Korean tires?

[gyrogearcrunch]

Yeah.... click here for lots of feedback on Shinko.  We have a bunch of fans here.

Either the link to the Shinkos in your post ("here") doesn't work or my confuser is timing out looking for it.

Uh yeah...  That didn't work so well, did it?  Sorry!  (MUST stop drinking and posting!)

Rob: No foul. No offense taken. I do a fair amount of that meself (doing it now).

Up to now, I have experience only with OEM Bridgestones on my '99 Bandit and their first replacement with Metzler ME-Z4's. After hitting a curb hard evading a trucker who wanted my lane without looking first, I noticed a slight bend in the rear rim. I took the wheel to my favorite M/C shop (RTM in Tampa) to see if they could straighten it out. The mechanic immediately noticed that tire wear was under the wear bars (it was!). He offered to sell me his own used rear tire, A Shinko Advance 005 "tar" (southern for "tire"), that he had removed before attempting a 5,000 mile ride on his GPZ. The used tire came to $20, the rim job cost $45. Great workmanship as usual from Scott.

Now that I've gone on a 200-mile ride on the Shinko rear tire, here are the results:
- Profile identical to Me-Z4, Shinko Advance 005 is a 180-55x17, except no middle ridge. Same height.
- Handling is very different from Metzler. Feels twitchy. Instead of "falling into" a turn, I can now just "wish" the bike into a turn, just as if the steering geometry had been changed to make the front fork steeper. I have the rear adjusted to maximum stiffness - may back that off to change the handling.
- No experience with wet roads on the Shinko rear tire yet. The Metzler was superb in this department. Apparently, the Metzler's silica content has something to do with good adhesion, wet or dry.
- Have to wait and see what the Shinko delivers in the wet. So far, I don't really mind the twitchiness. It feels more like a race bike now, making avoidance maneuvers easier. The "heavy" feeling of the Metzler Z4 rear is gone.
- Have yet to check Shinko prices vs. Metzlers. Suspect a substantial difference. Expect trade-offs.

Herb

[China Greg]

3000-mile progress report on the Shinko Ravens-

- They are wearing very well; considerably less wear than on the BT-021's that I previously preferred. I think this is due to their harder compound.

- The front (at least) is TOO TALL. It seems like the tire height is wrong.. almost like an "80" instead of a "70".
This forced me to drop the triple-trees down on the fork tubes a few millimeters.. which helped some... but there's still that weird feeling like the rake has been raised. I didn't mind it at first, but it's consistently annoying, especially when trying for those ultra-smooth approaches to stoplights with hot blondes watching you from a blue Camaro. DAB!

- yes, they "fall in" to a corner very quickly, which took me a long time to become relaxed with... but no signs of dangerous slippage.

- I've decided that I don't like them in the rain.
Last weekend got stuck in upstate New York and had to ride two hours home in the rain. The tires were frighteningly SQUIRMY on wet concrete, in 70-mph, nasty traffic, dodging 8" deep, square-edged pot-holes.
The tires are also very sensitive to tar-snakes; everytime I just touch one, the bike lets me know it for sure.

- There's that WIGGLE. This was prominent when the tires were new... later subsided a little; but it's still there. Annoying, at best.

Since I still have plenty of wear left on them, they'll stay a while longer. I intend on using them up during a Spring ride south to Georgia; after that, I think i'll go for some Continental "Road Attacks".
Anyone use them before? they're pretty cheap on one particular website (motorcycleproshop.com).... $139 rear, $107 front. I liked Conti's years ago, before radials came along. Haven't used them since.

[rworm]

I put on a set of "street attacks" this weekend and put
about 300 miles on.Seem to be a great tire so far.

[PaulVS]

3000-mile progress report on the Shinko Ravens-

Careful to not compare apples to oranges...

The 009 Raven's are intended to be decent long-wear slabbers.... You could get up to 12,000 miles out of a set.  But as with any tire, higher mileage comes at an almost linear cost relative to handling & grip.

I know people who love the Pilot Powers, but then are cursing them when they're worn out with <2000 miles on 'em.

To me, the Shinko Advance 005 Sport-touring tire is the 'hot deal' on the tire market.  Or at least it was until their prices went up about $40 a set)

I've got over 3500 miles on mine, and the grip, wet or dry, is great, the handling exceeds my abilities... and they look like they'll be good for a couple more thousand.

I'd still buy them again without hesistation... but since they've gotten in the price ballpark of other tires, (they're still cheap) I may try something new next time... and Continentals are on the list.

[gyrogearcrunch]

3000-mile progress report on the Shinko Ravens-

- They are wearing very well; considerably less wear than on the BT-021's that I previously preferred. I think this is due to their harder compound.

