comparingBandit to DL1000

[Drumbeater]

Hi all,

 Let me tell you what I'm up against.

I currently have a cruiser (HD Road King), which I plan on keeping pretty much forever.  I like cruiser riding, but it just ain't always happening with me.  I have two sets of friends: the leather clad cruisers who's motto is "low and slow", and another set of friends who's motto is "What color was that bike we just passed?"  Of course, the sport bike riders always invite me to go riding with them, but even though I'm an advanced rider, I'm dead weight with the RK.

So, I've decided that I really need a commuter bike, capable of some touring, all day riding, and the occassional passenger.  I feel I probably only need a topcase, as side luggage will probably be overkill.  If I'm gone for 3 days, I'll take the King, thank you very much.

I think I have a good handle on the capabilities and limitations of the DL1000.  The biggest plus is the ability to navigate dirt roads for camping.  But I could sacrifice this feature if the Bandit meets my other needs.  

I'm not looking for a superbike, I think the Bandit will be fine for most of my applications.  I want a spirited bike, as the sportbike riders I hang with don't exhibit insane behavior.    But I wanted to ask you guys and gals a few specific questions.  Oh, and I did look around for about two days or so before registering - very impressive site, and a lot of my questions were answered.  I just wanted to address some specific ones.

1) I really don't want to have to swap out pipes, open up the intake, rejet, etc...  In stock form, do you think the Bandit 1200S is capable of keeping up with the sportbike riders (barring my own skill, I'll work on that when I get the bike)?  It's not like we are pitting our skills agains each other, I just don't want to be left behind if they decide to open it up on a straight part.

2) How comfortable is the bike after say, 6 hours?  Does the ergonomics hurt the wrists, arms?  How about the leg position?  In the showroom, it felt very comfortable, unlike themore agressive positions of the superbikes.

3)  Gas milage is a factor.  I read somwhere that a Bandit owner had to refill about every 95 miles.  Those seem like some very short legs to me.  I want to tour, now worry where the next gas station is coming from.  Is this about right?

4) on twisty backroads, how does the bike handle in the curves?  Pretty stable?  Does it wallow any?  If so, what's the fix?  Are the stock tires fine, or will I need to upgrade?

Thanks in advance, all ideas are welcome!

[PeteSC]

Both the DL and the B12 would work for you.  I think the DL may be a hair more comfortable with a passenger.  (Been touted in the press as a good two-up bike.)
  A stock B12, 2001 or newer (with a slightly larger tank than the 2000 and older. should have adequate range for touring.
   I think the DL has a bigger tank.
  I'm not 100% sure what 'mods' are typical on the DL 1000.  You could probably search for a DL rider board and get an idea of what riders are changing on the bikes, for an idea of what could be 'fixed'.
       There are actually a lot of people riding stock Bandits.  It's a decent bike as it is.    If you want to do some aggressive riding in the twisties, with sportbikes, you CAN keep up if you're a competent rider.
   The biggest shortcoming of the stock Bandit that you'll discover with aggressive riding, is the suspension.   The suspension can be corrected for pretty modest money.  The stock suspension is good for a 120 pound Japanese guy, not worth a damn for us 'normal' people.
  Easy suspension fixes are Progressive fork springs.....$70
  Maybe a 'Busa shock in the rear, (If you want to fiddle, and save sserious money)  $30 or so on Ebay.
 Or a Progressive 420, Fox TC, or more exotic rear shock ...$400 up.
  The riding postion is good,but  a lot of us tweak it  with different bars.
  The seat may need to be addressed.  $130 for a Suz Gel seat, more for Sargent or Corbin.
  In reality, probably a majority of us spend $1000 or more on upgrades after buying a B12.   $1000 goes a long way on a Bandit.
  A lot of the MPG problems come from jet kits and carbs that aren't quite right. (I think!)   Most of us want a bit more 'grunt', and smoother power throughout the band, and are willing to deal with lower MPG.  
  The OEM tires are OK.   No sense replacing them until you have to.
   When you replace, there's better stuff out there.

   The longest 'day' I've done on my B12 is 650 miles.   People have done a lot more.  At least one guy has done a 'CC50' on a BAndit.
  (coast to coast in under 50 hours, documented.)
  Either bike will suit your purposes, and be a totally different beast than your H-D.
   I like the DL, and thought about buying one as a second bike to explore a bit of modest off road/unpaved stuff.   I ended up buying a DR650 as a second bike.......and love it.    

  FWIW, we had an ex BAndit rider show up with a DL650 at our rally last year. He loved the bike, had bought it in Cal, rode east with the Paper tags on it, and probably had 10000 miles on it before he went back to Cal to get his permanent tag.  THEN.....he headed north to ALaska!

  We have our annual rally in Meadows of Dan, VA next month.
  If you're still looking for answers, or have bought a Bandit......show up!
Some people are riding in from as far as Texas, and parts of Canada.

