Define "Jack Up Kit"

[Red01]

2005B12S:
It is any kit that raises rear ride height , usually 35mm, by altering the rear linkage. By raising the rear you can quicken the steering due to the reduction in trail. Personally, I don't see the need to raise the rear, it just makes the bike look goofy with the a$$ end hanging up in the air.

A slight drop in the triples, 10mm is ideal, will also quicken the steering without raising the rear. So will going with a slightly shorter profile front tire, a 120/65 for example.

Raising the rear to gain ground clearance on the B12 should not be an issue on the street, if you are dragging suspension/chasis parts on street tires you should probably be riding a GSXR 750 instead.

Ride On, Ed.

Given the choice to quicken steering for the street, where there are road hazards like potholes, speedbumps and such, I prefer to raise the tail and gain a little more ground clearance than drop the triples and loose some, but the same handling result can be obtained either way, it's just a matter of preference. Dropping the front is probably the easier & cheaper way to go though. It would also give you a little lower CG... but it will make it easier for the header collector to foul on obstales in the road.

I had shorter dogbones (35mm lift) on my B12 for a while, but when I went to the Busa shock, I went back to the stock ones since the Busa shock does some lifting (~30mm) on its own since it's longer than the stock shock. With the shorter bones the back tire came VERY close to contacting the ground on the centerstand, in fact, if the surface was dirty, the tire might make contact. With the Busa shock, the tire has ~0.20" clearance on the c'stand.

[2005B12S]

Raising the rear is not going to give a measurable increase of clearance at the front of the bike. Only raising the front is gonna achieve that. Sure you are changing the angle, but you are not realistically gaining any more clearance at the front. BTW, I was not aware that the Bandit had any clearance issues on the street. I ride pretty hard and have never had any problems.

If I was concerned about fouling the bike on potholes or road debris, I think I would choose a different path to ride on as I don't think a 35mm lift on the rear is gonna help with any major obstacles.

Youre right, a drop in the triples is easier and in fact makes more sense. Coupled with some nice suspension upgrades that most folks agree are  needed, the B12 can be made to steer much quicker with having its a$$ stuck up in the air.

I plan to run a 120/65 Power up front next and will update if any adverse handling issues come up after its installed.

Ride On, Ed.

[Red01]

2005B12S:
Raising the rear is not going to give a measurable increase of clearance at the front of the bike. Only raising the front is gonna achieve that.

If only raising the front is going to give you a measureable increase of clearance at the front of the bike, then lowering it in the front will give a measurable decrease, right?
By raising the rear instead of lowering the front, you are avoiding that. While you may not get much of a raise up front, at least you're not loosing anything.

I guess we just have bigger speed bumps around here. I've seen a Bandit altered like yours drag its collector over a speed bump that I cleared (and I outweighed the other rider by 75-100 lbs). You don't have to be riding around at 9/10's to appreaciate ground clearance under the center of the bike. Casper Milktoast on his commute can appreciate it. Maybe down there in the Big D you don't ever have surprises in the road from damage caused over the winter, but in mountain states, frost heaves and other winter damage occur. The road that was so smooth and beautiful to ride last year can give you surprises the first time you ride down it this year. When you have summer down there, we have a season up here called "road construction" - so you may have to endure a mile of two of no pavement while you're connecting the twisties together. While there's no pavement, the road is not especially smooth, especailly when the pavement stops/starts. You're not likely to be riding fast thru here on a bike like a B12 or sportier, but the clearance can be a nice little extra to have.

It's all in what you want and what suits your needs.

[stormi]

Are you a professional photog or just a very able hobbyist?

You are the second Canadian to complain about rain this weekend.  Not a very compelling complaint as the lower 48 are either on fire or simply drying up and blowing away.

I would have to say "High seated amateur".  I am being pushed to go pro from a few sources, and would likely do so if I could find the time to do so.  Reno projects and the need to pay for them keeps getting in the way.    I suspect that I will be giving up my "computer crap" around January ( Our bills will drop significantly when the lease on my truck is up and I turn it in and just pick up a beater for puttering about in the winter.), and be able to spend some time concentrating on the photography more then.  

