having trouble getting insurance to pay street value on B400

[gtluke5.8]

in april i got in an accident with my bandit. collided with a car at about 30mph (his fault completely)
since then i've been fighting and fighting with his insurance company to pay me what the bike is worth (and for my riding gear and helmet)
they are trying to give me $938 for my bandit
its a 1992 with 6,850 miles on it
i also JUST put on brand new M1/M3 tires (from reading this site for hours and hours)
it was in flawless condition and 100% stock and factory till i put new tires on it this year.
i keep printing out ebay ads with bandits selling for over $2k and sending them to the insurance company. no luck

anyone know of a "professional" way to get a realistic value on the bike? looks like i'll be going to court on this. $938 is just a joke. but according to them KBB and NADA the bike is worthless. but i KNOW its a desirable machine and i could have got $2500 out of it. MINT really low milage 1992 can get that i think.

also, i still have this bike and i don't know what to do with it. i need to get rid of it but i don't know if i should part it or sell it as is or fix it and sell it.
it needs new front forks, some cosmetics, and a new clutch cover. i got a clutch cover off ebay, i have extra handlebars and blinkers. really all i need to make it drive okay again is the forks. all of the painted parts (red) came out okay exept some scrapes on the frame. but the bike would need some odds and ends to make it the way it was before the accident. radiator gaurd, gauges, footpegs, headlight, brackets... small stuff is slightly damaged but insurance SHOULD be responsible for this.

i'm in norther NJ if that helps.

and my other screen name gtluke won't log in. hmf

[Maniac]

Man, sorry to hear about the insurance problems. Sounds like typical crap, though. I hope you can get it straightened out. If you take the money, do they take the bike?

Sounds like you now have a perfect excuse to pick up an early GSXR front end with the USD forks to bolt onto your bike. Sometimes you can pick a complete unit up off ebay for a decent price, we're talking forks, wheel, double disk brakes, all controls and the clipons.  

[PitterB4]

Man - that sucks.  I'm gonna move this over to the General forum.  We have a couple property/casualty insurance experts on the board but they're B12/B6 riders.  Hopefully they'll see this and have some advice for you.

[Red01]

I don't think I'd do anything with the bike until the insurance issue is settled. If they're totalling it, it'll be their bike.
(You'll have an option to by back though.)

Tell them they have three options. Fix your bike, give you true market value, or replace it with another one in similar pre-crash condition.

While I've seem B4's for sale at $2K, I've also seen them for $1200-$1500, which I think is more realistic. $938 is too low though.

In the car world, there are professional appraisers you could go to for help. You might try contacting one and see if they do bikes - or know someone who does.

[Racerruss-ducati]

I am not sure if this will work, but just ask them to replace it with a bike of similar milage and condition.  

I had a similar situation with a car that was stolen several years ago, insurance would only pay what they determine to be the book value, and they tried to really low ball that.  After similar discussions to yours, I asked them to simply provide an identical car with similar milage and they said they would.  After a couple of weeks of them looking and me harrassing them when they didn't come through, they caved and ponied up another $2500 to match what the actual replacement value was.

Good luck and remember with insurance, you will get a lot further being nice, professional, curtious, calm, factual and persistant as hell.  Once you accept a payment of any kind from them, it is closed, so fight the urge to 'just get it over with'.

Good luck and stay firm (huh, huh, huh, he said firm) with your position!!!

[ant_129]

I don't know how accurate this is but MCNews.com values a 92 b4 for $1115.  
I couldn't imagine them going for $2500 even if it were in mint condition, but
you should get more than $938.  Here is the link mcnews.com.  Go to Used
bike values on the homepage and it  is under November 2005 part 2.

[jcmjrt]

$938 does sound low but $2500 sounds high. If you like the bike and would like to fix it up then you could negotiate for a little more money and keeping the bike. Then you'd have plenty of money to fix up the bike and make it even nicer than before. If it needs new forks then this might be a perfect time to go for a Katana or GSXR front end. Don't do anything to or with the bike until you settle. If the insurance company pays you for the bike then it's theirs to sell for scrap unless it's part of the deal that you keep it.

[ratbike05]

The advice so far is pretty much right on.  Paul gave the best 3 options.  Make them fix it, total it and give you market value or replace it with a similar bike.  First thing is don't do anything with the bike until the insurance is settled.  Make sure that you have your own set of pictures so that if you go to court you can plan your arguments using your own props and not the insurance company's.  You will need to continue to fight for what you deserve.  It really doesn't sound like they are too far away from offering you real value.  I'm sure the bike is truly valued to you at $2000 but that is emotional and personal economics.  I don't know what the actual value of the bike is but the other folks seem to have it pegged at about $1200.  You may find getting them to $1200 a lot easier than $2000.  They may also be playing hardball with you because they know the $2000 is way out of the park and they have a great chance of getting you to settle or having a court settle the matter much closer to their figure.  The good news, if you have to go to court, is that it is small claims and can be done cheaply without a lawyer.  If you get them to settle for let's say the $1200 then you could, in most cases buy the bike back and fix it with the balance of the money.  The downside to that is your bike will then have a salvage title and that is a whole other can of worms.  Hope everything works out for you.  You could maybe even negotiate and take the $1200 plus maybe your new tires with the rims.  Then you could put them on another bike and have an extra set of rims to put track tires on for track days.

