Author Topic: Harley dealers less likely to get premium prices  (Read 3689 times)

Offline PeteSC

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Harley dealers less likely to get premium prices
« on: October 13, 2005, 11:06:04 AM »
A Softail at retail
Harley dealers less likely to get premium prices
By RICK BARRETT
rbarrett@journalsentinel.com
Posted: Oct. 12, 2005
Harley-Davidson motorcycle dealers who have charged premium prices for bikes may have to throttle back some as customers refuse to pay more than the manufacturer's suggested retail price.
The market for used Harleys has cooled off, too, company officials said Wednesday during a conference call that outlined third-quarter earnings.

For the three-month period that ended Sept. 25, Harley earnings rose nearly 16% to $265 million, or 96 cents per share, from $229 million or 77 cents per share a year ago. Revenue increased 10% to $1.43 billion, driven by double-digit sales growth in the United States, Europe and Japan.

It was the company's best quarter in a year, and the results beat Wall Street's expectations. After the announcement, Harley shares closed at $46.90, up $1.30.

"They keep plugging away. They're consistently solid," said Kevin Tynan, an Argus Research analyst in New York.

Sales of Harley-Davidson motorcycles increased 12% in both the U.S. and Europe and 13% in Japan. While sales remained strong, the company softened its long-term forecast for wholesale unit growth to a range of 5% to 9% annually, and annual earnings per share growth ranging from 11% to 17%.

Harley was able to "gracefully back away from what had been too high of a range," Robin Farley, a UBS Investment Research analyst, wrote in a note to clients. "That said, we maintain that the actual near-term growth outlook should be 5 percent or below."

For years, many Harley dealers have charged more than the manufacturer's suggested retail price for popular Harley models such as Softails and Road Kings. Some bikes have been in such short supply that if one customer walked away, another would pay a premium to avoid waiting months for a new motorcycle.

But those days may largely be gone, said Harley CEO Jim Ziemer.

"In our research, we have found that many potential riders refuse to pay over MSRP for a motorcycle. In fact, more than 80 percent of the people interested in owning a Harley-Davidson said that having to pay more than the MSRP for one of our motorcycles was a reason they would not buy one."

Some Harley shoppers no longer have the patience for waiting lists, either. That's especially true for first-time buyers, who make up about 50% of the company's customers, according to Ziemer.

"When they come into a dealership and you tell them they're going to be on a waiting list for a new bike, they will probably go someplace else," Ziemer said.

The premiums over the manufacturer's suggested retail price have come down an average of 2% to 3% a year, according to the company. Some of the change has been fueled by higher dealer inventories, which give buyers more pricing leverage.

"It really irritates customers" to pay too much, or to wait too long, for a new bike, Ziemer said.

But some Harley dealers might not be getting the message on customer service, according to a recent report from Piper Jaffray & Co., a Minneapolis investment firm.

"For the past decade, Harley-Davidson dealers have essentially been 'order takers,' making easy money opening a crate, overcharging customers, and rolling a motorcycle out the front door to rich urban bikers," the report notes.

"In our view, the forward Harley-Davidson story only works if dealers learn how to build a relationship with customers, sell them a motorcycle, and service them long-term. The good news is that bikers have few alternatives to Harley-Davidson motorcycles. The bad news is that too many dealers have a lot to learn about client relations and selling a motorcycle. While many sophisticated and very smart dealers are evident, we would not place our bet on the dealer base yet. The bottom line: We would not be surprised to see 2006-'07 as a period of no increase to motorcycle production."

Prices of used Harleys have been slipping roughly 3% a year, according to the company.

"Let me set the record straight about used Harley-Davidson motorcycle prices," Ziemer said. "It makes sense that if premiums on new Harley-Davidson motorcycle prices have come down over time, so have the prices on used Harley-Davidsons . . . But even with used bike prices, to have any product that's several years old selling for close to MSRP is almost unheard of. So we still have the best of both worlds."

The decline in used bike prices could be greater than 3%, according to Piper Jaffray.

