Author Topic: Carb troubles-Wet Diaphragms?  (Read 13486 times)

Offline canyonbreeze

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Re: Carb troubles-Wet Diaphragms?
« Reply #15 on: February 03, 2012, 05:03:04 PM »
The tubes press out opposite the main jet.  You don't need a punch just loosen the main jet a couple turns and push it with thumb.  You do have to pretty much take the carburetor completely apart though.

Offline rider123

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Re: Carb troubles-Wet Diaphragms?
« Reply #16 on: February 03, 2012, 05:58:12 PM »
Yeah thats what I figured, a bit of a bummer. The good thing about my Bandit 1200 is you can practically do everything by just taking the float bowl off. I know the Bandit 400 is on the lower scale of bikes so maybe they cut a few corners but how much more dollars per bike is it to get slightly updated carbs? Like what? 10 bucks a carb x 4  over thousands of bikes? I'd be willing to pay an extra $500 over the price of my Bandit if it came standard with some nice flatslides on my 1200. Oh well. What I suggested is just take the slide out and take a look from the top, from the symptoms your describing though I'd say jetting is the problem but it doesn't hurt to look. Its good you can push them out with your thumb though I was going to reply saying you GENTLY tap with a punch but you beat me to it.
« Last Edit: February 03, 2012, 06:06:51 PM by rider123 »
2005 Bandit 1200, Modified Holeshot Stage 1 with 17.5 pilots 2.75 turns out, and 110 mains 5 shims. Muzzy Slip on w/mid-pipe, stock filter. 1.5" hole in the airbox lid.

Offline rmack87

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Re: Carb troubles-Wet Diaphragms?
« Reply #17 on: February 06, 2012, 01:48:37 AM »
alright, here's the info i got from taking apart the carbs:

Needle: 5DH15
Main Jet:96
Pilot Jet: 32.5
Condition of valve seats:  Worn to various degrees.  Can take pictures if you need them.

This is kinda disappoiting, because the jet sizes sound pretty close to factory.  Let's talk gaskets...the o-ring for the floats seems a little funky in some for some of them.  Like it's warped and the petrol has degraded them a bit.  They still fit snugly, however.  What are the odds that these o-rings could be causing me to run so rich?

Also...the fuel petcock has been known to suddenly release fuel as if it is in the 'prime' position, even if it's on.  I've ridden the bike on 'prime' versus 'on' and seen no noticeable change in results, so the floats are definitely doing their job...BUT, i noticed today for the first time that the vacuum hose had a strong smell of petrol and was even a little wet today where it plugs into the diaphragm of the petcock.  Could it be that a bad fuel petcock is delivering fuel through the vacuum hose, making my bike feel so rich?  Would just one cylinder make me feel like the bike is rich all around?(on the 400 the vacuum hose is plugged into the carb boot of the 1 cylinder)  Unfortunately you can't really get to the diaphgragm in this petcock without desroying it.  It only lets you get to the reserve/main valve assembly, then you can't dig any deeper to get the the diaphragm.  As an experiment i'm going to block the hole of the carb vacuum intake, put the tank on prime, and go for a ride just to see if there is a chance it is the petcock.  I'll let you know how things go.  Cheers!
« Last Edit: February 06, 2012, 01:52:40 AM by rmack87 »

Offline rider123

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Re: Carb troubles-Wet Diaphragms?
« Reply #18 on: February 06, 2012, 02:31:24 AM »
Ok well heres the good and the bad:


Good:
Pilots are stock so your in luck
Needle is adjustable so your good there. The Dynojet needles have a more agresive taper so when fixed may actually have a bit more juice especially at mid-range.
You got all the info you need to fix it up the jetting for like $10
Stock OEM filters are usually cheap mine is $20.