- The front (at least) is TOO TALL. It seems like the tire height is wrong.. almost like an "80" instead of a "70".
This forced me to drop the triple-trees down on the fork tubes a few millimeters.. which helped some... but there's still that weird feeling like the rake has been raised. I didn't mind it at first, but it's consistently annoying, especially when trying for those ultra-smooth approaches to stoplights with hot blondes watching you from a blue Camaro. DAB!

- yes, they "fall in" to a corner very quickly, which took me a long time to become relaxed with... but no signs of dangerous slippage.



- I've decided that I don't like them in the rain.
Last weekend got stuck in upstate New York and had to ride two hours home in the rain. The tires were frighteningly SQUIRMY on wet concrete, in 70-mph, nasty traffic, dodging 8" deep, square-edged pot-holes.
The tires are also very sensitive to tar-snakes; everytime I just touch one, the bike lets me know it for sure.

- There's that WIGGLE. This was prominent when the tires were new... later subsided a little; but it's still there. Annoying, at best.

Since I still have plenty of wear left on them, they'll stay a while longer. I intend on using them up during a Spring ride south to Georgia; after that, I think i'll go for some Continental "Road Attacks".
Anyone use them before? they're pretty cheap on one particular website (motorcycleproshop.com).... $139 rear, $107 front. I liked Conti's years ago, before radials came along. Haven't used them since.

Thanks for the confirmation. I'm using an old Shinko on the rear wheel. The front is still the Metzler Z4, but I had exactly the same twitchiness at first that you mentioned with your new set of Shinkos. However, my bike's twitchiness has disappeared, replaced by a razor-sharp responsiveness that inspires great confidence. The heavy feel of the rear Metzler is gone, and the Shinko 05 rear has settled in nicely. I'm taking street corners at a much greater lean angle than before and loving the feeling. Can't say anything about handling in the wet - it's been dry here in FL.

Many moons ago, I got set of Contis for a 1980 Yamaha XS850SG. The bike wasn't exactly a road-burner, but it had enough power to put the tires through some paces. When I sold that bike in 2001, it still had the same Contis on it. If I remember correctly, that put about 12,000 on the Contis and they still looked good!

Recently, I received a set of Shinko 005 Advance tires from BikeBandit.com (called "sport touring") for the Bandit and am waiting for the front Metzler to wear out. The Shinkos cost $175.96. I was lucky to happen upon BikeBandit because no one else was cheaper or carried the Shinko brand. Delivery was very fast, and their customer service follow-up fantastic. So far, so good. More later.

Thanks for your reply - keep the news coming.

Herb

[China Greg]

I dunno... that "sharp handling" has left me feeling insecure, in the long-run.

I used to THROW the bike into corners with confidence, with the Bridgestone BT-021's. They really did me well...but had short wear-life. Probably why they felt so much more sticky.

I just don't like that big DROP when leaning over on the Shinkos, and I DID lower the bike in the head clamps to improve things.
I feel like the physics are too dependent on the sidewalls CATCHING you at the end of that big drop-off! They HAVE... so far.

In the rain, as i said, the things really had me gritting my teeth last weekend. Nothing LET GO or anything, but that front sure did feel twitchy on a wet concrete road anytime I encountered a parallel pavement line or crack.

Then, there's that mysterious WIGGLE.

Ah, well... enough complaining; they were a great price and I didn't expect Prime Rib. They're probably great tires if you're headed out on a very long highway drone and need a lot of wear.

I'm not done with them yet, (maybe only 1/3rd worn) and the season's just starting... so I'll post more later. Maybe I'll change my mind about them.

But I think I'll go for some Continental Road Attacks after the Shinko's finally do wear out. Never tried Conti radials.

[gyrogearcrunch]

3000-mile progress report on the Shinko Ravens-

Careful to not compare apples to oranges...

The 009 Raven's are intended to be decent long-wear slabbers.... You could get up to 12,000 miles out of a set.  But as with any tire, higher mileage comes at an almost linear cost relative to handling & grip.

I know people who love the Pilot Powers, but then are cursing them when they're worn out with <2000 miles on 'em.

To me, the Shinko Advance 005 Sport-touring tire is the 'hot deal' on the tire market.  Or at least it was until their prices went up about $40 a set)

I've got over 3500 miles on mine, and the grip, wet or dry, is great, the handling exceeds my abilities... and they look like they'll be good for a couple more thousand.

I'd still buy them again without hesistation... but since they've gotten in the price ballpark of other tires, (they're still cheap) I may try something new next time... and Continentals are on the list.

You're right about comparing apples and oranges. Checking back, I notice that we've been loosely comparing both the "Ravens" and the "Advance" Shinkos as if they were the same tire. They are definitely not. The 009 designation, standing for Ravens, and the 005 for the Advance give the game away. Only the 005 Advance tires should be considered for use on the Bandit 1200's, in my opinion, as these are rated at 168 mph and marketed as "sport-touring" tires. 