"Our fall 2005 survey study reveals that a 2- to 3-year-old bike today sells for a 16 percent discount to MSRP. We view the rapid decline to used bike prices as a leading risk factor to the Harley-Davidson story and the removal of a catalyst toward a new bike purchase."

Bloomberg News contributed to this report.


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Offline 97RedBird

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Harley dealers less likely to get premium prices
« Reply #1 on: October 13, 2005, 11:22:59 AM »
I hadn't seen this news article.  Good find.

My uncle was on a waiting list and gave up after a year took his deposit back and bought a brand new Honda silver 1300 and loves it.  My uncle had the money to pay, but HD lost his business.  

The market has to get saturated with HD's, but wear and tear and wrecks keep the saturation at a min.
- Nathan
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Offline ray nielsen

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Harley dealers less likely to get premium prices
« Reply #2 on: October 13, 2005, 11:42:10 AM »
In Minneapolis and surrounds the price of many H-D models is below MSRP at dealers.  Sporsters sell for about $200 - $300 UNDER MSRP and V-rods are available at up to $ 5000 under, depending on which model.

I can't comment on other models as I don't know them well enough, but it appears we have too many dealers of most brands, H-D included, to support high prices.

I go to a lot of dealer shows and open houses and can report that H-D shops in this area offer poor customer contact and sales assistance, being mostly order takers.  Maybe that will change.  

Demo rides, once unheard of at a Harley dealership, are common on good weather days with most models available for a short ride.

I've tracked H-D ads for used bikes and they are suffering too, with many ads running for months before disappearing.  

I hope the artificial pricing is gone and while I don't have any interest in owning a Harley I certainly don't with them any bad thoughts.

Offline tacoman

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Harleys
« Reply #3 on: October 13, 2005, 02:06:36 PM »
I think the Harley "salad days" are past.  They've had a great run of selling bikes with 1940's technology for premium prices.  Look in the classifieds or Cycle Trader, they're packed with used Harleys.  Throw in the internet, increased competition (Victory, Triumph, the big 4 have nice cruisers, all the customs out there), and an aging client base. it will be interesting to see what they do, the Porsche engined VRod is no hot seller and thats their latest bike.

Offline Sven

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Harley dealers less likely to get premium prices
« Reply #4 on: October 13, 2005, 02:42:51 PM »
I saw this article elsewhere earlier this week, and was curious how HD's fortunes compared to other brands.  It's hard to complain about 12-13% growth in one year.  Overall profits would include all that HD logo'd stuff. A couple weekends ago at the airshow, there was a HD logo no matter which way I turned, but not so many bikes in the parking lot.

One thing I've noticed the past couple years is the number of HD ads on TV, even during prime-time, and print ads in almost any publication that would reach men, even Rolling Stone or Men's Health.  Unlike the other brands which advertise only in bike/car mags and on TV during sports programming.  Would Suzuki sell more Bandits in the US if they actually ADVERTISED them somewhere...anywhere?
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Offline KX5000

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Harley dealers less likely to get premium prices
« Reply #5 on: October 13, 2005, 08:30:11 PM »
Quote
The good news is that bikers have few alternatives to Harley-Davidson motorcycles.


HUH???
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Offline Red01

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Harley dealers less likely to get premium prices
« Reply #6 on: October 13, 2005, 08:38:07 PM »
Quote from: "KX5000"
Quote
The good news is that bikers have few alternatives to Harley-Davidson motorcycles.


HUH???


That's right... KTM & Aprilia haven't made V-twin a cruiser yet - and Ducati dropped theirs.

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Offline KX5000

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Harley dealers less likely to get premium prices
« Reply #7 on: October 13, 2005, 08:46:36 PM »
Oh, I see said the blind man as he picked up his hammer and saw.




