I stand corrected that my comments about both bikes are a bit over the top, but when you get the big picture of what they have the nerve to charge for those bikes which compared to any comparable Japanese bike, I take it as a personal insult to my intelligence and can almost hear the corporate manufactures of those bikes laughing hysterically at there investment to profit margin, "America people, they are so, how do you say? fashion gullible! Haaaaa-Haaaaa...Breath....Haaaaa-Ha!"