I actually prefer the Shinko 005 for handling reasons. You said it well when you stated that the Metzler Z4's feel "heavy" in the handling department. Since I'm only running a well-used Shinko 005 Advance on the rear, and a Metzler Z4 on the front, I noticed a definite change in the handling of my '99 bandit after installing a Shinko 005 on the rear, and it's a good change, as far as I'm concerned.

I started my riding career on an Italian bike in 1958, so I'm thoroughly spoiled when it comes to a bike's handling qualities, but I definitely prefer the feel of the rear Shinko 005 as compared to the rear Metzler Z4. I say this on thin evidence, I know, since I have not yet put both front and rear new Advance 005 Shinkos on the bike yet. In the meantime, we ought to get feedback on both the Raven 009's and the Advance 005's from their users. Let's see if there's a problem being caused by differences in profiles by taking accurate measurements of both tire types. It would also benefit us to know what the speed rating of the 009's is, according to sidewall data on the 009's.

Herb

[txbanditrydr]

Only the 005 Advance tires should be considered for use on the Bandit 1200's, in my opinion, as these are rated at 168 mph and marketed as "sport-touring" tires. 

FYI... the Raven's (009) are also rated to 168.  Whether the "sport" part of "sport-touring" should eliminated from the Raven's description is debatable there's no doubt the Raven is a good all-around tire choice for the Bandit given the cost.... in my opinion.

What I know about the 005 Advances is comparable mileage to a Pilot Power without the stickiness or handling qualities - certainly no where near "touring" mileage life and borderline "sport" performance.  I have personally run 3 of the Advances and 6+ of the Ravens - I prefer the Ravens for what they do and continue to run the Powers if I need a more sport oriented tire profile and compound. 

Note that I'm speaking solely about the rear tire.  I have run a couple of 005 Advance fronts and did not care for them at all compared to an Avon 45 or similar. 

[PaulVS]

I agree that tire preferences are a very individual thing.... really I was just making the point that too many people compare a grippy sport tire to a long-wearing touring tire, and vice-versa. 

Both have advantages & drawbacks... but obviously you give up grip for longevity, or longevity for grip... and never-the-twains-shall-meet.  It all depends on what characteristics are important to the specific individual.

Not really so much on this forum, but I see a lot of statements around the web like "Those Ravens are crap, get the Pilot Powers!"

Kinda like saying "That Chrysler mini-van is crap!  Get a Corvette!"

Oh yeah?  Can you get 7 people in a Corvette? 

[Dave 02 1200]

I really like the 009 Ravens on my Bandit 1200.

The profile gives a nice predictable turn-in and they give good grip wet or dry.

So far they seem to be wearing much better than other tires I have used.

When they do wear out, I will replace them with another set of the same Shinko 009 Ravens - but that might be a long time.

[China Greg]

I have the 009's. Great wear, it's true, but seemingly at a price:
 
- Abrupt "fall-in" due to the tire TALLNESS. Unsettling for me; some people apparently like it.
- Long warm-up period, due to the (relatively) hard compund.
- That damn oscillation in the front, which I now believe is due to some sort of production defect: out of round... out of skew... out of parallel... out of something. A light wiggle; not re-assuring when diving into a fast corner.

Ya get what ya pays fer.

Still; they're credible long-distance rubbers, if you're off to see the Other ocean.

[PaulVS]

I have the 009's. Great wear, it's true, but seemingly at a price:
 
- Abrupt "fall-in" due to the tire TALLNESS. Unsettling for me; some people apparently like it.
- Long warm-up period, due to the (relatively) hard compund.
- That damn oscillation in the front, which I now believe is due to some sort of production defect: out of round... out of skew... out of parallel... out of something. A light wiggle; not re-assuring when diving into a fast corner.

Ya get what ya pays fer.

Still; they're credible long-distance rubbers, if you're off to see the Other ocean.

I think you got a bad set of tires.... or your bike has some problems.

[China Greg]

Hmmm... myself and the local Zook mechanic checked the front wheel for out-of-true. It looked fine on the spin-balancer, and there hadn't been any signs of the Wiggle when the previous tires were on. The head bearings are relatively new and seem to be functioning properly... forks had Gold Valve kits installed a year ago and seem in fine condition.

When I look over the front-end of the bike at speed, I can see the tire's center-line oscillating back and forth slightly.
 
I think others on this forum have experienced some sort of oscillation as well with Shinkos, as I remember.

Anyone?

[PaulVS]

LOL... if you have VISIBLE oscillation with the center channel of your your tires... something (tires or suspension) is wrong.   

[China Greg]

yeah... no zhit. I'm quite sure I got a defective tire. Bought it off of EBay from a shop unloading them. Maybe he got hold of factory rejects. Dunno.