Almost crashed yesterday..and loud pipes don't help!

[smitty225]

I got a wake up call yesterday.  I was on a very lightly travelled road, just coming up to speed, maybe doing 25-30mph.  60 feet ahead was an intersection.  I saw the cager (women, minivan, cellphone) sitting at the stop sign to my left.  I had no stop sign and was two car lengths behind the van in front of me.  The van went through the intersection, I proceeded through the intersection.  Half way through, the lady hooked her left and almost ran me into the curb!  

I've got a D&D can.  It's pretty loud (I thought).  The lady didn't even stop.  I caught up to her at the next intersection.  She was off the phone now.  After apologizing, she said "I didn't see you."  All I can say is cell phones are dangerous.  Watch you A** out there.  It only takes a simple mistake, and your toast.

I need to practice my panic stops.  All I could manage was to pull in the clutch and lightly step on the rear brake...and get out of the way.  If she had made the that turn wider, I would have been crunched.

[aussiebandit]

At the end of the day - there is nothing that will protect us against stupidity.

As for people who use mobile phones (cell phones) without hands free, when driving - well it's against the law in the land of Oz, but it doesn't stop 'em.

I saw a doco on Pay TV a couple of years ago - it was made in the UK - it did some driving skills tests with 10 drivers - men and women, young and old, small and large.  The tests were conducted while they were sober, over 0.05, sober but on the phone (not hands free), sober and on the phone (hands free) and over 0.05 and on the phone (not hands free)

Not surprising was that no one drove particularly well pissed and the phone.  In fact one young man - couldn't even manage to pull away from the curb without turning the wrong way.

What I was surprised to see was that all bar one of them was a worse driver on the phone (not hands free) than they were pissed and that there wasn't much difference between being pissed and being on the hands free.

Essentially when you're pissed your reactions are too slow -  when you're on the phone you're to distracted to react quickly.  After seeing that, I now either pull over and answer the phone - or just I just let it ring out - my theory being that if it's important enough who ever is ringing will either ring back or leave a message.

[B6mick]

This just about sums it up, sorry to any cops on the board.
But not only where I live, but the lads in the UK are feeling as I do.
Cause for the most part, our policing of road safety is done in the same fashion. So there is little wonder peoples just drive around in a total day dream, their ok just as long as their not speeding. And if there is any Vic cops looking, as well as some UK plods, I hope your ashamed of yourselves, as well you bloody well should be.


Editorial from Streetfighter Mag
Fighting talk
by Will Jobbins




So I’m riding home from work aboard my trusty R1 workhorse, and just turning off the M25 into Brentwood. On the roundabout there are traffic lights and 3 lanes, the left intended for people filtering off into Brentwood, and between the left and centre lanes I sit, waiting for the green light.
Green on, and I click into first and pull away. Suddenly I’m dimly aware of a car careering towards me from my right. I look over, and sure enough there’s some dickhead who’s cut up 2 lanes of traffic and seems intent on introducing me to Mr Tarmac via Mrs Front Wing.
No Brother, I think, He’s in a Nissan Micra and I’m on an R1…. So with 2nd gear selected I Judiciously wang the R1 into it’s powerband and accelerate away from him and into the sharp left hand turn.
It was just as I applied the brakes and tipped into the corner that I smelt it You know the smell…. A sweet chemical odour that is guaranteed to have any cornering bikers arse twitching like a ferret with it’s paw in the mains. Your head shouts RELAX but your body’s tensing up……Diesel. A F#*#*# great slick ot it right across the road. So I think smooth, smoothly does it… and oh so gently come off the brakes and roll on the gas on in one fluid movement.
After one heart-stopping twitch from the front end and a biiiig sideways movement from the rear, saved only by jabbing my foot on the road, I realize I’ve made it round the corner! Then and only then, do I spy the Essex Constabulary speed camera van, complete with it’s entourage of 3 pursuit vehicles, all parked up in the layby 50 yards up the road.
They watched the bloke cut me up. They watched as I slipped and slid across the road, trying to hold my bike up at 40MPH with all the grip of a freshly WD40’d ice rink. Did they give a F#*#? Apparently not….
Now the dangers of diesel to bikers have been well documented, especially in a certain motorcycling weekly newspaper. The dangers of F#*#wit drivers are obvious to all, possibly apart from the F*#*wits themselves. But the Boys in Blue were more concerned with measuring my speed and checking I was not posing a danger to anybody!
Sorry guys, this was the clearest case I’ve ever seen for stating that you’re simply after revenue. If you were truly concerned with road safety, I’d like to think you’d put out  a warning sign by the diesel slick. I mean, you have a triangle in your boot, right? And even you could drag your fat  doughnut-ridden, spotty arse 50 yards down the road to put it out to warn motorcyclist and other road user, right? And even you could pull over a car driver, who’s just cut up 2 lanes of traffic cos he wasn’t in the right lane, and give him a bollocking, right?
Wrong. But at least you made a few quid out of some poor sod who was doing 50MPH in the 40MPH limit, eh?
Hows the revenue target looking these days?

