Frustration trying to get a part.

[Red01]

As you may recall, I purchased one of those Chinese knock-off Hondas (a Panterra) from the local PEP Boys as a Christmas gift for my grandkids just before last Christmas. The kids only get to ride it when they come to visit, so it hasn't been racking up the miles. In fact, it hasn't even hit reserve on its first tank of gas yet.

A couple of weekends ago, while I was at work, one of my grandkids had come over and was riding the bike. I got a call from my wife that it had died and they couldn't restart it. I gave my daughter's boyfriend a list of things to check, but he isn't real mechanically inclined and didn't do much therefore didn't have any success getting it to go. I did a little troubleshooting the next day. First I found the spark plug was cross-threaded, so I called the boyfriend and asked if he had pulled the plug. He said he hadn't. Then I found the ignition black box had come unplugged. According to the service manual (a free download from the importer), if the box comes unlugged with the engine running it will damage the unit.

I put off getting (or trying to get) a new unit until today. I went into PEP Boys to see if I could order it from them. The counter guy says, "You'll have to contact the manufacturer for parts."
  You are a parts store and you can't order parts for the machines you sell? Then I find out Panterra (which is really an importer, not a manufacturer) has gone out of business. PEP Boys still sells the exact same bike with someone elses stickers (Baja Motorsports) on the same colored bodywork. So I call Baja Motorsports. They don't have the part. They are currently working with Panterra or China to get the parts for these, but don't have what I need. They do give me a couple other places to check, but they aren't answering phones on a Saturday.

I'm more than a little PO'd by this run-around! So today, I drop PEP Boys Customer Service a line. We'll see what they say and I'll keep you posted.

Here's what I sent Manny, Moe & Jack:

Last December I purchased a Panterra 49 dirt bike from your store for my grand-daughter. It suffered from a CDI unit failure due to the plug not being fully secured prior to delivery. I understand the bike only had a 30-day warranty, but please know that this machine has only been riden by her when she visits and hadn't even gone through a full tank of gas.

While I was troubleshooting why the bike quit running, I also discovered the spark plug was installed cross-threaded. The thing that really bugs me most - and prompted this message - is when I go into PEP Boys to get a replacement part, I'm told I have to contact the manufacturer/importer. You are a PARTS store! You should be able to assist your customers in getting parts for the machines you sell! It only seems reasonable that someone who sells motor vehicles should also sell parts for same. I can't imagine going into a car dealership and being told I have to contact the manufacturer or importer for parts.

To add further problems to this ordeal, I find out that Panterra is no longer in business! Since the Baja Motorsports 49cc Dirt Runner you now carry looks identical to my Panterra 49, I contacted them to see if I can get a replacement CDI - but they don't have one! So now I have a useless motorcycle sitting in my garage. I would really appreciate some help in finding the part to make it run again.

[PitterB4]

    Boy, that is frustrating, Paul!

Aren't those things remanufactured Hondas of some sort.  Maybe try Honda???

[PeteSC]

Ugh.

 I suspect a couple of factories are cranking these things out in China, and sticking different labels/stickers on them for importers.
  Are there any markings on the engine, Paul?
  Maybe if you can identify who actually made the dang thing, you could cross source some parts.
  If you're lucky...there may even be some sort of board on the net dealing with this stuff!
 Gawd knows, every gas station and parts store in town sells them......

  One good thing, though, you're one of the few people who buy these things that will be able to get it running, again!
  (Check the local dump for parts bikes!)
   Glad this happened, though....I think the 125cc version was down to $699 locally.  Had no idea what I'd do with it....but I looked!



Dredging the 'net.......

http://www.thumpertalk.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-186897.html

http://mopedworld.com/partform.htm
This place lists parts for a lot of off the wall scooters/bikes

[txbanditrydr]

A friend of mine (yes, I have one or two   ) bought his son a gas scooter from PrEP-eration H Boys.....  they made him read the fine print on the sales slip citing they will not be responsible for ANY warranty claims or returns.   In just 2 hours of use the front wheel bearings were destroyed and it took 6 weeks to get new ones.  

Too bad cuz I sorta like those little roadracer bikes - though they have an irritating whine to them.

[PitterB4]

  (Check the local dump for parts bikes!)
 

That's a great idea!

[Red01]

The hard engine parts appear to be Honda copies, but from looking at the microfiche for the XR50, the ignition module is similar, but has a different style connector. It's also $86.17 @ Ron Ayers (another $32.60 to get the wire harness for the mating connector). I'm hoping a Chinese copy will be a bit cheaper.

