Front Fork Seals leaking

[bgrundy]

So, it looks like this is a repair I'll be able to do.  I ordered a set of progressive springs, and some fork seals from Holeshot.  Should be here next week.  

Hi,

I just moved from Laurel to Eldersburg (north of 70).  I did the fork seals on my Bandit 1200 a couple of weeks ago for the first time.  

You'll need something to drive the seal in with as well.  I used some PVC pipe with slots cut in one end and cable tied to fit over the fork slider.  You wont' be able to just "press" it in, and if you damage it going in (like banging it in with a hammer and punch), it'll leak again.The actual tool is pretty expensive (like $100).I can send you a pic of what I made if you like.

Did you ever get your reflectors?  You can get them at Heyser on Rt. 1 or at Ellicot Motor Sports on 40.  Use the stick on ones for the inspection.  A couple of bucks each.

Barry

[smitty225]

Wow!  Just a coupla weeks ago?!?  I was starting to think I was the only one in the dc metro area with a bandit!   If I had know you were here, you could have come and gotten that six pack.  

However, the picture of the pvc pipe will help a ton. That would tie it all together.  Since I haven't seen one anywhere else on the web, would it be alright to post it for the group?  That way, future bandito's would benefit as well.  

As you know I'm waiting for parts.  In fact, I have to get over to Heyser's for some fork oil.  I'll probably pick up some reflectors as well.  Two yellows for  the front and two red for the back.    I had hoped they would be cheap.  John at Used Bike Emporium (in Hanover), wanted $20 for  stickon reflectors.  I wonder if he saw me cringe, when he gave me the price.

Ride easy,
Mike

[bgrundy]

Okay,  As you'll notice, this will only be my second post, so bear with me.

The two tools I made for the forks were:

1) PVC pipe fork seal driver.  Got some 2" pipe from Home Depot, and cut some slots so that I could slide the pipe over the fork leg and have it fit over the seal perfectly.  Then use a rubber mallet to drive the seal in.  You have to drive it below the lip where the clip goes over it.  Takes more force then you'd imagine.



2) the second tool was for making the oil level correct.  The servcie manual specifies the correct level (measured from the top of the fork).  I got some tubing, a basting syringe from Target, and a bent piece of coat hanger.  The hanger is bent so the long part is *exactly* the specified depth of the oil.  cable tie the syringe from the baster to the wire so that the tip of the syringe is at the exact bottom of the wire.  Hang the wire into the fork and suck out the excess oil.  When no more oil comes out, it's at the right level.



Like I said earlier, I work in Greenbelt.  If you want to borrow what I've already made, we can *try* and link up.  No promises, though.  I tend to travel alot.  But I'll help if I can.

Barry

[smitty225]

Hey Barry,

Thanks for getting back to me so quickly.  I'm expecting the seals and springs on Thursday, so I'll be putting your instructions to use shortly.  You mentioned that you work in Greenbelt.  It's a small world.  You wouldn't happen to work at Goddard, would you?  That would be perfect.  If you wouldn't mind sharing your "tools", I'd be glad to pick em' up from you.

Mike

[bgrundy]

You wouldn't happen to work at Goddard, would you?  That would be perfect.  If you wouldn't mind sharing your "tools", I'd be glad to pick em' up from you.

Yep,  I'm at Goddard.  I'll bring them with me on Wednesday (I'm working in Baltimore today and tomorrow).   *IF* I dont' have to go to HQ in DC I'll be around Wed., Thurs, or Fri.  I'm sure we can link up at some point.  Do you work at Goddard??

[smitty225]

Yep.  I'm at GSFC.  Building 3/14.  

Mike
Call me. x63930

[smitty225]

Ok.  Here is what happened.

I got the forks off the bike.  Took off the cap bolt on top of the tubes, poured out the oil (it was a dirty looking brown), removed the spacer, the spring seat, and the stock fork spring.  

Here is where it gets fun.  The manual says to: "Insert the T-handle with the appropriate attachment tool into the fork tube until the tool engages the damper rod. Hold the damper rod with the tool and remove the Allen bolt and washer from the bottom of the fork slider."  Sounds easy enough if you have the "T-handle with the appropriate attachment tool".  Needless to say, I don't have one.  I tried jamming a rake handle into the tube to immobilize the damper rod, but it just keeps spinning when I try to unscrew the allen bolt.  

Unless I'm wrong, I need to unscrew this allen bolt to remove the damper rod to ultimately seperate the fork tube from the slider.

It turns out that the 1st gen bikes are a little bit different then the 2k's and beyond.

Any ideas before I give up and take the forks to Mr. Mechanic?