Bad:
Mains are less then stock and in steps of 2 which means a Dynojet kit was installed which is just foolishness from the previous owner as it still has the stock exhaust so it's basically doing nothing but wasting fuel and LOSING power. Also the Dynojet kits are made for the AMERICAN bike which uses totally different carbs so no wonder it's phucked.

Petcock diaphram is leaking fuel on the bike you pulled the carbs for info. I believe number 1 cylinder is the vaccum line puller so check that cylinder to see if petrol is leaking into that carb. Most likely if it's leaking fuel on the "ON" position the petcock is pooched, unfortunately for the Bandit 400 you can't rebuild the petcock. They are about $90 new or half at a wreckers. Thats probably alot of the rich problem, the float needle valves aren't usually strong enough to hold back the flood of fuel. Temp fix, run around with 1/4 of tank of gas or less with the vacuum line plugged on the prime, real fix, get a new petcock.

He also butchered the stock air filters so replace $20 bucks each is a good start.


What I would do is go order some stock 102.5's, keep the nice adjustable needles, set the needle on the middle position to test. Since you have 3 of the bikes you can either exchange the petcock from one that works correctly or go buy either a new stock petcock or a fancy pingle valve. Since you'll be selling the bikes shortly it might be worth it to do the cheapest/easiest fixes first. If the bikes are all the same colour, just exchange tanks on one where the petcock works so you can get the tester bike running fine.

It's sounds like a cluster phuck but really its not. Don't worry since you have all the info you need, %90 is just buying 4 102.5 mikuni jets and a new stock air filter for a total cost of around $30. As a bonus you do have the nice adjustable needles from Dynojet so if everything is back to stock you may actually have a bit more throttle response than the an equivilent stocker especially in the mid-range. That petcock is a problem though, are all the bikes the same colour? If you can use a tank from one that the petcock actually works properly or even just stick it on there to test you should be good. To fix everything %100 is less than $150 but will translate into a few hundred extra in your pocket when you sell the bike especially if the bikes are running well. Because of the previous owners foolishness your probably losing 5-7 horsepower due to the silly dynojet install on a stock exhaust. Once everything is back more or less to stock and you have the petcock fixed you'll notice the bike has some more balls especially up top. If you want to experiment a bit you could order a set of 105's especially if the airbox has extra holes or is butchered but I would stick to stock for now just to see if you need more juice or not. If you want to be super thorough even order 100's in case 102.5's are too much with the Dynojet needles.

To simplify:

Easy/Cheap fix:
102.5 Mikuni Mainjets x 4 $10 Or maybe 100's if too rich with Dynojet needles
New OEM stock Filter $20
Needle at centre position at first, adjust as necessary
Swap tanks with one that the petcock works, see how much they are at a wrecker
Mixture screws 1 1/2 turns out from lightly seated

Harder/expensive fix:
Stick to Dynojet jets and order some 94's or 92's $20, or tune to what you have.
Buy a brand new OEM petcock $90
Mixture screws 3 turns out from lightly seated with the Dynojet jets
Skip the airbox entirely and go to K&N pods + 127.5 jets, maybe $150? More? Who knows?


Just a little info. Dynojet numbers don't translate to the Mikuni jets directly. They use a different measuring system. Dynojet uses the size of the hole in mm's and Mikuni uses flow of CC/min for their jets. So the 96 Dynojet is .96 of a mm hole. Mikuni's 102.5, is 102.5 cc of fuel per min, which I think is more accurate. The closest to Dynojet is Keihen jets but they are still off a couple of points.