[snofrog]

Hi all,

 Let me tell you what I'm up against.

I currently have a cruiser (HD Road King), which I plan on keeping pretty much forever.  I like cruiser riding, but it just ain't always happening with me.  I have two sets of friends: the leather clad cruisers who's motto is "low and slow", and another set of friends who's motto is "What color was that bike we just passed?"  Of course, the sport bike riders always invite me to go riding with them, but even though I'm an advanced rider, I'm dead weight with the RK.

So, I've decided that I really need a commuter bike, capable of some touring, all day riding, and the occassional passenger.  I feel I probably only need a topcase, as side luggage will probably be overkill.  If I'm gone for 3 days, I'll take the King, thank you very much.

I think I have a good handle on the capabilities and limitations of the DL1000.  The biggest plus is the ability to navigate dirt roads for camping.  But I could sacrifice this feature if the Bandit meets my other needs.  

I'm not looking for a superbike, I think the Bandit will be fine for most of my applications.  I want a spirited bike, as the sportbike riders I hang with don't exhibit insane behavior.    But I wanted to ask you guys and gals a few specific questions.  Oh, and I did look around for about two days or so before registering - very impressive site, and a lot of my questions were answered.  I just wanted to address some specific ones.

1) I really don't want to have to swap out pipes, open up the intake, rejet, etc...  In stock form, do you think the Bandit 1200S is capable of keeping up with the sportbike riders (barring my own skill, I'll work on that when I get the bike)?  It's not like we are pitting our skills agains each other, I just don't want to be left behind if they decide to open it up on a straight part.

yes you can drive the bandit stock and keep up with some sportbikes .i ride with a guy on an r-1 and can keep up anywhere he want`s to go  barring a top speed run .my bike has seen 165 on the speedo and still slowly climbing (what that speed is in reality ?best guess ) and i can beat him to 100 in a drag . Bandits are cold blooded period  you dont have to rejet but you will require longer warmups

2) How comfortable is the bike after say, 6 hours?  Does the ergonomics hurt the wrists, arms?  How about the leg position?  In the showroom, it felt very comfortable, unlike themore agressive positions of the superbikes.

i`m not a distance rider but 3-4 hours is no problem and 700 miles in one day (my personal best ) left me a little bow legged .everyone is different

3)  Gas milage is a factor.  I read somwhere that a Bandit owner had to refill about every 95 miles.  Those seem like some very short legs to me.  I want to tour, now worry where the next gas station is coming from.  Is this about right?

 on my bandit if i am just cruising on the e-way 46-49 mpg is the norm .with spirited riding i can lower that to around 30. how do you ride?

4) on twisty backroads, how does the bike handle in the curves?  Pretty stable?  Does it wallow any?  If so, what's the fix?  Are the stock tires fine, or will I need to upgrade?

as i mentiond before back roads are a blast and stability is a highpoint for the bandit and the upgrades are obviously an improvement but still not required
the new sportbikes are about a 100 pounds lighter than a full zoot bandit and given a great rider on a sportbike he or she could make a bandit rider look silly .but given equal talent on both bikes you should keep up no sweat .my  chicken strips are 1/8 " on both sides of the tire .i have 7000 miles on it and it is just starting to flatten out .with proper inflation it handles great  but it isnt a track tire .the suspension is fairly soft i have mine set stiff for the weekends and soft for the commute .but then if you are coming from a rk my soft may be your firm ,in the end it`s all subjective .jmho .M

Thanks in advance, all ideas are welcome!

[Drumbeater]

Wow, Pete and Snowfrog... thanks for the replies.  I won't be making any decisions for at least a few days, and I'll be stopping by off and on every day to read any further thoughts from others.

The Bandit is an awsome bike from what I have read.  Now that I'm thinking about it, let me ask ya'll, what do you think of the 2005 color scheme (blue and white)?   When I first saw it, I said to myself, "damn, that is a retro paint scheme, making an older designed bike look even more dated".  I'm not sure what to think about that just yet.  I honestly may think about a used '04.

Oh, Snowfrog...  How do I ride?  I suspect with my Bandit or VStrom, I'll be pretty agressive.  I've pulled a couple of people out of a ditch, so I don't think I'll push it too far.    

[PeteSC]

The "05 looks OK in person, a lot of people aren't real fond of the shiny black plastic chassis panel on both sides....guess it's airbox cover.
  Snofrog....what did you say?
 
   Realistically,  you can usually find a new Bandit for around $6500-7000.
  The bike is a sleeper, and the resale values aren't great.
   BTW, even though the b12 is 'porky', it's still 200 pounds lighter than the Road King.
  Stock, the B12 is around 100 HP, and torque around 70 lb feet.
  It's real easy to get them up to the 115-120 hp range.  (Jet kit, slipon)
  You'd feel like you're on a superbike after you get off the H-D.

