seafoam in crankcase oil?

[android12]

Just wondering but is seafoam or other engine cleaners a bad idea in the crankcase oil, since its wet clutch? I have to admit Itd be nice to change the oil once a year since I only put about 3500 miles a year on but the down side is the old dirty oil sits most of the winter. So if I change in spring and run seafoam in the crank before I change it, would that be bad? Or what the hell just change it twice a year?

[wizzobeer]

I have left my end of season oil in the bike since ownership ('06) with no noticeable ill effects. That being said I am aware of all the so called issues with this. A slightly more expensive method would be to just put the cheapest dino you can find and do a change at the beginning of the season.  As for the seafoam I have no experience but can not see how it would do any harm.

[Vlad]

- Put good oil in, or put whatever you find. As long as viscosity is within spec the only difference is the change interval.
- Use any oil that meets manufacturer's viscosity requirements and is not marked as "energy conserving".
- Car and diesel oils are just fine if you follow the point above.
- Change it once a year (in the fall) or more often if you ride enough.
- Don't change your oil if the change is not due, i.e. the bike was just sitting with relatively fresh oil in it for less than a year.
- Don't add anything to your oil but oil, ever.
- Use that Seafoam as a fuel stabilizer / fuel system cleaner - that's what it's good for.

If you ride so little that you change oil because it's old and not because it's worn I can pretty much guarantee that the bike will outlive you. Make sure you actually ride it at least every few months because if you don't no amount of oil change will help.

It's interesting how no one worries about stuff that their life really depends on. Like brake oil - the oil that deteriorates much faster and with much more serious consequences. Show of hands - how many readers of this thread have oil in their brakes that's older than 2 years?

[android12]

I thought the dino oil aged before a year?
Changed my brake and clutch fluid after 4 years and it was still yellow.

[Vlad]

I thought the dino oil aged before a year?

If you have a reputable source of that information please share it. I haven't seen expiry dates on oil containers yet.

Changed my brake and clutch fluid after 4 years and it was still yellow.

Still yellow is good, meaning that components are not wearing noticeably (or not being used), so no discoloring contaminants are being introduced. The color doesn't tell you anything about water though. The high hygroscopic characteristic of brake oil is the main reason for the two year recommended change interval - whether the bike was ridden for 40,000Km or not at all. Unlike with engine oil, brake oil change intervals are primarily determined by elapsed time since the last change.

[android12]

Hmmmm then why is there usually a mileage/month expiration on it? must be a conspiracy.

[Vlad]

Hmmmm then why is there usually a mileage/month expiration on it? must be a conspiracy.

Expiration? On what? Please be specific.

[Scubadvr]

Hmmmm then why is there usually a mileage/month expiration on it? must be a conspiracy.

The way I understand it, that supposedly refers to acids that build up in the oil as a by-product of combustion contamination (from blowby, plus all of the little nasties that the oil flushes away from the moving parts) and eventually attack the metal surfaces.  If you change to fresh oil just before storing and don't drive the bike, the oil should not have any of those by products, and you should be able to just ride it in the spring without changing it again.

However, if you change the oil, then ride it for 1,000 miles then let it sit for 6 months, theoretically some internal corrosion can occur from the normal contamination.

Personally, I think it's bunk.  I restored an old Honda Nighthawk that had sat for 12 years, and when I took the valve covers off, it looked brand new under there.  12-year-old oil didn't cause any corrosion. 

The old "3 months or 3,000 miles between oil changes" is for "extreme" service, according to most vehicle manuals (and clever marketing by Jiffy Lube and the like), and 5,000 miles is usually the acceptable range for "normal" driving conditions.  I've never seen an expiration stamp on a bottle of fresh oil.

Personally, I just go ahead and change my oil and filter about every 3,000-5,000 miles; it's cheap insurance and changing too often will never cause a problem, except in the pocketbook.