I'll try the two numbers Baja Motorsports gave me tomorrow to see if I get any luck.

As for markings on the engine, the only marking on it is Panterra on one of the side cases.

[PeteSC]

Maybe a BANDIT 400 black box would work?
   
  Any chance you have an electronics buddy who can look at the box?
  Maybe it's something obvious that's fried?

[Red01]

Ha ha! You funny guy, Pete!  

The B4 box is probably ~5-10 times bigger than this tiny little unit, which is about 1" x 1" x 2" - it is barely wider than the four wire connector that plugs into it. It appears to be resin filled, so would probably be near impossibly to get into.

If I wasn't such an honest guy, I'd take my old one to PEP Boys and swap it for one off of their new bikes sitting outside the store. It's easy enough to get to without taking the bike apart.

[b4cruz]

have you tried a scooter store?
i have one in orange, CA that sells parts for chinese scooters
http://www.scootershop.com/

maybe you can email these guys for some ideas

[tacoman]

I'm wondering how much longer these large chain stores are going to carry these.  If enough people get PO'd they'll probably drop them.  I see these bikes on ebay and all the sellers make a replacement parts disclaimer (Must be ordered from the factory).  They should sell them in pairs so you have a parts bike.

[Red01]

OK, I got a reply form them today:

FROM: CustServ@PepBoys.com
SUBJECT: CUSTOMER COMMENT Paul

Dear Paul:

I want to take this time to apologize for any inconvenience. Unfortunately, Pep Boys do not carry parts for the Panterra Dirt Bike. Since the bike is no longer under warranty, please contact APP/ Nikota at 800-964-5682 to order parts. If you need further assistance, please feel free to contact me.


Thank you,
Maykeline Malave
Internet Satisfaction Coordinator

So, I called APP and after negotiating touchtone hell and 5 minutes on hold I got to talk to a human. APP had the part in stock. It was only $25 and another $7.69 to get it to my mailbox. Should be here in two weeks. A little slow, I thought. Everything I've ordered for my Bandit has arrived in a week or less - except the undertray I ordered from Germany. It didn't take it much more than two weeks to get here.

You can bet the plug will be zip-tied in place on this one so it will never come unplugged unless I want it to!

I did send Maykeline a response:

Thank you for the contact number! :) That was a great help! APP/Nikota has the part in stock. Shipping is a little slow at two weeks though, but that isn't your fault. Just so you know, when I order parts for my Suzuki on-line or by phone it arrives in under a week without paying for expidited shipping, even when the part has come from the opposite coast or even in one case, the United Kingdom!

I still feel you sould better support the products you sell. This will certainly be a consideration when my grand-daughter is ready to move up to a bigger cycle.

Thanks again,
Paul W
777 Preflight & Delivery Quality Assurance
Airworthiness Inspector

[Slider]

As you may recall, I purchased one of those Chinese knock-off Hondas (a Panterra) from the local PEP Boys as a Christmas gift for my grandkids just before last Christmas. The kids only get to ride it when they come to visit, so it hasn't been racking up the miles. In fact, it hasn't even hit reserve on its first tank of gas yet.

A couple of weekends ago, while I was at work, one of my grandkids had come over and was riding the bike. I got a call from my wife that it had died and they couldn't restart it. I gave my daughter's boyfriend a list of things to check, but he isn't real mechanically inclined and didn't do much therefore didn't have any success getting it to go. I did a little troubleshooting the next day. First I found the spark plug was cross-threaded, so I called the boyfriend and asked if he had pulled the plug. He said he hadn't. Then I found the ignition black box had come unplugged. According to the service manual (a free download from the importer), if the box comes unlugged with the engine running it will damage the unit.

I put off getting (or trying to get) a new unit until today. I went into PEP Boys to see if I could order it from them. The counter guy says, "You'll have to contact the manufacturer for parts."
  You are a parts store and you can't order parts for the machines you sell? Then I find out Panterra (which is really an importer, not a manufacturer) has gone out of business. PEP Boys still sells the exact same bike with someone elses stickers (Baja Motorsports) on the same colored bodywork. So I call Baja Motorsports. They don't have the part. They are currently working with Panterra or China to get the parts for these, but don't have what I need. They do give me a couple other places to check, but they aren't answering phones on a Saturday.

I'm more than a little PO'd by this run-around! So today, I drop PEP Boys Customer Service a line. We'll see what they say and I'll keep you posted.