My bandit could be just like a harley if I cut off the exhaust pipes and pull two plug wires and drain the brake fluid and leave all but 5 psi out of the tires.  But then I think I'd rather drive my cage!
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Offline jared1970

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Harley dealers less likely to get premium prices
« Reply #8 on: October 14, 2005, 03:20:19 AM »
It's yesterday's technology at tomorrow's prices.

It's funny, every time I ride past a bar, there's usually a line of Harleys sitting in the parking lot. Do you know why that is? Because it's more fun to sit in a bar than it is to ride a Harley.
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Offline WEINERDOGBONE

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Harley dealers less likely to get premium prices
« Reply #9 on: October 14, 2005, 05:42:24 PM »
I like some of the HD's. I might even consider buying a used one as a second bike for long rides. I've been watching the used Harley prices for a couple of years and I thought they were coming down.

I told my wife I would wait until all the posers got tired of their bikes and then I would buy a used Electra Glide or something similar. I'm only good for a couple of hours on the Bandit and I would like to have a rolling couch for trips.

Offline Sven

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Harley dealers less likely to get premium prices
« Reply #10 on: October 14, 2005, 05:51:47 PM »
Quote from: "WEINERDOGBONE"
I like some of the HD's. I might even consider buying a used one as a second bike for long rides.


The street rod looks good and looks like it has some zip to it.  I'd take a look at one if I were shopping.
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Offline PitterB4

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Harley dealers less likely to get premium prices
« Reply #11 on: October 14, 2005, 06:20:42 PM »
Oh boy... where's our resident Harley defender Scooter Trash?
Rob
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Offline KX5000

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Harley dealers less likely to get premium prices
« Reply #12 on: October 14, 2005, 08:15:27 PM »
Quote
Oh boy... where's our resident Harley defender Scooter Trash?


Maybe he's at the bar LOL
Just kidding scooter
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Offline Cargo7

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Harley dealers less likely to get premium prices
« Reply #13 on: October 15, 2005, 03:54:25 AM »
New Harleys have come down in price considerably in Canada over the past year or two. Harley had made a decision to keep pricing in USD and so the increase in the Loonie is having quite an impact. The paper is full of 2 year old bikes priced the same as new model dealer rides. Bit of a piss-off for those that bought in '03 but likely driving plenty of new sales north of the 49th.

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Offline Desolation Angel

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Harley dealers less likely to get premium prices
« Reply #14 on: October 15, 2005, 10:26:54 AM »
Here's my take on Harleys, not counting the V-Rod...

If you really like the old bikes, the bikes of yesteryear, how they looked, the kind of accessories they had, and so forth, then Harleys are for you.  Nothing wrong with that.  You want one of the bikes from the '30's, '40's, '50's, etc., but nice ones are hard to find, kick starting is a b!tch, really unreliable, and maybe parts are hard to come by.  You don't want to be a motorcycle restorer, but you want the "look" of the old bikes when they were NEW!  Harley is for you.

Change up the scenario a little bit...you like cars from the '30's, '40's, '50's, etc.  But you don't want to restore a rusted out hulk, you want one that's already been restored and is nice and shiney, but the restorers want an arm and a leg for 'em.  Along comes a company that makes, BRAND NEW, what is basically a 1930's vehicle.  Man, it's got cool paint, and hot mags, and shines like a Christmas tree!  You get your antique roadster look, but it has electric start...NO CRANKING!  And a warranty, and a service network.  Cool!  Think Packard/PT Cruiser.  There are other examples.  What about those new Mustangs?  Look lots like mid '60's Mustangs to me, eh?

Harleys look like the old, classic bikes and have a couple of super upgrades like electric starters!  And they are likely way more reliable than one from the '30's.

So, you get your cake and eat it, too.  Looks like the classics...but brand new and everything that means.

That's how I think lots of older Harley riders view them.

The younger guys?  They don't know anything about motorcycles, so they get sucked in with the Harley's are cool-Harleys are big-Harleys are custom-Harleys are AMERICAN MADE hype and all the cool branded gear and accessories.

So, you just like outdated classic looking cruisers?  Go for it!

You like really great bikes...don't. :grin: