Author Topic: Ethynol (Read 5212 times)

ricklee4570 · « **on:** August 09, 2007, 05:32:14 AM »

Is it safe to run gas that has 10% ethynol added to it? I know cars can , but I have heard it is not good on motorcycle engines.

Red01 · « **Reply #1 on:** August 09, 2007, 12:17:57 PM »

My '01's OM says you can safely run up to a 10% blend.
I prefer not to use blended fuel unless I have no choice. I've not had to in my bike yet. I have noticed my cars get better fuel economy and have better throttle response (more power?) if I run ethanol-free gasoline.

Barbarian · « **Reply #2 on:** August 09, 2007, 03:01:11 PM »

Ethanol contains less energy than gas, but it burns a touch cleaner.

The Bandit (at least, my 2006) can handle a ten per cent blend.

B6mick · « **Reply #3 on:** August 10, 2007, 09:10:09 AM »

Ethanol, wonderful shyte that it is.
Its great if ya engine and more importantly ya fuel system is built
to deal with it. 90% of the plastics used as carb components will not deal with it though.

Downunder the big fuel companies, and I might add quite a few small ones too, made a tidy profit margin
by blending ethanol and unleaded fuels of all grades, without the knowledge of the consumer. Some got caught
out with blends way past 15% and 20%.

Unfortunately for the consumer, cars where dropping by the wayside at an alarming rate. And the consumer,
unbeknown, voiding their new car warranty, for using the crap in cars that where not designed to use it. Even
without the knowledge of being sold the crap.

The Federal government finally stepped up to the plate and made the fuel companies comply and advertise the
that the fuel they are about to buy is in fact blended with ethanol and with a government set max limit of 10%.
Funny thing is all the horror stories stopped over night, and down this neck of the woods only one petrol company
openly sells ethanol blended fuels, under the guise of it being environmentally better. With this said, the federal
government gives some very nice incentives for the use of ethanol, but the only people making gains from them is
the retail seller, I really don’t see, any price incentive at the pump for the consumer.

Now in some South American countries, Ethanol is all that is used, and it works, but, yes there is always a but,
all motor vehicles are made or modified to use it. At extra cost mind you, to the consumer.

But my personal view is until, Suzuki, Kawasaki, and Yamaha, have stickers on the petrol tank, Ethanol blended
fuels compliant, just like the ones stating unleaded fuels only, I will not touch the shyte with a twenty foot barge
pole.

My 2 cents worth.

You may have noticed I didn't mention Honda, Hey Aussie why would that be?

Your damned right I don't give a toss what Honda has to say

rkfire · « **Reply #4 on:** August 10, 2007, 12:53:36 PM »

Our US and Canadian owners manuals specifically say 10% ethanol is fine. I'd rather use 100% gasolene, but where I live ALL gas is 10% ethanol.

longislandbandit99 · « **Reply #5 on:** August 10, 2007, 10:28:03 PM »

Here in New York we've had E-10 gas for about three years now. It causes a lot of problems in the marine environment due to the fact that boat gas tanks vent to the outside air. My bandit has had obvious problems due to ethanol even though the manual says it can use ethanol blended gas up to 10%.

Ethanol has a heating value of 76,000 BTU/gal which is about 30% less than gasoline's value which is somewhere between 109K and 119K BTU/gal. The result is E-10 gas yields slightly less mpg. About 3% less. The reduction corresponds to the amount of ethanol in the gas. E85 is about 30% less than gasoline.

Pure ethanol has an octane rating of 100 (200 proof.) It is very useful in raising the octane rating of gasoline. In E-10 blended gas, ethanol makes up about 3% of the octane rating.

drewpy_dawg · « **Reply #6 on:** August 15, 2007, 11:44:37 PM »

The wife's bike was left to sit and not be run for two months at the shop I had it on consignment at. Never mind the fact that the JERKS should have run it once a week and let it heat up to keep the gas moving through it...but it was NOT a happy camper to start and after a jump-start and alot of "italian tune-up" procedures ran ok. It still isn't right. The mechanic blames the gas and I do not doubt him on that...but I also blame his lack of running the bike to keep all the fuel mixed as well.
Ethanol is VERY hydrophylic, aka it absorbs water. Its why Everclear is only 99% ethanol. Its why most ethanol purchased for Chemistry classes is 99%. The amount of energy it takes to extract that final 1% is lost the second you crack open the bottle and it absorbs water in the air.
You let a near full 5 gallon tank sit for 2 months in Houston and the ethanol is going to degrade and separate from the gas then start absorbing moisture from the never 100% perfect seal.
One of our cars has a VERY noticable dislike for ethanol. It idles roughly and the milage dropped 8 mpg when they switched to Ethanol last summer. ironically, its a 2006 model car! Our other vehicle we can't compare since we got it used recently.
/end rant

pmackie · « **Reply #7 on:** August 16, 2007, 12:25:14 PM »