It's usually a few points below for Mikuni so on my Dynojet jet conversion chart a 96 mainjet is only a 90 Mikuni jet. However how Dynojet achieves better fueling is usually by lower the float height to a super rich level. For example on the Bandit 1200 they lower the fuel level from 13 mm to 11.5!! Holy richness Batman! and they have a more aggressive needle. So they take a different take on how and when the fueling takes place. Unfortunately for at least the Bandit 1200 their jet kits suck. They can be tuned but it's hell, one guy here got so fed up he actually sold the bike one month after buying it. If you have your float height at the recommended level, chances are you have holes in your jetting at certain RPM especially up top. As your equivalent jet is like 5 sizes leaner than stock so it's a bit weird thats why getting back to stock is such a good idea to clean up the insanity so you can really test it. Dynojet used to be the shit back in the 80's but it seems they kind of went by the wayside lately for some reason. I haven't seen any bike that can't be tuned by just ordering larger or smaller standard Mikuni or Keihen jets and maybe needle shims or an adjustment.


My guess is that the petcock died and the previous owner who obviously didn't know what he was doing was like "My bike is running crappy" so he went on line or had a friend who knew slightly more(or less!) to suggest he get a jet kit to fix it. Instead of just fixing the problem they moved it around a little and in the process made it even more phucked up. We see this sort of stuff alot. The problem with your bike at lower rpm the bike is going to be super super rich which explains why you have the needle on the leanest setting and the mixture screws at .75 turns out because thats the only thing holding back the niagara falls of the fuel that going into the carbs with the dead petcock. At higher RPM when the jetting evens out your are now running super lean because your settings are at such a lean level which probably explains the lethargic top end.

Theoretically once the petcock gets fixed or changed with one that works from the other bikes you can tune the Dynojet kit if you want to keep it. I'll find the .pdf instructions for you. At least you could probably get it running "ok". I did take a quick look and you are using the leanest jet out of the kit so it may be ok if you want to spend the time tuning it. Let me see what I can find.
« Last Edit: February 06, 2012, 08:32:48 AM by rider123 »
2005 Bandit 1200, Modified Holeshot Stage 1 with 17.5 pilots 2.75 turns out, and 110 mains 5 shims. Muzzy Slip on w/mid-pipe, stock filter. 1.5" hole in the airbox lid.

Offline rider123

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Re: Carb troubles-Wet Diaphragms?
« Reply #19 on: February 06, 2012, 05:02:58 AM »
Ok here is the Dynojet kit .pdf:

http://www.dynojet.com/pdf/3134.pdf

The problem is it's for American models so they want you to drill spacers, etc and kill the EPA shit that you don't have. But just leave everything and fix the petcock first and move the needle to the mid position. The good thing is it's using the stock float height so you're good there but if you look at the instructions there is a huge ass "U.S. MODELS ONLY". So even if I was geographically challenged the previous owner could at least ask himself...Is South Africa even on the same hemi-sphere as N. America? Should I be buying this kit? I'm just trying to help get it so at least the bike is drivable while the Mikuni jets come in for you which is the real fix, after fixing the petcock first of course.

On the Dynojet instructions they want you to put the mixture screws to 3 turns out which is alot more than the 1 1/2 turns out recommended by stock(probably why the don't touch the float height) so if you fixed the petcock you may have to turn them to that sort of a level so you can function with the super lean mainjet. I don't know man the dynojet kits are weird which is why I suggest going back to near or at stock, especially since your using a jet kit for a totally different carb. It's up to you.

If you want to use the Dynojet stuff in there here is the starting position:

Needle: Middle position
Mixture screws: 3 turns from lightly seated.
Mainjets: 096 Dynojet jets
Pilots: stock
Float height: stock

Remember though these settings are for the US model so you may have to adjust up or down. Good luck!
« Last Edit: February 06, 2012, 11:15:31 PM by rider123 »
2005 Bandit 1200, Modified Holeshot Stage 1 with 17.5 pilots 2.75 turns out, and 110 mains 5 shims. Muzzy Slip on w/mid-pipe, stock filter. 1.5" hole in the airbox lid.

Offline rmack87

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Re: Carb troubles-Wet Diaphragms?
« Reply #20 on: February 07, 2012, 03:28:41 AM »
Wow, solid mystery solving skills, rider.  Thanks!  The previous owner was indeed american and bought the bikes for himself and some friends to travel around SA during the world cup...he probably bought the U.S. Dynojet kit for cost's sake(the cost of spares in SA is outrageous!), then didn't realize that the bike was worse off as his friends were probably the ones riding it, or maybe he chocked it up to something different, who knows! 