Smitty

[smitty225]

Well...without the special tool, I found this method at Race Tek's website.  I haven't tried it yet so I thought I would run it by you guys first.  Tell me what you think:

You now stand at a fork in the road. (Sorry about the pun.) To the left is the traditional means of replacing the fork seal: drain the fork, remove the damping rod bolt from the bottom of the slider, remove the damping rod, and -- returning to your prehistoric roots -- muscle the stanchion out of the slider. The advantage of this method is that you can actually inspect the fork bushing for signs of wear. The disadvantage is that lots of extra steps and sweat are involved.

So, instead, we'll take the road less traveled. All you'll need is some cheap motor oil, a catch pan, a jack, a piece of wood, and a car or truck. Fully extend the stanchion out of the slider and completely fill the fork with oil. If possible, make sure there is no air in the system. Reinstall the fork cap. You now have a closed system with nowhere for the oil to go. Lay the fork on top of the catch pan with one end against your garage door frame. Now park your car with its front wheel parallel to the door frame. Place a board across the car wheel and wedge your car's jack horizontally between the fork and the board. See Photo 5 to more clearly see what I am referring to. Slowly extend the jack. With nowhere to go, the fork seal will push out. As soon as the seal slides out far enough that you can pry it the rest of the way with a screwdriver, stop compressing the fork, or things could get messy.

Remove the fork cap and drain the oil into a recycling container (Photo 6). Pump the fork several times and drain again. Repeat until all of the oil has been removed. Before you slide the old seal off the stanchion, note its orientation. While most fork seals look similar, their orientation can vary from model to model. Closely inspect the stanchion for any dings. Minor ones can be cleaned up with a gentle rub of fine grit wet/dry sandpaper. Use a little WD-40 as lubricant and wrap a rag around the top of the slider to keep any dirt out of the fork. Wash the stanchion with contact cleaner and a rag. If you find a major ding, take the fork to your local bike shop to have a pro look at it.

Moisten the inner surface of the new seal with fresh fork oil. Carefully slip it over the top of the stanchion and slide it down to the slider. If you have a fancy seal driver set, simply drive the seal into the slider. If you're cheap like me, take the old seal, cut out the inner surface, and place it upside down over the new seal. If you're lucky, you were able to find a piece of PVC pipe that matches the outer diameter of the fork seal perfectly. If not, take a hacksaw and cut out six sections evenly spaced around the PVC (Photo 7). Clean up all the grit and place it over the stanchion. Wrap a beefy wire-tie around the pipe and tighten it until the PVC fingers fit the diameter of the fork seal. Now, tap the top of the PVC until the fork seal is completely seated. Remove the old seal and snap the retaining ring into its groove.

Smitty..

[Red01]

Makes sense.  You'd wanna be careful not to push the seal all the way out that way or you'd have a big mess, but they tell you that.

[smitty225]

Ok.  I didn't try the garage door trick.  

I stuck a broom handle in the damper and was able to free the allen bolt. I was able to separate the fork leg, slide off the seal and replace it, the retention ring, and the dust seal.  Put the small spring back around the damper, slid it into the fork leg, screwed the allen bolt back in (with the help of the broom handle).  Poured the oil in, measured 5.5" (correct for  a 96 bandit), slipped in the new progressive spring, a washer, and a piece of pvc spacer cut to 3.5".  Screwed the cap on.  One fork leg complete.

The next one was a challenge.  I lost confidence in the broom handle.  It was kinda on the skinny side.  I was afraid I would shear it in half and have a broken piece of wood stuck in the damper...and not be able to get it out.  So I found a piece of snow shovel handle in the corner.  It's a lot thicker, and still has the handle.  The handle would allow me to brace it from turning, so I could turn the allen bolt.  So, I shaved down one end and shoved it into the damper, but I couldn't get it to stop the damper from spinning.  

I wish I wasn't so hasty.  While I had the other damper out, I should have created a hack tool tailored to the top of the damper.  That would have made life easy.

I'll be making a stop at the mechanic tomorrow.

Smitty

[smitty225]

The other funny thing is that, I brought a liter of fork oil (about $10).  One liter has 1000ml of oil.  The manual say's that each for leg needs .521ml of oil (with stock springs).  One liter won’t be enough for both legs.  Now, the progressive springs are bigger and should displace more oil, thereby creating a need for less then .521ml.  How much? dunno.  I'll have to pick up another liter, just incase.

Smitty

[Red01]

Didn't the springs come with instructions?

If not, one way is to measure how far down your oil level is with the old springs and refill to that level with the new stuff.
Assuming you didn't have a leak to begin with.

[smitty225]

yes.  They come with instruction.  They say to measure down to 5.5" from the top of the tube.  What it doesn't say is exactly how much oil it takes to get to that measurement.

[Red01]

Hopefully, 500ml or less.  

[B12Teuton]

Don't forget to clean out the bottoms of the forks of any dirt, gunk, etc.  

Also, what oil are you going to use?