[Vlad]

Some more reads on oil changes:

http://www.dtsc.ca.gov/TechnologyDevelopment/OPPTD_FLY_High-Efficiency-Oil-Filters.cfm

http://www.moneybluebook.com/the-3000-mile-oil-change-myth-save-your-money/

The long handed down concept of the 3000 miles oil change was the brain child of Jiffy Lube and propagated by oil industry officials.


http://www.vfrworld.com/tex_vfr/tech/oil.htm

There is a good one in the June 1996 issue of Sport Rider magazine in a report called the "100,000 mile Honda CBR900RR." The owner used conventional Castrol GTX oil, 10W40 in the winter, 20W50 in the summer. He changed it every 4,000 miles, changing the filter every OTHER oil change. No valve clearance adjustments were required after the initial one at 16,000 miles. And a dyno test against the same model with only 6,722 miles showed torque and horsepower virtually identical. The 100,000 mile bike was even used for some racing. In a subsequent follow-up, the same CBR had passed 200,000 miles and was still going strong!

[H2RICK]

Just found this oil thread and wanted to add my .02 worth.

I ALWAYS put my bikes away for the winter with fresh oil and filter in them. The additive package in your oil does have acid neutralizers in it but without oil sampling how are you going to know when the neutralizer has been used up ?? Depending on how much blowby a particular engine has you could theoretically use up the neutralizer in 1000 miles......if your oil is low-rent with very little neutralizer in its additive package.
I don't even want to think of those acids eating away at the bearings
(both plain and ball/roller) in my engine all winter so that's my reasoning for the oil change as part of my winterization procedure.

As to brake and clutch FLUID....(please DON'T call it OIL.....newbies MIGHT be confused and end up using the wrong stuff when doing their own maintenance)
All THREE systems on my bike get flushed every two years. Brake fluid is cheap, parts are NOT and it takes very little time to flush all three systems out. The nicest part is how great everything feels (subjectively, at least) after you're done.

[Vlad]

I ALWAYS put my bikes away for the winter with fresh oil and filter in them.

You didn't say after how many kilometers you change your oil - time of year is completely irrelevant.

[H2RICK]

My oil TYPICALLY gets changed at between 2,000 - 4,000 kilometres.
2000-2500 if I'm using the bike around town.....up to 4000 if I've been on a road trip.
I use dino oil but have been thinking about changing over to a full synthetic this year.

time of year is completely irrelevant.

I beg to disagree with your view. That was the point of my post that it IS important to change the oil and filter just before putting the bike away for the winter because of the reasons outlined in my post. IMO, it makes no sense to lay your bike up for 5 or 6 months with dirty oil in the crankcase. If anyone can convince me otherwise with logical reasons, I'm willing to listen.

[Vlad]

My oil TYPICALLY gets changed at between 2,000 - 4,000 kilometres.

Wow. You really like to change oil...

2000-2500 if I'm using the bike around town.....up to 4000 if I've been on a road trip.

And for all the wrong reasons too. Do you know how much harder your oil works (faster deteriorates) in stop and go, short haul, commuter type riding? Do you know how little it's stressed on a trans-continental, more-less constant rpm, more-less constant temperature, much fewer gear changes, much less (and less frequent) acceleration ride?

I use dino oil but have been thinking about changing over to a full synthetic this year.

Don't bother. You are wasting too much time/money and hurting the environment already.

I beg to disagree with your view. That was the point of my post that it IS important to change the oil and filter just before putting the bike away for the winter because of the reasons outlined in my post.

The reasons you outlined are nothing more but folklore originally invented and pushed by those that want to sell you more oil. What does your owner's manual say? Even if manufacturer recommended intervals are not overly aggressive they are still way longer than what you do.

IMO, it makes no sense to lay your bike up for 5 or 6 months with dirty oil in the crankcase. If anyone can convince me otherwise with logical reasons, I'm willing to listen.

See your owner's manual, read up on some serious analysis and tests and decide for yourself. I couldn't care less if you change your oil before every ride, but don't try to sell other people old wife's tales as standard maintenance procedures.