Hey Baby, Are You Carrying any Insurance Tonight?

[Sven]

In the past, I remember some discussion about coverage. (Insurance coverage, not the thing the subject line appears to have raised.)  (OK, so yeah, I wrote "thing" and "raise" in the same sentance.  Move on!)

However, I am interested in your experiences with motorcycle insuance *service*...not in selling a policy, but with claims.  I am considering a little comparison shopping, and it looks like Nationwide, GEICO and Progressive are the most agressive advertisers for motorcycles.  I can shop for rates myself, but based on your experiences with claims, who would you do business with again...and who would you avoid like the plague?

(PS:  I get a kick out of seeing motorcycle-specific ads for GEICO during the NHL playoffs...it's on thing to advertise the bikes during sports, but the fact that they ancillary market is being seen as valuable makes me feel like riders have a louder voice moreso than ever.)

[CWO4GUNNER]

[Sven]

When it comes to vehicle insurance there are two schools of thought...

Oh, I already know what kind of coverage I want, I am asking about experiences with claims.  I continaually see ads for companies about how easy it is to set up a policy, and how helpful the the guy on the phone was, but really, *any* company can sell a policy.  The true test is how they treat the customer when they have to shell out.  So that's the kind of information I am looking for.

[JReviere]

Sven,

Your question is really appropriate. Insurance companies are in business to MAKE MONEY, all the money they can possibly make, AND THEY DON'T CARE WHO THEY SCREW IN THE PROCESS.    

The answer given about "full service" companies makes a good point.  If your state has a legislature sold out to the insurance industry to the degree you must legally carry insurance and you wish to "self insure" as I do, then go for the lowest cost "LIABILITY ONLY" coverage you can find.

I just went thru this exercise this week. PROGRESSIVE got the nod...

I'm a retired Military Officer so I insure everything else with USAA for they are the best in the industry for claims service. USAA is a "mutual company" owned by the members, all of whom must establish elegibility as Military Officers, Cadets in Officer Training, US Public Health Service officers, or Senior NCO's in the Military.  I've had personal communication with the director of Underwriting at USAA. He is completely and totally BIASED AGAINST MOTORCYCLES, so he rates bikes very high to discourage members from "riding murder cycles" as he puts it, but what he really does is drive business to other companies.

That's why I shop my inurance required by law every year. PROGRESSIVE is hard to beat, but occasionally they are under bid.    

As for claims management, I have no personal experience with filing claims for motorcycle insurance. I know friends who have had this sad experience, however. In general, what is said about the budget sellers is true. They will take you thru the wringer to collect a claim.

This is also true of Allstate, State Farm and some of the other major sellers. In dealing with them, a lot depends on your local agent, if you use one. I don't in general, however use a local agent.  

If you are most interested in claims handling, then might I suggest you establish a working relationship with a trustworthy local agent who will go to bat for you when you must file, if you must file, for a claim.  A local agent has clout with the insurance company because he/she has power to turn business to or from them.  

I don't buy a bike or a car unless I can pay for it in full, so I self insure for all but what it takes to appease Big Brother and his "Sin Tax Collectors" with their flashing lights and big pistols.  

If you have Military connexions and are really inerested in claims service par excellence, then USAA is the way to go for superb claims service, without a doubt, even with their NEGATIVE BIAS against motorcycles.

JReviere, Ph.D

[ZenMan]

When it comes to vehicle insurance there are two schools of thought...

Oh, I already know what kind of coverage I want, I am asking about experiences with claims.  I continaually see ads for companies about how easy it is to set up a policy, and how helpful the the guy on the phone was, but really, *any* company can sell a policy.  The true test is how they treat the customer when they have to shell out.  So that's the kind of information I am looking for.

Well, you know you're gonna get a big lecture from Mr. Know-It-All here... ironic, considering his sig-line: "A wise man wins favor, but a fool's tongue is his undoing He begins by talking nonsense and ends in mischief run mad" Koheleth  

Do you have American Family in your neck of the woods, Sven? When we had baseball-size hail here last year they replaced two windshields and a couple dings in the hoods... no hassles, no bullsh!t, and prompt payment.