Went to bloemfontein(300K round trip) today to try to do some spares hunting with the tank petcock on prime and the vacuum hose plugged up.  Ran ever so slightly better.  Instead of needing to wait thirty minutes to cool before electric start would work, I only had to wait maybe ten minutes!  Which is indeed promising...maybe if I can find a way to get these settings right, the bike will start when truly hot!

The bad news was I could neither find the jets nor the petcock.  The suzuki dealership would have to order which could take up to three weeks, which we're hoping to be on the road for our trip by then.  Our plan, then, is to order the parts through Durban, which is a slightly bigger and more bike-oriented city...hopefully they can find a secondhander for us and get the jets locally.

I will try the settings reccomended above with one of the gas tanks and petcock from another bike.  I'm nervous, though, as it's hard to believe it won't be running waaaaay too rich.  It's worth a shot, though!  Heading back up to our site in the mountains today and will hopefully have a chance to play around with the needle tomorrow.  Cheers!

Offline rmack87

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Re: Carb troubles-Wet Diaphragms?
« Reply #21 on: February 07, 2012, 03:39:25 AM »
Whoops...asked a question about jetting sizes of mikuni vs. Dynojet and then realized you did a fine job answering it two posts up!

Thanks!
« Last Edit: February 07, 2012, 03:45:59 AM by rmack87 »

Offline rider123

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Re: Carb troubles-Wet Diaphragms?
« Reply #22 on: February 07, 2012, 06:39:56 AM »
Don't sweat it too much that you have a Dynojet kit in there. Even thought the previous owner phucked up and put a kit for another carb in there. The settings and intake apature of the Carbs are similar enough you can probably get it to work with some fiddling. The big issue is getting so that the carbs aren't being dumped a shitload of fuel into them, screwing up the jetting. Does one of the other bikes petcock work? Try the lazyman's way for now to test by just exchanging the tanks even if they are not the same colour and try the standard settings for the Dynojet kit and see what happens. That should save you a lot of time. You never know you could probably get it running pretty close to perfect you sound like you know what you are doing. The bike doesn't really care HOW it gets the fueling as long as it's correct. If you stuck a WWII German sidecar Zundapp Bing carburator on there and got it to work somehow, the bike wouldn't care as long as the fuel is metered correctly. I would imagine that once the petcock works and the standard setting on the Dynojet kit are in there, you may be slightly lean unless your at a higher altitude.

Since plugging up/clamping the the vaccuum hose and running on prime make it work better(I bet you its lean now at least when running). I would try a notch down at least on the needles and it will probably run even better. Also I would maybe try to go to the stock 1 1/2 turns out of the mixture screws as well. If you keep the tank less than half full it won't put as much pressure on those teeny float valves. Since the starting issue is better, I would guess when you stop and the fuel isn't being used it's piling up in there making the carbs so rich it will not start hot. As soon as you are running you're burning off the excess so the fueling gets better. If you exhange the tank temporarily or get a new petcock try the standard settings for the Dynojet kit which is needle at middle notch and 3 turns out or just work up from the 1 1/2 turns stock. Go for a high speed highway run as I bet your cylinders are probably black inside to clean it up, and come back home and pull the plugs and adjust as necessary.