[gtluke5.8]

thanks everyone.
i know the bike does't book value for much. but if you check ebay they keep selling for over $2,000
but i've never seen one with as low milage as mine has.
plus i JUST put a few hundred dollars worth of tires on it.

when they do finally pay me, i keep the bike and they don't touch the title.
i may just put a gsxr front end on it and stop riding it on the street around here. maybe pick up a trailer and go to some track days. this accident has really jaded me from riding on the street. some moron not looking makes me not be able to sleep at night because of so much back pain.

and let me tell you of the joys of new jersey auto insurance. i have to pay ALL the medical bills out of pocket. NJ motorcycle insurance carries no medical coverage. my auto insurance policy denies payment because they won't cover anything with less than 4 wheels. the guy that hit me is not responsible AT ALL for my medical bills because new jersey has "no fault" medical coverage. my personal medical coverage denies claim because it was an auto accident.
$35,000 down the tubes. yay
and it wasn't even my fault.
so you should all call your insurance carriers and make sure at least one of them will cover you if you get in a motorcycle accident. i stupidly assumed and i was not covered at all.

i really really really loved my bandit.

[wndrr]

New Jersey State Specifics For auto insurance.
 
Bodily Injury Liability
 Mandatory:  $15K/person, $30K/accident
 
Property Damage
 Mandatory:  $5K/accident
 
UM/UIM Mandatory:
●        Can not exceed BI limits

●        Includes UMPD

Tort
 Mandatory:

This is the Named Insured’s ability to choose their right to sue for “Pain and Suffering” if they are injured in an auto accident.  Available in two options:

Unlimited right to sue - This allows the NI to sue the at-fault party for “Pain & Suffering”, regardless of the types or severity of injuries sustained.

Limited right to sue - This allows the insured to sue for “Pain & Suffering” only if they sustain a permanent injury (listed below) AND the injury is determined to have a serious impact on your life

Loss of Body Part, Significant Disfigurement or Scaring, A Displaced Fracture, Permanent Injury, Death

Regardless of the choice made, it does not affect the injured party’s ability to sue for economic damages such as medical expenses and lost wages.
 
Personal Injury Protection
 Mandatory: $15K/person

“No-Fault” coverage provided for Named Insured and all relatives living in the household  in their vehicle, another vehicle or as a pedestrian regardless of who is at fault.

May choose either Medical Expense Only or Medical Expense PLUS Principle PIP Benefits

Medical Expense Only: pays for hospitals, doctors, other medical providers and necessary medical equipment.

May choose 15K, 50K, 75K 150K or 250K coverage

Principle PIP Benefits:

Income Continuation: $100 per week up to the limit selected on the policy for lost wages when unable to work due to an auto accident.

Essential Services: $12 per day up to $4,380 maximum to pay someone to perform necessary services normally performed by the insured such as cleaning house, doing laundry, lawn mowing, shoveling snow, etc.

Death Benefit: If the insured dies as a result from an auto accident, his or her family or estate will receive any benefits that have not already been collected under income continuation and essential services.

Funeral Expense: In addition to the death benefit, reasonable funeral expenses are covered up to $1,000.

Medical Expense Deductibles: $250, $500, $1,000, $2,000, $2,500

Co-Payment: 20% on medical expenses up to $5,000 after deductible has been met.

Medical Payments Mandatory: $1K/person

May increase this to $10K/person

This coverage protects anyone occupying your vehicle at the time of an accident. It protects you and your relatives who live with you, while in other vehicles or if struck as a pedestrian. This coverage pays for certain medical and funeral expenses from a motor vehicle accident, regardless of fault.
 
Note: this is for auto and not motorcycle insurance but some of the same Principles still apply. And all of what Jim "ratbike" states is correct.
But Ratbike romar and I only sell auto Insurance. And although I am licensed in NJ. Motorcycle insurance is a whole different animal. Hope this helps some what.

[Bantana]

Sorry about the accident. Why doesn't your health insurance cover your
medical expenses?

[Daytona]

Hello!! We all need to check!! Man does this insurance sh*t suck!!! I don't need to have insurance on my paid for bike here in Fl. But if i were to buy a policy it wouldn't cover me for squat!! Unless its in the $1200.00+ per year range.. They still can't define which 10k worth of med insurance gets you a RIDE WITH OUT A HELMET PASS... Most will find that your cycle policy will only cover damage if you go for the hefty premium policy with the outrageous payment! And don't even get hurt! You will wish it went the other way if your still around... Check the web! That is a joke! It gets more confusing the more you read..   http://www.verrill.com/moto/insurance_info.shtml     and then   http://personalinsure.about.com/od/rvmotorcycle/a/aa061604a.htm
 One saying get the highest coverage, and the others saying it won't cover squat... Has anyone got a handle on this? Anyone belong to a bike club that offer help on a policy that cuts thru the fog they put out! I have the green reptile or cave guy and have for decades, to get a policy for here in FL that will give me that warm fuzzy feeling is almost a grand.. I have major medical from work, and of course med on auto.. Any one??  

[SHREDDER]

Let me guess you have Rider Insurance?  They suck but unfortunately there are so few companies that offer motorcycle insurance in this state.

[gtluke5.8]

hi thanks guys.
those auto rules don't apply to the bike :(
i'm TRYING to get my auto insurance to take responsibility. there is a good chance that they will, but they might not.
and yup, its rider insurance, but i don't think any other place provides medical either.
my medical insurance won't cover it because it was an automobile accident. i also had very minimal coverage through my college.
hmf :\

[PitterB4]

NJ is just so awful from a regulatory standpoint.  No insurance companies want to do business there.  Even if you do, they put up roadblocks in your face every step along the way (at least on the health side of the insurance industry).  So, you end up with very little competition and policies that are so over-regulated that you just can't win.