I dunno if I would consider that complaining.  Me hollering "Enough already!" at 2am after the majority of the day, and most of the evening hours were occupied with rain might have been.    This week looks like it might be pretty good though.  Temps in the high teens (Celcius wise), so around 65 degrees most of the week.  Warm enough to wear shorts, mow the lawn and weed the garden and be comfortable, but not too hot to ride.

Actually, you'll find the same in southern Alberta more often than not.  I remember about 2 yrs ago, pretty much the entire crowsnest pass was on fire, and we were deluged with rain up here.  Farmers were complaining here that their crops were drowning, and the farmers in the south were complaining that they were burning.  (personally, I thought the farmers in the south had a better reason to complain.)

[2005B12S]

If only raising the front is going to give you a measureable increase of clearance at the front of the bike, then lowering it in the front will give a measurable decrease, right?


I've seen a Bandit altered like yours

Hopefully it did not take too long to come to that first conclusion.

BTW, how do you know how his Bandit was altered. Or mine for that matter. How much drop was he running and how was the suspension set up? How much preload or sag was he running? What about springs?  

We are only talking 10mm, and again I was not aware of a Bandit ground clearance problem to begin with. .

I believe about 50% of the stuff I read and mostly rely on my own personal experiences to create a knowledge base that I use to form my own opinions.

I have experimented with various degrees of front end drop on my B12 and have determined that 10mm is best overall. I have experienced no ground clearance issues at any time. We have shopping malls here in Dallas, speed bumps are not a problem. BTW, that is all firsthand knowledge.

As far as winter mountain roads, you have got me there.

[Sven]

I would have to say "High seated amateur"...the farmers in the south had a better reason to complain.)

OK, that quote edit makes no sense when you read it, but just to summarize that I enjoyed the personal perspectives.

[Red01]

Hopefully it did not take too long to come to that first conclusion.

No, not long at all. It was why I chose to lift the back rather than lower the front in the first place.

BTW, how do you know how his Bandit was altered. Or mine for that matter. How much drop was he running and how was the suspension set up? How much preload or sag was he running? What about springs?

OK, I don't know how much you're running... but the point I was trying to make is this persons bike is set up similar to mine, the main difference at the time being mine had a tail lift, and they had dropped the triples to gain the same effect. Both of use were running stock suspesion front and rear at the time. Since the bike was set up by her husband, and he's not a newby when it comes to bikes, I assume he had her preload and sag set for her correctly, but I don't know exactly what her setting were. And her bike was a 1G B6, which doesn't have quite as good a shock as the 2G B12... but I still outweigh her by a large amount, which should more than make up for the difference in the two shocks.

One other reason I preferred the tail lift was it reduced the leverage on the stock shock, which has the effect of making it a little stiffer, which is another bonus for someone still running a stock shock. (And this was a consideration a long time ago, too... I just forgot to mention it yesterday.)

[chupacabra]

I used to drag my collector if I went slow over speed bumps in the parking lot with stock parts at stock setup, all stock but the rear shock preload at max setting. Now I have a B12 shock, preload set about in the middle and forks dropped about 1 inch. No more bumping the collector at all. So I'm thinking that stock B6 shock spring was just about strong enough to just bearly make the bike sit good in the showroom, not for riding.

[2005B12S]

Since the bike was set up by her husband, and he's not a newby when it comes to bikes, I assume he had her preload and sag set for her correctly, but I don't know exactly what her setting were. And her bike was a 1G B6,

That was exactly my point, your comment about a bike "set up like mine" was pure assumption and an invalid comparison at best (B12 to B6). I especially liked the comparison between rider weight difference and shock varation from B12 to B6 - thats some real guesswork.

You obviously have no idea how a properly set up B12 with a slight drop in the triples is gonna handle (or how much clearance it has) because you have no personal experience with that setup. Enough said.