The thing is look at it this way. My tank which is 20 litres is roughly 1kg/l or 2.2 pounds for every litre of fuel(gas is actually a little lighter) so a full tank without the petcock to regulate it is pushing down with a force of 44 pounds. I don't know of any motorcycle float valve in the world that can hold back that amount of fuel. Even only 10 litres is still 22 pounds of fuel trying to be stopped by those dinky little needle valves. It just can't handle it. How the petcock works is that vacuum is applied to a spring loaded diaphram and pulls on the diaphram depending on the engine RPM. So when you are idling it's just letting a trickle of fuel through so you aren't flooding the hell out of the carbs, at high rpm it pulls the diaphram more so that a whole bunch of fuel is allowed into the floats. With the diaphram not working and stuck open, you are basically feeding the carbs enough fuel at full throttle even though you may be at idle! Or even worse Stopped! It also prematurely wears the needle valve tips as they are being ground hard into their seats by all that fuel pressure.

No wonder it has problems starting when hot with those little dinky fuel valves are trying to hold back a full throttles worth of fuel when only sitting at idle or stopped. I would imagine if you parked the bike long enough I bet you the fuel would eventually leak into the crank case and out the airbox. The fuel valves are not designed for that pressure. However when you are running there is less pressure on the fuel valves as some of the fuel is being used to burn in the combustion chamber. Needless to say the petcock is number 1, then try to fix with what you have is number 2, and if you want to go to stock jetting ordering the jets would be number 3.

Unfortunatly from just researching this problem for you it seems that shitty petcocks is sort of characteristic of this bike. There are literally hundreds of posts out there on other forums. I guess Suzuki cut some corners on this bike to sell it cheaper. I guess that's why people spring for the fancy pingle valves. But since you will only be riding the bike for less than a year just get a wrecker petcock. If you get the bikes running well you can sell them for more money, so say a used petcock for $50 may translate into $150 bucks back when you sell it or maybe more because no one is going to buy a bike they have to fix unless it's like half off.

Put it this way:

Sell bikes as is, $1000 maybe and hard to sell, if at all most people won't touch a bike with carb/fueling issues, even if its easy to fix. Especially since these bikes are considered "beginner" bikes, chances are you are selling to a kid who wouldn't know how to fix it even if you told him how to do it. May have to sell less for parts only.


Sell bikes with $100 new petcock and jetting fix(free or $10), $2000 easy to sell, Maybe more if they're extra clean. Keep the receipts of any new parts as proof, Also a good selling feature, proves you took care of the bike. Might be worth a new petcock just to have it run awsome for a year and from an economic standpoint.


The previous owner instead of buying a Dynojet kit for $150 could have bought an aftermarket Can and slip on for $150, and $10 worth of jets and could have done it properly and gained an extra 5 HP instead of losing 5 HP. Oh well. With a little patience at the minimum you should it at least get it running as good as stock, probably better.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2012, 09:35:48 AM by rider123 »
2005 Bandit 1200, Modified Holeshot Stage 1 with 17.5 pilots 2.75 turns out, and 110 mains 5 shims. Muzzy Slip on w/mid-pipe, stock filter. 1.5" hole in the airbox lid.

Offline Chris H

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Re: Carb troubles-Wet Diaphragms?
« Reply #23 on: February 07, 2012, 09:43:08 AM »
Im a bit late to this so fogive me if ive missed something but IF its got a Dynojet kit in it will run smaller mains as the Dynojet jets flow more fuel than Mikuni's jets, also the needles are finer and if they do not clear the needle jet/emulsion tube when at full throttle this will also allow more fuel out of the needle jet. Fitting stock mains may or maynot richen/lean the mixture.
There is info in the 400 jetting section regarding the differences between the makes.

Offline canyonbreeze

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Re: Carb troubles-Wet Diaphragms?
« Reply #24 on: February 07, 2012, 01:27:24 PM »
The entire weight of the fuel in the tank isn't pushing in the fuel line, only the small stream directly above the petcock.  I've left mine in prime settings for weeks and never had any overflow.  The float valves hold fine.  In many an old car that has a fuel pump supplying from the tank the only thing stopping the flow are the float valves.