And having being a fan of the streetfighter mag for years, I would just about bet my left knacker his R1 had a loud pipe, and it didn't help him much either. But I bet my right knacker he will be able to tell a story like me on a couple of times a loud pipe did. ( Yes that does mean I've just  bet both me knackers in one post, and the little pregent woman would be very happy if I lost both right now. Morning sickness is kicking in and I think she's just about had enough of it already only 7 months to go )

[12sdrag]

I hate a close call, but its better then a hit.

[snofrog]

I usually have to go find the nearest spot to pull over and chill for 1/2 an hour or so after something like that as I have uncontrolled anger management issues

[Bazza]

According to the University of Minnisota, loud pipes don't save lives.

In fact a car will only hear your bike once you have passed them. In their study, loud pipes gave a rider no safety advantage what so ever.

As a licensed rider of 33 years with no car collisions under my belt, the advise I give to new riders is to ride like you are invisible, and that every cage on the road want's to kill you. The only way you will survive is to anticipate a cars next move, and never, ever ride in a position where if a cage makes a sudden lane change, he/she will hit you.

Hey it's worked for me so far!

I was unable to locate the origional U of M study, but here is an article written by an RCMP constable that pretty much confirms the U of M study.



LOUD PIPES DON'T SAVE LIVES,
TRAINED RIDERS DO!
I wrote an article on the above subject that generated some controversy. I posted it on the RCMP media website and it went country wide. It ended up in many newspepers and on several motorcycle discussion group bulletin boards and the rersponses there were interesting, to say the least. The "loudest" detractors were the riders who obviously had them installed on their bikes.

Testosterone or personal pride had blinded them to admitting that they were in no way a safety product, but simply another way of shouting "look at me". The whole subject was raised at the BC/AB rally in August when the Province newspaper carried a story about a Police crackdown on illegal systems, in response to numerous public complaints. It also carried pictures and quotes from a couple of the unapologetic riders who swore they would never remove the loud & illegal systems. Read on.

Start SEEING Motorcycles!!
"Police Crackdown on loud motorcycles" read the headlines. The stories that followed covered Police responses to public complaints about loud and illegal exhaust systems on motorcycles in different areas across B.C. It also documented responses from motorcycle riders who operated bikes with the systems that annoyed others. The riders of these loud machines touted the “loud pipes save lives” myth as their explanation for breaking the laws and annoying the public. As an experienced Member of the RCMP Vancouver Island Traffic Services, Police Motorcycle Operator, a Licenced Driving Instructor, A Senior Instructor of the RCMP Police Motorcycle Course, The Assistant National Director of Rider Education for the Gold Wing Road Riders Assn and a recreational and competition rider for 43 years, I have some insight to offer on this subject.

Analysis of thousands of motorcycle crashes, including the "Hurt Report" and our own ICBC data continues to show the recurring factors that cause car vs motorcycle crashes. The major cause is "the driver of the other vehicle violates the motorcyclists right of way". They do this by "making a left turn in front of the oncoming motorcycle". "More than 3/4ths of all accident hazards are within 45 degrees of either side of straight ahead". "The driver of the other vehicle did not SEE the motorcycle".

Another fact that these reports show is that 92% of the riders had no "professional" rider training experience. The ICBC books "RoadSense for Riders and Tuning Up for Riders" discuss a process called "hazard perception" and suggest riders "see-think-do" (it has also been called "SIPDE"). It involves a process where the rider actively scans the road ahead looking for anything that could cause problems, recognizes the problem, plans a way around it and leaves themselves an "out" if needed. Take a course and give yourself all the options you can get when you ride.