Here's what I sent Manny, Moe & Jack:

Last December I purchased a Panterra 49 dirt bike from your store for my grand-daughter. It suffered from a CDI unit failure due to the plug not being fully secured prior to delivery. I understand the bike only had a 30-day warranty, but please know that this machine has only been riden by her when she visits and hadn't even gone through a full tank of gas.

While I was troubleshooting why the bike quit running, I also discovered the spark plug was installed cross-threaded. The thing that really bugs me most - and prompted this message - is when I go into PEP Boys to get a replacement part, I'm told I have to contact the manufacturer/importer. You are a PARTS store! You should be able to assist your customers in getting parts for the machines you sell! It only seems reasonable that someone who sells motor vehicles should also sell parts for same. I can't imagine going into a car dealership and being told I have to contact the manufacturer or importer for parts.

To add further problems to this ordeal, I find out that Panterra is no longer in business! Since the Baja Motorsports 49cc Dirt Runner you now carry looks identical to my Panterra 49, I contacted them to see if I can get a replacement CDI - but they don't have one! So now I have a useless motorcycle sitting in my garage. I would really appreciate some help in finding the part to make it run again.

With humble appolgies to Red01. I don't mean to rain on your parade. I thought a few words might be worth it here.

Knock offs are just that... pirate. It is one thing to copy a CD, but something else for such a complicated object. Business Week ran a large section on this, including 125cc Hondas. China is now formost in the world in reverse engineering complicated consumer stuff.  Cheap to do = no engineering costs, no real warranties, no advertising, parts support etc. They import them with legitimate looking badging thu customs and then peel off the overlaid Honda/? labels to reveal the bogus name of the hour.  

Legal copyright stuff aside, the consumer problem they saw in this sort of stuff was that the pirate's attention to metalurgy, = good steel/alloys and heat treatment was very low.

Good luck with this. It still may work out for the kids.

Mike

[PeteSC]

Have you noticed all the JUNK Pep boys is trying to sell?
  The aisles are packed with pyramids of air compressors, drills, fans, home appliances.....

    Glad you got your part, Paul.  2 weeks isn't cool, but you'll have it.....

  Does anybody remember or miss the old Western Auto stores?
  They sold a little bit of everything, but it wasn't 'junk'..........

[PitterB4]

Does anybody remember or miss the old Western Auto stores?
  They sold a little bit of everything, but it wasn't 'junk'..........

Western Auto is still around, I believe.  I've never been in it but I get flyers to the one in the next town South of me - Rising Sun, MD.

[Red01]

With humble appolgies to Red01. I don't mean to rain on your parade. I thought a few words might be worth it here.

Knock offs are just that... pirate. It is one thing to copy a CD, but something else for such a complicated object. Business Week ran a large section on this, including 125cc Hondas. China is now formost in the world in reverse engineering complicated consumer stuff.  Cheap to do = no engineering costs, no real warranties, no advertising, parts support etc. They import them with legitimate looking badging thu customs and then peel off the overlaid Honda/? labels to reveal the bogus name of the hour.  

Legal copyright stuff aside, the consumer problem they saw in this sort of stuff was that the pirate's attention to metalurgy, = good steel/alloys and heat treatment was very low.

Good luck with this. It still may work out for the kids.

Mike

No worries, Mike... it's a life lesson. I know about illegal Chinese copying, but from what I understood, the problem is more in their home market and not so much export where they would get in international hot water. I was also led to believe that these Honda copies are licensed - just as the Hyusong/Suzuki stuff from Korea, so I bought one on that faith. Looks like a mistake and my hope is our members and their friends can learn from it at my expense.

I'm pretty sure the only reason the ignition module failed was because the connector had never been fully seated so the lock would latch. I know I couldn't pull it off once I reconnected it unless I pressed in the hook latch. The cross-threaded plug was another irratating thing caused by a careless installer. (Perhaps a little kid or a political prisoner who doesn't care about workmanship?) Hopefully, it'll last longer now that these issues are solved.

FWIW - I just read an article in the Cycle World that arrived in my mailbox yesterday about bikes under $1000. Most of their examples were old, used bikes that took some extra cash beyond the purchase price to get street-worthy, but one was a new Chinese 200cc dual-sport... It ended up with several problem before they got very far with it. The headlight & tail light failed right away, then the speedo died, then the motor had a major failure. IIRC, it sucked a valve. Doesn't bode too well for them at all, does it?

I do know the chances of a second sale are drastically lower now that I've experienced two quality hiccups, a run around trying to source parts and what I read in CW last night!!!