Notice I did not make any comments on handling with a rear lift (either a taller shock or a jack up kit), nor will I make any assumptions regarding this. I have no first hand experience with either setup. I simply said they look goofy with the a$$ end stuck up in the air and that there was a better alternative to quicken steering (IMHO).

To each his own, Ed.

[2005B12S]

I used to drag my collector if I went slow over speed bumps in the parking lot with stock parts at stock setup, all stock but the rear shock preload at max setting. Now I have a B12 shock, preload set about in the middle and forks dropped about 1 inch. No more bumping the collector at all. So I'm thinking that stock B6 shock spring was just about strong enough to just bearly make the bike sit good in the showroom, not for riding.

Wow,

a 1 inch drop, B12 shock, and a 120/60 front tire with no dragging. Now thats real info.

BTW, nice B6.

Ride On, Ed.

[Bobcat]

That was exactly my point, your comment about a bike "set up like mine" was pure assumption and an invalid comparison at best (B12 to B6). I especially liked the comparison between rider weight difference and shock varation from B12 to B6 - thats some real guesswork.

You obviously have no idea how a properly set up B12 with a slight drop in the triples is gonna handle (or how much clearance it has) because you have no personal experience with that setup. Enough said.

Notice I did not make any comments on handling with a rear lift (either a taller shock or a jack up kit), nor will I make any assumptions regarding this. I have no first hand experience with either setup. I simply said they look goofy with the a$$ end stuck up in the air and that there was a better alternative to quicken steering (IMHO).

To each his own, Ed.

Well Ed, I can speak from personal experience. The clearance on the B12 with stock suspension can leave something to be desired, especially on crappy pavement. There were times when I would drag a peg in tight corners, especially if the bike became unsettled mid-corner. Raising the rear fixes that issue. Dropping the front doesn't. So, if you like a "sporting pace," lowering the front is not a better alternative. If you ride a slower pace, drop the front so the collector sits on the ground for all I care. As far as the bike looking goofy, you're welcome to your opinion. I guess I'm into function over form.

And Paul, I don't think you weighed that much more than her, frankly.

[2005B12S]

Well Ed, I can speak from personal experience. The clearance on the B12 with stock suspension can leave something to be desired, especially on crappy pavement. There were times when I would drag a peg in tight corners, especially if the bike became unsettled mid-corner. Raising the rear fixes that issue. Dropping the front doesn't. So, if you like a "sporting pace," lowering the front is not a better alternative. If you ride a slower pace, drop the front so the collector sits on the ground for all I care. As far as the bike looking goofy, you're welcome to your opinion. I guess I'm into function over form.

And Paul, I don't think you weighed that much more than her, frankly.

Well if you would have taken the time to get the full story you would see that "my setup" is very far from stock.

I'll clue you in:
Race Tech 1.0 springs in the front w/Gold Valves (sag at 30mm). 7.5 wt oil set 120mm from top (professionally done) - 10mm drop in triples
Works Performance rear shock w/reservoir (sag at 30mm) set up for 210 lb rider

I did not like the comment about another bike "set up like mine" and its apparent lack of ground clearance. It turned out to be an apparently stock B6 and an invalid comparison at best. That statement was made for shock value and when called on it, the truth became apparent.

Everyone knows that stock suspension componentss on most "bargin" bikes like the Bandit are sorely lacking, thats why the aftermarket companies are in business. I would not advise dropping the suspension on a totally stock Bandit, what exactly would be the point?

Maybe I'm way off base, but when you set up a bike properly with premium suspension components designed for your machine, raising the rear is totally unnessary and furthermore, a small drop in the front- 10mm for example- does a wonderful job of safely quickening up steering. If anyone does not understand that, I cannot help.

And you are right about opinions, the difference is that some are more informed than others.

[Bobcat]

Wait, I guess I'm a little confused. I thought we were talking ways to quicken the steering on a bike with stock suspension, Ed. Changing the geometry on your bike is going to yield much different results than it would with a stock machine. Apples and oranges.

I guess you're not immune to a little invalid comparison now and then, either, eh?