Author Topic: B12 life span (Read 14020 times)

2WheelinDaily · « **on:** November 07, 2005, 04:36:41 PM »

I didn't see any topics related, but what is the expected life span of a B12?
I have a 2003 and have 22k + with no problems except maintenance (3 sets of tires, 1 replacement chain/sprockets, 9 oil/filter changes, 1 rear light bulb)<knock on wood>
Any major component failures to watch for?

PeteSC · « **Reply #1 on:** November 07, 2005, 06:18:59 PM »

There was one old style 1200 being used as a courier bike, that was well over 200K without any engine work, the last I heard.
There is an internal engine thing that's supposed to be done around 50,000 miles, but can't find it. Replace cam chain, or something?
Whatever it was involved a lot of labor hours.

There's really no known component failures, but you'll want to look at stuff that deteriorates after a couple of years....hoses...etc.

rider123 · « **Reply #2 on:** November 07, 2005, 06:26:39 PM »

Well I've heard about people with bandits at 100,000 kms and still going strong. My '84 GS750EF which is basically the same engine but in 750 form works great at 86,000kms. At 78,000 kms we had to do a top end rebuild as the guy who had it before me stored it too long without running it and some of the valve springs got weak. So we reground the valves, cleaned up the head and put in new springs and she was good as new. Even all the rings and pistons were within spec. Only number 2 cylinder was slightly worn but still within spec. THis is after 20+ years and 10 owners according to my used vehicle package and who know what kind of maintenance. The oil cooler line developed a little seepage last year and I replaced it about 10 mins and for $50. Judging by the condition of the line it was original. So I'd say a slightly leaky oil line in 20+ years says something about the reliabliity of the cooling system. The engine and drivetrain are overengineered on these bikes, as long as you do your part I can't see why these won't go 100,000+ kms with no problems. What usually goes, at least in the older versions, is the electrical bits. Stators, regulator/rectifiers, instrumentation, etc. In fact in my years of owning GS's and going to the GSresources page I've yet to see a catastrophic engine or drivetrain failure EVER on a properly maintaned GS motor. These things are meant to last if you do your part.

These engines are hard to kill. You can enjoy them as long as you are willing to do the maintenance(which is minor), and dont let the engine sit too long in one position when stored, crank it over a few times to change which valve springs are compressed or not. The whole reason I bought this bike new is I want to ride it for a minimum of 10 years and 100,000 kms!!

Red01 · « **Reply #3 on:** November 07, 2005, 07:10:14 PM »

Last I heard, the courier guy had retired his B12 from courier duty and just uses it for pleasure riding now that it's broken 300,000 miles. There are several B12's with over 100K miles and a couple over 200K on another Bandit site.

It does seem typical for clutches to start to go ~50K miles and a few have reported cam chain problems between 50-100K. Beyond that, if you do normal PM, they will last as long as a typical cage as long as you can manage to keep from trhowing them down the road or become a victom to a blind cager.

rider123 · « **Reply #4 on:** November 08, 2005, 02:42:34 AM »

300,000 miles!!!!!!!!! Holy!!! I haven't had multiple cars added up with that kind of milage! Any links?

Red01 · « **Reply #5 on:** November 08, 2005, 09:00:47 PM »

You may be able to find something over at Max-Suz, IIRC, he posts/posted over there more than here.

LowRyter · « **Reply #6 on:** November 09, 2005, 07:55:03 PM »

mine has 48k miles, doesnt use oil, rattles like a diesel, goes like a Bandit.

John 98 Red B12

speedytriple · « **Reply #7 on:** November 09, 2005, 11:51:22 PM »

heck roamr had over 70k on his 98 when he got rid of it. never had any major problems. he did say the cam chain was getting loose. i did over 27k on mine in 2 years with no problems. i am thinking about getting a bandit again. there is a 02 naked in a shop by me with 4k on it with a m4 pipe real clean with new tires on it asking 4900 for it.

mike

Slider · « **Reply #8 on:** November 24, 2005, 04:49:48 AM »

From all the information that I can gather, mileage isn't an issue.
... but maintenance IS.
The auto guys who know hereabouts swear by synthetic oil. These are the guys who tear down engines are rebuild 'em and my son is part of the group. (they are astonishing for building cars from parts of Differet models... sometime makes... but that's a different story). The point is that sometimes they go into an engine with a lot of miles, (k's up here in beaverland), but still see the orignal hone marks on the cylinder walls. They say synthetic works & I have switched.

That said, consider this. Most bike engines don't work very hard, especially the B12 variety. If you did, you'd lose your liscense/life pretty quick. They just luff along most of the time in traffic of sorts. The brief burst of going on afterburners doen't last long for me, anyway.

No biking here now... *&^%$#@ snow outside!

Desolation Angel · « **Reply #9 on:** November 24, 2005, 01:07:42 PM »

You all mentioned synthetic oil. I heard somewhere, maybe on The GSResources, that the clutches didn't function well in synthetic?? Something like that. Not sure. Ring any bells?

Maniac · « **Reply #10 on:** November 24, 2005, 01:37:06 PM »

Quote from: "Desolation Angel"

You all mentioned synthetic oil. I heard somewhere, maybe on The GSResources, that the clutches didn't function well in synthetic?? Something like that. Not sure. Ring any bells?

