won't be totally screwed, it'll just handle a little slower, like a B12 does.

Whatever makes you happy... but to me, fat tires for "the look" are for choppers.

Are you sure that this is a direct boltup. I have a 98 600, and from the back, I don't think a 180 tire would fit in the 600 swingarm. A 170 would probably be stretching it a little. However, I think a 160 would fit fine.

I would also like to go to a 180 if possible. The turn in really doesn't bother me at all. My other bike is an R6, so I'm used to the 180 and really don't have a problem with the turn in.

So can anyone confirm for sure if the 1200 rear wheel is a direct bolt in, or do you have to have the 1200 swingarm as well?

Lucas

Red01 · « **Reply #6 on:** September 19, 2005, 08:41:48 PM »

You're funny!

An R6 runs a 180 because it needs it. It's got horsepower numbers similar to a B12. It was also designed for the 180.

170's have been put on B6's on the stock wheel.
I know B12 wheels have also been put on B6's - I just don't recall if any have been done with the 600 swingarm. I thought so.

JMHO, but I think there are better things to spend your hard earned funds on than putting a 180 on a B6. Who's gonna notice? They'll probably just think it's a B12 and yawn.

PitterB4 · « **Reply #7 on:** September 19, 2005, 09:37:36 PM »

FWIW - a wider tire on a rim designed for it will give you a larger contact patch and therefor more grip, right? For instance, my buddy has an SV650 track bike. There is a company out there that takes 2 sv rear rims, narrowly cuts the lip of one rim and then cuts a wider strip off the 'donor' rim and welds it on to the original. It allows a 180 to be put on an SV with no other modifications. It seems like a silly way to drop 400 clams or so but a number of trackday and racer guys are doing it. I'm sure it's at least partially psychological but my buddy swears it gives him more grip in the corners.

lharrell79 · « **Reply #8 on:** September 20, 2005, 09:08:01 AM »

A wider rim and tire does give you a little more contact patch, but not so much that it would outshine a 150. The main reason I enjoy the 180, is that when you're leaned over in a corner, and and whack the throttle exiting, you have that extra beef under you for grip. Now, I know the bandit 600 is no power house, and I've only ridden it around the block a few times so far (still trying to get it street ready). However, I'm almost certain that I could get that 150 to break loose if I was exiting a corner at around 10000rpm. At times like this I would rather have a 180 under me.

Everyone is bashing the 180 as being a slow tire, and I have to disagree. If you have your suspension set up right, and get positon over the front tire correctly, you shouldn't notice much of a difference between a 150 and 180. Just my 2 cents.

Lucas

tomacGTi · « **Reply #9 on:** September 20, 2005, 10:00:29 AM »

If you ever noticed on manufacturer's sites, they have a recommended rim width for tires.

This allows the correct amount of distance so that the contact patch isn't either bulged up (too wide of a tire on too narrow of a rim) or too stretched (the opposite). The tire width is designed to work in harmony with rim width so that the sidewalls can correctly support the tread above it. When you upset this, ill handling happens: either slow turn-in or very sloppy turn in because the tire is bulged too far.

There's a bit of scwah room built in like lowering the profile 10% and increasing tread 10% (ex: 150-70-17 to 160-60-17) but even that can be exceeded. If you're going to go up in width, increasing rim width should preserve the handling as best as possible.

Also, the thing to remember is that the contact patch shape changes moreso than anything else versus area when increasing sizes. Instead of the proposed contact patch being long and slim, it can turn wider and shorter but the amount of rubber (sq in) may remain very much the same.

-Randy

dangerboy · « **Reply #10 on:** September 20, 2005, 12:16:10 PM »

Personally I think the handling issue is not insurmountable. The difference in handling due to a larger tire could not possibly be any worse than the lack of handling due to the soft stock front springs. In other words, I think the improvement in handling one would get by changing out the front springs could easily make up for any loss of handling realized by going with a wider rear tire. My eyeballs tell me that a 180 rim would fit between the B6 swingarm, but that the 180 tire might scrub on the chainguard. My main concern is with whether the B12 rim uses the same hub configuration, the same sprocket and brake rotor bolt patterns, the same axle diameter (I think the B12 axle is larger than the B6), and the same spacer width. If any of these things don't work then changing out the swingarm may be the thing to do. But then you have to worry about whether the swingarm bolt and bearings will fit. Am I right?

Red01 · « **Reply #11 on:** September 20, 2005, 03:02:53 PM »

Having ridden both the B6 and the B12 and knowing there is practically no difference in their geometry, I can tell you the B6 IS more nimble than the B12. Maybe I'm as full of shiite as a Christmas goose, but near as I can tell, the only difference that can account for it is the size of their tires.

dangerboy · « **Reply #12 on:** September 22, 2005, 04:21:02 PM »

Not full of shiite. But I think that the weight difference could be part of the reason. The 1200 has twice the cc's therefore bigger jugs, heads, pistons, etc. Plus I think it has heavier duty things on it as well. Isn't the 1200 at least 20lbs. heavier than the 600? So if it's only the weight, then I've already fixed that. I've lightened mine by about 30lbs so far by removing unnecessary things. So it's pretty nimble. If I have to lose some of that to gain a better look; well it seems like a fair trade.

tacoman · « **Reply #13 on:** September 22, 2005, 05:42:42 PM »

Unless you're Matt Mladin or Valentino Rossi, (heck even a good local pro) I doubt theres too many riders on this site that can be held back by a good 160 rear on a B6. The previous generation race replicas (where the B6 motor came from) all ran the 160. Its all they needed. If you want looks, go for the 180 but its not going to improve your riding. If you lose control or spin out, its probably some other shortcoming of the bike (suspension). Unsprung weight is always a performance advantage.

Red01 · « **Reply #14 on:** September 23, 2005, 06:50:36 AM »

Yes, it's ~20lbs heavier... it's got wider wheels and fatter tires.

And bigger/better forks, bigger brake rotors & calipers, bigger oil cooler, hyd clutch, etc. The motor may weigh more, but maybe not as much as you might think. Remember the 1200 is a 5 speed, not a 6 like the 600. Things like bore centers are the same on both engines and the heads will interchange.

As I said before - if it makes you happy - go for it!

For me, the cost/benefit analysis comes up a big zero.