I had a bad experience with E-10 on my Bandit a couple of years ago. The alcohol separated in use (about 4 hours) and when I switched to reserve, the engine quit. Stuck on the side of the highway 5 hours from home.

The blend is not always stable, and tends to separate if there is any moisture present. I think that the high frequency vibration of the little 600 wailing along contributed as well.

I avoid ethenol blends unless I have no choice.

rmtcook · « **Reply #8 on:** August 16, 2007, 02:36:02 PM »

Interesting. I just found out the Getty station I use to fill my bike has a 10% Ethanol mix and I'm wondering if that contributed to the problem I described in my Gasket thread. Does anyone know of a site that lists which of the major brands (Exxon, BP, Citgo, etc.,) sell the mix so we know what to avoid? I never saw any posting at the station I use that mentioned Ethanol. i had to call and ask.

drewpy_dawg · « **Reply #9 on:** August 16, 2007, 03:01:57 PM »

I think All have to...federal law in the US. MTBE got banned so ethanol is the only thing available to sorta do what MTBE is supposed to do. Ironic thing is on a fuel injected car it just hurts the milage and does nothing for emissions...

Red01 · « **Reply #10 on:** August 16, 2007, 03:28:00 PM »

Around here (WA), ARCO posts on their pumps they use 10% ethanol. If what a friend in the gasoline distribution business says is correct, ARCO doesn't blend their own premium and buys it from other major companies, so the premium in their pumps is ethanol-free and their mid-grade would be ~5%. Union 76 used to have ethanol warning labels on their pumps, but they seem to have disappeared about a year or so ago.

longislandbandit99 · « **Reply #11 on:** August 19, 2007, 10:14:03 PM »

I know that a lot of midwestern states are doing the E-diesel and all that kind of corn stuff. For the Jersey dude, I'm pretty sure that all of Jersey is 10% ethanol blended. The problem is that its never exactly 10% blended. The gas delivered to the large pump stations isn't blended with ethanol. It gets blended when it is filled into the tanker trucks that bring it to the gas stations.

The pumps at the station are supposed to have a sticker on them that says 10% ethanol. If one station has it, they'll all have it. Its a statewide thing in states that have switched to ethanol.

A lot of things say they can use ethanol no problem. Most if not all cars especially a 2006 should burn it no problem. The problem with ethanol is its a solvent and slightly, slightly acidic. It loves to eat away at rubber like o-rings and float valve tips. Gaskets and seals can be a problem too. It'll make a dirty gas tank squeaky clean in no time, problem is all the grit ends up in your carbs/injectors or clogs filters and screens and pretty much can wreak havoc all around.

As they've been saying around here in the marine industry, if you have ethanol in your gas use the boat/snow mobile/motorcycle as much as possible.

drewpy_dawg · « **Reply #12 on:** August 19, 2007, 10:19:31 PM »

Bio-Diesel is a whole different animal that actually is BETTER than its dino-alternative. Its only downside is that pre-90 diesel vehicles don't have the right type of rubber fuel lines...

Red01 · « **Reply #13 on:** August 20, 2007, 12:03:32 PM »

Quote from: "longislandbandit99"

It'll make a dirty gas tank squeaky clean in no time, problem is all the grit ends up in your carbs/injectors or clogs filters and screens and pretty much can wreak havoc all around.

While it is a cleaning agent, it also attracts water and if it collects much, it will separate from the gas and mix with the water. This alcohol/water mix is heavier than gasoline, so it settles to the bottom and the mixture won't burn worth a damn. A not-so-pleasant surprise the next time you flip the petcock to Reserve or Prime. This mix can also cause the formation of rust on ferrous metals... like the Bandit's gas tank.

longislandbandit99 · « **Reply #14 on:** August 24, 2007, 08:22:19 PM »

To be specific, ethanol is 200 times more likely to bond with water over gasoline. You can test how much ethanol is in your gas with a graduated cylinder, a medicine dropper and some water.