Offline rider123

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Re: Carb troubles-Wet Diaphragms?
« Reply #25 on: February 07, 2012, 02:34:42 PM »
True, but there is the entire weight of the fuel trying to push through that line either way it's alot more than should be pushing on those needle valves. Plus with all that fuel trying to empty into that relatively small fuel line the pressure of the fuel actually goes up not down. However that is great at full throttle when you need a lot of fuel and fast and keeps a nice constant pressure when rolling on and off the throttle hard which is what you need. But not so good when your stopped. Hence the petcock vacuum valve, they wouldn't have bothered if it wasn't necessary. If the needle valves are brand new or in good shape they will hold it off for a while however on a 20 year old bike it just can't handle it. They will fail eventually though. Although with less fuel in the tank it gets easier and easier for the needle valves to hold off the fuel so a full tank may leak but it may be fine with half a tank or 1/4 of a tank.

Also in a car when it is running is only when the fuel pump is activated to push the fuel up from the gas tank at the rear uphill to on top of the engine at the carb area. When the engine is shut off so is the fuel pump, the gas will pool back down under gravity back to the fuel tank.

With Dynojet, their jets don't flow more fuel they just have a different take of jetting of a bike. What Dynojet does is makes the overall jetting richer by usually increasing the pilot mixture and/or float height and having a super aggressive taper on their needles. The reason they have small mainjets is because the bike doesn't need it as the overall mixture is much richer than would normally be experienced stock.

For example on this bike they want you to turn the mixture screws out double what stock is and if you had the stock mainjets it would have been dripping with fuel so what they do is lower the mainjet and use the needle taper to meter the fuel instead of the pilot screws down low to compensate for the richness down low and a smaller mainjet up top so the bike isn't drowning with fuel. On other bikes like the Bandit 1200 they use a combo of mixture screws and a way lower fuel height to richen up the bottom. Typicially the Dynojet needles are slightly longer with a super small needle point at the end to get the fuel on quicker and faster but a little later in the rpm scale than the stock needle. There are advantages and disadvantages to this setup. The main advantages would be a smoother power delivery as well a theoretically better overall fueling, the disadvantage is worse fuel economy than would be acheived with a typical up on the mains type of jetting. With Dynojet it's all in the needle.

However with this sort of setup some bikes hate it alot. One being the GEN2 1200 Bandit, probably because the pilot jet is extremely small and can't provide enough fueling to compensate for the Dynojets smaller mainjet. They try to get around this by artificially lowering the float height to a super rich level but the carbs don't seem to like this very much and it usually makes the jetting wonky instead of good. This is really a symptom of emissions regulations than Dynojets fault. On older bikes they were fueled better overall as the motorcycle companies could concentrate on proper jetting rather than pleasing some politician. For example my Bandit 1200 stock has the same airbox as a Bandit 600 and the  jets are actually SMALLER than the Bandit 400 made 15 years earlier. This is all to try to get past the emissions crap. Thats why the 1200 gets so much power by drilling a 1.5" hole in the airbox lid and upping the mains. Really that's how it should have come out of the factory but the emissions are measured at idle so they use a miniscule pilot jet at 15 which is less than half of the 400 which has 3 times less the displacement.

So what this means on the Dynojet kit where the pilots supply alot of the fueling is that the pilot jet doesn't have enough juice to supply the Dynojet's fueling philosophy so hence the wonky jetting on the Gen2 1200's. As emissions regulations get more and more strict the Dynojet kits will work less and less, unless they supply the appropriate pilots themselves which is probably what they are going to do or just concentrate on fuel injection modules or something.