A safe, trained rider realizing that dark clothing and helmets makes them blend into other traffic, wears brighter colours. Why not install a headlight modulator and replace your "RoadRunner meep meep" horn with a louder air horn? Don’t replace your turn signals and brake lights with aftermarket ones that are hard to see and expect car drivers to see them. Use hand signals in addition to the signals so that your turning and braking is really obvious. All that removing the legal exhaust system from a motorcycle does is annoy others. The single biggest complaint Police get about bikes is for noise. A system that is facing to the rear of a machine will have no effect on alerting the oncoming traffic that is "within 45 degrees of straight ahead" but a headlight modulator, a set of air horns and bright clothing can. As a matter of note, only 1.2% of motorcycles were hit from behind while stopped.- the direction the pipes are pointing. If a vehicle is encroaching into your lane, move away and give them a blast of horn instead. If you are only relying on loud pipes pointing to the rear to save you, you have thrown away all the most effective tools.

The motorcycle awareness bumper sticker says it all...”Start SEEING Motorcycles”. I have never heard of any crash where the driver of the offending car said .."but Constable I didn’t HEAR the motorcycle".

Dave Hay, Cst.
Vancouver Island Traffic Services (South)
9921 Chemainus Rd.
Chemainus, B.C. V0R 1K1

Phone: (250) 416-0352
Fax: (250) 416 0354
Email: Dave.Hay@rcmp-grc.ca.ca

I would be interested in your point of view on this subject and would be happy to post it here next month. Drop me a line.

The origional article can be found here....

http://www.vwh.ca/rider-ed-canada/news.html

[B6mick]

Still reckon ya wrong. No that’s not right; it should say I know you’re wrong. Round 4

And my personal study, my B6 with standard pipe, working as a courier, the same B6, 6 months later with louder pipe, still working as a courier, says it does work, and I think you would agree that drivers have not got better, and to add to that if I am an such an annoyance to drivers because of the noise, well F*#* me standing, to be an annoyance, at least they would have, had to have first noticed me. But once again I say if louder pipes save one single life, because someone notices, a rider even if it is deemed an annoyance then they are worth while. The same arguement that had us wearing helmets. I am not deeming loud pipes as a safety devise, but what I am saying is the so called studies claiming that loud pipes do not save lives by the anti noise Nazis do not hold water.

Yes rider education does help, all for it.
Yes High Vis riding gear may help, if the drivers in fact look. Tried it, found it a total waste of effort putting it on in the mornings. But I will not mock anyone using it.
This once again brings me to this.
Vision is at best, across the horizon 180 degrees, yet our hearing even as hearing impaired as I am, is a sense that works a full 360 degrees across the horizon. Being heard can make a driver aware of a rider’s presence. Now before anyone tries to tell me that one would need a pipe that faces forward for it to work if we are behind, please do not waste our time with such a BS argument. I've worked for many years in rock and roll industries, hence my hearing problems, and I do know very well how sound frequencies travel. I also know I can sit on my front porch at night and hear bikes coming maybe a little less, as well as going. Or is it you guys have something we down here don’t, and I seem to ask this every time this BS raises its ugly head, have you guys got bikes that break the speed of sound, if so send pic’s and spec’s, I want one.

When are the anti noise Nazis of the world going to come forth with real evidence, proof instead of hearsay and conjecture, and prove inconclusively that loud pipes do not save lives? Answer never, because they can not do so. Why not? Because they can only use statistics from actual accidents, where quite obviously nothing helped, loud pipe Hi Vis riding gear, advanced rider education, nothing helped, obviously because there was an accident. The statistics of accidents actually adverted by louder pipes can not be accumulated, simply because there was no accident to gain evidence from. Till such time, that statistics can be accumulated from near misses; all so called studies, claiming that loud pipes do not save lives, should be deemed as nothing more than, hearsay and or conjecture.

Oh but it is an annoyance, oh didums, so are truck J brakes, and jet aircraft, so are all the bloody barking dogs, and the fireworks, and the prick that fires up his lawn mower at 7:15 am on a Sunday morning, (oh shyte that’s me), the fire station siren just around the corner, the bloody police car sirens, even if they are chasing some lowlife, the kid across the road with the doof dooof music and the screaming bloody infant in the restaurant when I’m trying to have a peaceful meal. Well best I get on my soapbox and ban them all, no in fact I shall become a Nazi too, I’ll have them all shot, they all shyte me. Grrrrrrrr.

Ready for round 5.

[lucas]

Hi all,

I have to comment. First, I find it helpful to get in behind a loud harley while lane splitting. The cars part like the Red Sea.

Also, and this concerns visibility. I worked for several years in the risk management department of a so cal bus company. I read many accident reports. I was amazed to read over and over again the comment from people that hit buses: "I DID NOT SEE THE BUS". They had turned in front of them, hit them from the rear. every possible location. And over and over it was "I did not see the bus".

Now what chance do you think you have on a motorcycle if these people could not see a bus?

Be afraid, very afraid!

Lucas