Regular synthetic oil will cause 'glazing' on the plates of a wet-sump clutch, which futzes it up. Most 'Motorcycle' synthetic has special adatives to solve this issue. To be sure, check the back and see if it says 'OK for Wet-Sump clutchs' or 'Not for use with Wet-Sump clutchs'

I ran Synthetic in my 400 for a while, it worked well and I didn't have any issues with the clutch once I adjusted it properly.

Kickstart · « **Reply #11 on:** November 24, 2005, 06:30:18 PM »

Hi

Used car synthetic oil in loads of bikes with wet clutches without any problems. Seems to be down to the individual oil rather than whether it is synthetic or not.

All the best

Keith

ray nielsen · « **Reply #12 on:** November 24, 2005, 09:47:07 PM »

Some oils, synhetics included, contain friction modifiers that are recommended by the car makers toward increasing fuel mileage.

Generally oils that are lighter have these FMs while the heavier oils do not.

Among the synthetics Mobil 1 Truck & SUV (5W-40) and Mobil 1 Extended Interval (15W-50) are two that do not have friction modifiers. There may be others among the various oil suppliers, usually with weights of 10W-40 and higher that are also FM free.

Usually you can spot the doughnut API symbol on the front or back of the package that includes the wording "Energy Conserving" in the bottom half of the doughnut. It is those friction modified oils that MIGHT cause clutch slippage. A couple of oil experts claim they know of NO ONE who has documented that slippage with non-friction modified oils, synethetic or mineral based.

In my experience with lots of motorcycle repairs, the major reason for clutch slippage is sacked out clutch springs. Seems many Jap bikes use music wire for spring material and they DO sack out with miles. I've seen several cases where the sackage is over 10% compared to the original free length. This coupled with some polishing or glazing of the clutch friction plates are the usual reasons for slippage at high mileage or heavy duty use. The glazing usually requires clutch replacement, but sometimes just replacing the springs with better chrome-silicon springs from KG Clutch Factory, Barnett or EBC will cure the slippage.

An old wive's tale suggests that synthetics are "slippier" than mineral oils, but that doesn't hold up under scrutiny. Viscosities are measured by the same scales whether synthetic or regular oils are compared. Synthetics often hold their viscosity ratings well beyond the normal oil change intervals suggested for regular oils.

I've documented this several times over the last couple of years by sending oil samples to Blackstone Laboratories in Fort Wayne, IN for cnalysis. Among other things they measure the viscosity and Total Base Number (TBN) which indicates the ability to resist acid formation.

At over 9K miles in my Bandit the 15W-50 still showed a TBN of 9.2, down from the original 12 and well above the recommended minimum of 1-2. The 15W-50 seems to have the highest TBN offered by Mobil along with the Truck & SUV oil -- other Mobil 1 oils in different weights are lower initially and of course they drop even further with use. For example Mobil 1 5W-30, orignially a TBN of 9.8 had dropped to 3.2 after 13K miles in my wife's Ford Contour -- still safe, but near the end of that safety zone.

There have been some scares noted about the newest version of Mobil 1 15W-50 since they brought out the extended service version, but it seems mostly a misdirected scare as I've been using it along with several friends with NO problems and NO clutch slippage.

Hope that adds a bit of information to the discussion.

Red01 · « **Reply #13 on:** November 25, 2005, 07:45:38 PM »

Quote from: "ray nielsen"

Some oils, synhetics included, contain friction modifiers that are recommended by the car makers toward increasing fuel mileage.

Generally oils that are lighter have these FMs while the heavier oils do not.

Among the synthetics Mobil 1 Truck & SUV (5W-40) and Mobil 1 Extended Interval (15W-50) are two that do not have friction modifiers. There may be others among the various oil suppliers, usually with weights of 10W-40 and higher that are also FM free.

If the oil is rated with "EC" (Energy Conserving), there's a very high probabilty (possibly a certainty?) it will contail these friction modifiers. Also, if the oil is rated for use in diesel engines, there's a very low probabilty it will contain friction modifiers that will be harmful to a wet clutch. Diesel rated oils (CE, CF, etc.) tend to have more shear strength than gas-only oils, and your gearbox likes that. (I haven't noticed any oil yet that carries a S* (gas) & C* (diesel) rating and also has the EC starburst.

B6mick · « **Reply #14 on:** November 26, 2005, 08:00:33 AM »

Mate if ya don't get 200,000 miles out of Bandit 1200 motor you need to be shot, drawn and quatered, and hang from the nearest yard arm, in random order. For failing to even half care for your ride. The GSXR dereived motor is tried, tested, tortured and still the best air cooled motor around. Basic hard working no bullshyte motor. My ( should I say the wifes) wee little B6 now has in your terms 66 thousand miles up, dont use oil, has been flogged all of its life, and just keeps getting better, if we dont get 150 thousand miles out of that motor I will sorely be disapointed.
The only other way I will have any need to do anything to that motor is when the little women wants more horses

I guess that will not be long, she hates having just under 100 hp when everybody else has 130 hp+