On stock bikes they get around this buy having an artificially low pilot jet and having a normal sized mainjet with less air getting in there so it can work with the artifically low pilot jets. They are really hobbled out of the factory. They mainly use the mainjet to supply most of the fuel instead of relying on the pilots to contribute alot to the overall mix. The whole purpose is to "fool" the emissions testers so down low they are artificially lean. This has some advantages and disadvantages as well. The advantage is a leaner cruise mixture which will mean better fuel economy, but the jetting will be very cold blooded until fully warm and there will be a bit soft below 1/4 throttle response. If you look at my sig at the bottom I have a pretty rich mainjet compared to the 100 stock, because thats what I need to function, the pilots are too small to contribute enough to let the needle and pilots do most of the work so you need to shim the needle alot to bring on the fuel from the mainjet sooner to increase the power and compensate for the dinky pilots. Even with my pilots at 4 turns out it still is a bit lean although it is only 3 degrees celcius so at summer temps it should be fine.

Really the Dynojet philosophy is the best way to go with less abrupt changes from different jetting circuits, but as the bikes came under harsher and harsher restrictions it's getting harder and harder to get them to work correctly. Thats why back in the 80's and 90's Dynojet kits were "the kit to get" because the bikes were jetted better overall not having to fool any emissions bullshit.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2012, 08:06:20 PM by rider123 »
2005 Bandit 1200, Modified Holeshot Stage 1 with 17.5 pilots 2.75 turns out, and 110 mains 5 shims. Muzzy Slip on w/mid-pipe, stock filter. 1.5" hole in the airbox lid.

Offline Chris H

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Re: Carb troubles-Wet Diaphragms?
« Reply #26 on: February 07, 2012, 06:06:30 PM »
Ive read a little more but SO MUCH to read and about other bikes than the B4.
The needles listed are wrong all B4 needles are 5EZ im sure the gsxr400 gk73a has the ones you list 5DH and also has 96 mains.
I would say its got gk73a carbs on, can you post the code on the side of the carbs?
Also are you sure the top end issue is not the jap speed restriction kicking in.
Is the airbox completely standard and what grade plugs have you got in.

Offline rider123

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Re: Carb troubles-Wet Diaphragms?
« Reply #27 on: February 07, 2012, 08:44:12 PM »
Even if the GSXR400 Carbs are on there a Dynojet kit has still been installed(at least at one point) as Mikuni jets are in steps of 2.5. Dynojets are in steps of 2


Jet Needle: 5DH7 stock
The gsxr400 carbs have a 97.5 mainjet(one or two smaller than Bandit 400 depending on US or Euro/Asia)
and the same pilot jet at 1.5 turns out on the mixture screws.
Same float height


It could be that the previous owner installed a Dynojet kit was too rich because of the dead petcock and thought that he would put the stock needles back in there as they are less aggressive? Can you talk to this guy again? It may be a franken-Carb solution with different parts from different kits. Holy cluster phuck batman! At least the carbs are similar enough you can tune it out. Sometimes I don't know WTF people are thinking. I believe but I'm not sure that the code for the carbs on that bike is on the left side of carb number 1, maybe take a look if you can. Don't worry too much it probably can be tuned with some sort of carbs on there(uggh). So judging from what we have so far you may have a set of GSXR400 Carbs or at least the needles, a Dynojet mainjet installed on a Bandit 400.

WOW! Your right maybe spares are really expensive in S. Africa! It sounds like a third world McGuiver fix. Get the petcock sorted out and we'll talk about fixing the rest. I'm sure you can still make it work considering the only difference in the GSXR400 Carbs is the mainjet size.

Just take it one step at a time and step 1 is to fix the petcock. Step 2 would be to fix the needle valves if it's still dumping fuel Step 3 is to fix the jetting which even if it's a different set of carbs on there will still work. So don't fret it too much. Maybe there is a reason there is set of GSXR carbs on there who knows? I know that the Bandit 1200 loves GSXR parts so maybe it was some sort of performance mod or something? But without an aftermarket can and slip on it's just a waste but whatever.

BTW the Japanese models is speed limited at 180 by the CDI not by jetting or carbs or whatever and it can be bypassed I believe by snipping a wire to fool the CDI it's not in top gear but don't even touch that until the bike runs ok. Thats number 2348793724937 on the list of stuff to do.