Of course, that's auto-related, not motorcycle... but we have our bike insurance through the same agent. It's only $195 a year for the both of us on the Bandit, and I'm confident they would take care of us just as well if it was the motorcycle.

I do believe a lot depends on your local agent. Where we live, it's all neighbors and a handshake is still better than a contract. Seems like the more rural you are, the better quality of service you get.  

[Sven]

I don't buy a bike or a car unless I can pay for it in full, so I self insure...

I assume your use of  "self-insure" is a euphemism for  "carry no insurance" and are willing to pay for repair/replacement out of your own pocket.

You sound pretty negative about insurance companies in general.  The fact is, all businesses aim to make money, and all businesses have to decide how easy they will refund money in order to maintain a good relationship with customers.  The way customers are treated at the returns counter at K-Mart, Wal-Mart, Target or Macy's is driven by the same economic decisions that drive how well an insurance company handles claims.

I didn't intend to start a conversation about the value of insurance...that's a personal decision in which you weigh a series of risks and then decide how much money the risk is worth to you.   For example, you have to decide if you want to spend $14K on a motorcycle, and then decide how likely it is that it will be wrecked or stolen, and whether you'd rather pay an insurance premium *in case* this happens, or pay for a new bike *in case* this happens.  That's an individual decision that has to be made with regard to your vehicles, health, home, etc. etc.

Again, I *already know* what coverage I want to carry...and I already know how to comparison shop for price.  What I would like it to hear from people who actually had to make claims on *motorcycle* insurance.  (For example, I already know how my current insurer handles auto claims, but I am not sure that they would hanlde a motorcycle claim the same way.)

[CWO4GUNNER]

[Sven]

Well, you know you're gonna get a big lecture from Mr. Know-It-All here...

I have found value in some of Gunner's posts, and I think you know I enjoy the conversations you and I have had.  Yeah, Gunner's post was not responsive to my question, but I was able to reframe my question for myself.

I view the conversations at Bandit Alley as being similar to those a group of people sitting around a table in the break room might have...a combination of sharing experiences, expressing opinions, passing on a few bad jokes, and a little good-natured ribbing.

Your comment about doesn't "sound" good-natured.  Let's communicate with each other in the same way we would if we were face-to-face, with other people present.  (If you read my comments to Stomi about groups of people "policing" their own, you know I am entirely serious about this.)

As for the rest of your comments, thanks.  I don't know American Family at all, so I'll have to check into them.

I wanted to avoid influencing anyone's comments, but I'll go ahead and state that I've had GEICO for auto almost my entire life, and when I recompete, their rates are alwasy the best and the few claims I've had to make have been handled satisfactorily.

I also have carried GEICO for el bandido for 4 years, and while I have never had a claim. (The first year, I was not carrying comprehensive coverage, and that was the year that I could have used it).  But my renewal went *up* this year, and my communications with the CycleGuard office at GEICO have left my Spidey-sense tingling that they might not be as service oriented or as flexible as the auto department.  The people (women) I've talked to are friendly and seem to have experience as riders, but their's a scent in the air that makes me think I would not be as happy with their service if I had to make a claim.  Wish I could express it more firmly, but I think we've all experiences those subliminal warnings that end up being reliable.

[JReviere]

Well said, Sven.  

And to the critical observation about me made earlier, yes, I have a bad taste in the mouth about insurance companies. I see them essentially a purveyors of falsehood in that they tend in general to present themselves, when selling, as protectors and good friends.... "You are in good hands with Allstate..."  but when the chips are down, the ugly abounds.  

While out for my morning exercise fast paced walk, I was recalling a former friend (we've simply lost contact over the years) who is an independent insurance adjuster. His job is simple: GET THE COMPANY OUT FROM UNDER IT'S CONTRACTURAL OBLIGATION AS CHEAPLY AS POSSIBLE, ANY WAY POSSIBLE.

The entire direction of his work is NOT CUSTOMER ORIENTED  and not service oriented. It is all about saving money for the insurance company. In fact, his "take" on each claim is dependent upon how much money he can "save" the company.    