  Oh yeah, you can find some super  clean, low miles Bandits, cheap.
Avoid the 01 and early 02 models.   Some of them had the wrong pistons installed at the factory, and you can have some pretty serious oil usage problems.  (And less than stellar support from Suz.)
What did I forget, Paul?

[Red01]

1) As Pete mentioned, stock power is ~100 at the tire. The bike is good for ~150mph out of the box with 0-60 times in the low to mid 3's. It'll hang with sport bikes, especially if you're a good rider. It has better mid-range than most sport bikes, so you won't have to row the gearbox as much as they do. While it won't do dirt roads as well as a DL, it will keep up with your sporting buds better.

2) The ergos are barely more agressive that a "standard" motorcycle (UJM) of a decade or more ago, so your wrists shouldn't be hurting after a full day.  I do all-day rides almost any time it comes out of the garage and 3-4 day tours whenever I can get away (not often enough, IMHO). Many of us aren't big fans of the stock seat and have opted for a custom seat or the now discontinued optional gel seat.

3) If someone is only getting 95 miles out of a tank, they have a serious problem! The 1G bikes hold 5 gallons and the 2G holds 5.3. The "main" part of the tank is ~4 gallons on both. You should be able to get 150 miles out of the 4 gallons, even when riding hard if the bike is all stock. Stock 1200's get 40-45mpg.

4) With stock suspension, it will wallow if pushed HARD. How much will have to do with how heavy you are. It seems the bike was designed for a 140-150lb rider, anything more than that and you may find it lacking. Upgrades are available, and any of the ones you read about in the FAQ will be an improvement. The stock tires are OK. There are better tires out there, but most of us wear the OEM tires out before moving on to something else.

The multi-color paint on the '05 seems to be a love it or hate it thing. I don't think of it as retro so much as leaning on the factory's racing colors.
Personally, I love it. Not enough to get rid of a perfectly good 2001 though.

[BBurton]

Sounds to me like a DL1000 would be a better bike for you. I love my B12 very much but I would consider  trading it in for a Vstrom without question. The DL1000 Vstrom is fuel injected so you would never need to worry about rejetting and the Vtwin engine packs quite a punch. Its alot different than the Vtwins you are used to. All motorcycle mags say that the DL is a poor mans BMW and actually outperforms in many categories. The Bandit can be a pretty decent long distance bike and it is very capable of getting you there in a hurry. If you want to rack up the miles and have fun in the twisties too, the DL1000 is mint.  

[snofrog]

Snofrog....what did you say?
 
   


 i said a lot of things witch one are you questioning ?M

[Red01]

The DL1000 Vstrom is fuel injected so you would never need to worry about rejetting

No, instead you have to reprogram. Six of one, half-dozen of another.

IMHO, if he's leaving it alone (you mean someone actually does? ) it's a moot point.

Both are great bikes, but not really aimed at the same market niche. I guess you just need to decide which niche suits you best.

[BBurton]

Duhhh, really!!!   You don't have to reprogram fuel injection systems in most cases, they usually do a pretty good job of self adjusting to changing altitudes, climates and performance mods. "Especially suzuki fuel injection systems." I would also bet you that a DL can more than hang if not outperform a Bandit in the twisties. At least that is what the experts say in the mags  and guys who own them that I talk to at bike night.

[PeteSC]

Sorry, Snofrog, I didn't see your replies mixed in with the quote of the original message.

[Red01]

I guess they make Power Commanders for the DL for no reason then?

I'm sure the DL will do just fine in the twisties, but I thought he was more worried about keeping up with sportbikes in the straightaways - and I'm sure the B12 will do that job better.

[Drumbeater]

RED01;

Yes, you know how someone comes out of a sweeping curb then powers out through a straight?  I just didn't want to be caught short.  I'm sure the Bandit would keep up pretty good either way.

Part of my delima is also price.  A used Bandit is under 5 grand... but I can't find used VStroms and they are over 8 grand new.

What would be a fair price for a used, 02 Bandit fairly stock?

I'm talking to a local guy who has one in blue for sale.  He wants 5 grand.

[PeteSC]

5 grand may not be too bad, depending on the mileage.
  Check the VIN number to make sure it's not one of the bikes with the bad pistons.
http://forums.banditalley.net/viewtopic.php?t=276
  FWIW, if you're willing to drive a bit, you can usually find a leftover, NEW, B12 somewhere, sometimes as low as 6000, or a bit under.

     Do a search on Cycletrader............

[scooter trash]

Drumbeater, I own a 96 FXSTS and bought a Bandit this past Feb. I love it. It is 180 out of what you are used to riding. It is one fun ride. I will keep the Springer for Saturday night bar runs (it is heavily customized) and Ride the Bandit to and from work, bicycle race duty and on Sundays through the countryside.
 I love my Bandit, I vote Bandit !!