EDIT: Ok after searching on the internet I did learn that they will interchange as the Bandit 400 engine is basically the same with milder cams however the consensus is that it's a waste of time unless you're going to from the 32mm Bandit to the 33mm GSXR400 carbs and get a can and slip on. But whether it's a waste of time or not the problem with the GSXR carbs are concerned it's almost impossible to get parts for it at least in the States. But at least you know it will work so once the fuel dumping problem is fixed at least you can make it work. Good luck!
« Last Edit: February 10, 2012, 05:20:28 AM by rider123 »
2005 Bandit 1200, Modified Holeshot Stage 1 with 17.5 pilots 2.75 turns out, and 110 mains 5 shims. Muzzy Slip on w/mid-pipe, stock filter. 1.5" hole in the airbox lid.

Offline rmack87

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Re: Carb troubles-Wet Diaphragms?
« Reply #28 on: February 13, 2012, 01:02:53 PM »
Howdy gang.  Sorry it's been a few days, but with the internet being out and dealing with a botched suspension order i've been unable to update you guys.

Went to increase valve clearances.  While doing so noticed a ghastly hiss from the crankshaft while the three and four cylinders were under compression.  Decided i was going to figure out what was going on.

When inspecting pistons, rings, and cylinders, everything looked gorgeous.  Rings nice and springy, cylinders, while not completely without sign of wear, showed no signs of warping or notable distortion.  Number three and four spark plugs were that beautiful tan color that I hear so much about as to a happy spark plug...which was interesting as the three and four cylinders were DEFINITELY the ones hissing(i confirmed this by inserting one plug at at time and listening for sounds).

Since the three and four cylinders were the ones giving the sounds, i thought maybe it might be the head gasket.  The head gasket was nasty.  Cleaned it up with petrol and some fine grit sandpaper...then sprayed it with a coat of spray paint and replaced, quite optimistic that this would cure my woes.

No go.  When everything came back together, the hissing sounds were just the same.  Reset the timing, then increased the valve clearance on the intake side up to .2mm.  Didn't help.  Bike still behaves exactly the same.  Starts when cold, can hardly keep an idle when warm and won't start.

SOOOOO......let me recap the condition of the spark plugs....one:rich two:way too rich...nearly fouled.  Three: Happy brown color.  Four:  Happy brown color.

Interesing as it seems to be cylinders three and four that are losing compression, no?  My friend and i chatted and decided our expectation would be that a leaking cylinder would cause that cylinder to run more rich...as the petrol comes in, extra O2 is forced out during the compression stroke, so more petrol per volume of air, more rich, no?  The spark plugs are indicating contrary to our intiution here...that the leaking cylinders are running more lean than the good cylinders!  What's up with that?

In short...it sounds like this bike is a cluster&%$@ of problems.  Any chance this thing will get me 8000 miles on a cross-country trip?  I'm kind of financially committed to including this bike in the journey.  I can handle the push-starts and the difficulty at low speeds...i just don't want this problem to get worse as I continue on the trip...and i definitely don't want to mess it up beyond repair...whatchya guys think?

Offline pmackie

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Re: Carb troubles-Wet Diaphragms?
« Reply #29 on: February 13, 2012, 01:31:49 PM »
Hi rmack87

You need some more data...

I would suggest a compression test, both wet and dry, and if possible a leak down test. It certainly sounds like you have low compression on one or more cylinders, which could be:
1. Leaking valves
2. Leaking head gasket
3. Poor ring seal

Based on your comment of a bad looking head gasket, I would get a new one on order, but depending on the results of the above tests, you may be looking at the need for a rebuild. Try to get the data first, and then make a decision.
Paul
2002-GSF600S, Progressive Fork Springs, B12 Shock,
SS Brake lines, EBC HH pads, Leo Vince Ex & Kappa bags.
Ex Bike Mechanic (late 70's), somewhat rusty
32 years in the Fuel/lubes industry(Retired)