For me "self insure" is NOT an euphamism. It is a rational choice made in the face of the constant gamble of life. Only  idiots think in terms of "risk free" existance. "Risk Free" is an illusion, a fantasy. Just walking across the room to fetch a cup of hot tea is replete with risk... I could stumble (folk my age are known for stumbling, for sure) fall and break my neck..., that's RISK.    

"Self Insure" means I am aware of the risks involved and I accept responsibility for taking those risks and am willing to ask no one to share the potential costs incurred should one of those risks jump up and bite me.  

Insurance is nothing more than a SURE THING gamble for the insuring company. They can't lose, they just raise rates on the "protection" (nothing more than shared risk with other policy holders... the company has no risk) they sell.  

Mutually owned (that is owned by the policy holders) companies generally offer profit sharing and such, thus, in my view, if you must engage in risk sharing,  "Mutuals" are the best investment of your premium money.  

The sun is shining... Le Rouge Bandit calls... I'm going riding....

JReviere, Ph.D.
Lake Livingston, TX

[ZenMan]

Your comment about doesn't "sound" good-natured.  Let's communicate with each other in the same way we would if we were face-to-face, with other people present.  (If you read my comments to Stomi about groups of people "policing" their own, you know I am entirely serious about this.)

As for the rest of your comments, thanks.  I don't know American Family at all, so I'll have to check into them.

Admittedly it's sometimes difficult to tell the attitude behind the written word... I can assure you that although some of my comments do cut through the BS and might be misconstrued as negative, my intent is almost always good-natured and is the same playful way I would converse face-to-face. You just can't see my grin while I'm typing.  

American Family has always been fair to us, but as I said, I believe the agent you deal with has a lot to do with the service you receive, along with the area you're in. For what it's worth...  

[Sven]

Admittedly it's sometimes difficult to tell the attitude behind the written word... I can assure you that although some of my comments do cut through the BS and might be misconstrued as negative, my intent is almost always good-natured and is the same playful way I would converse face-to-face. You just can't see my grin while I'm typing.

Great!  It really *is* hard to "hear" the right "tone of voice" conveyed in email and BBS posts (and I use those terms because those two forms of communciation follow conventions closer to oral communications than the fomality of written communications, although business emails are slowly migrating to a form closer to that of memoranda), which is why it's all the more important to use terms that indicate respect for the speaker, even if you disagree with the words.  Or rely on those idiot emoticons!

[Sven]

And to the critical observation about me made earlier...

I agree with everything you just said, other than the use of the term "critical".  I don't think it critical to labeling behavior, but I'll admit many people are more sensative about that than I am.  In your second post, you own your opinions, and I respect that.

I do think the term self-insure obscures the truth that you have no insurance, but as an adult, have chosen to be responsible for what happens in your life.  (Can you tell I admire that?!)  Maybe "self-ensure" would be more descriptive!

As you say, the insurance industry relies on large numbers of people paying into a pool of money, with the goal of minimizing how much gets paid back OUT of that pool.  The level of honor and ethical standards a company displays in minimzing that payout is the heart of what I'm trying to get some feedback on.

Laugh if you must, but your mistrust of the conduct of the insurance industry and the way they package themselves is close to the way I feel about large businesses in general.  And that's spoken as a government careerist!

[Sven]

"Risk Free" is an illusion, a fantasy.

Every breath is a risk we take, but our blind faith is that we will take another.

Ride safely, Jake Rivers!  (We had a minor league hockey player named Jacques Lariviere, but it was easier for us to simply call him Jake Rivers.)

PS:  http://www.swbike.com/articles/quality/index.html  I Read Zen &...recently after several attempts in the past...really didn't care for it.  Looks like someone did!  My initial hopes this would turn out to be motorcycle-related porn were dashed, however.

[ZenMan]

Great read! Good job J.Reviere.  

I'm a big fan of Pirsig's book and read it many years ago, and several times since. My handle is taken from the title, as a matter of fact.  

Hey Sven... you got a problem with "idiot emoticons"?

     

[Sven]

Hey Sven... you got a problem with "idiot emoticons"?

Not really.  But too mnay people use them instead of actually communicating.  I get email *at work* that says something liike:

We'll meet at 9AM to work out the details, so we can give a response to the payroll folks.  :)