Author Topic: Limiting cc's to newbies  (Read 16630 times)

Offline solman

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Re: Limiting cc's to newbies
« Reply #15 on: December 17, 2007, 02:30:25 AM »
Quote
A little off topic, but starting out on a smaller bike is not necessarily a bad thing...you end up with a lifetime of upgrade possibilities.

So true, I started out riding a Nighthawk 450 and 250 dirtbike.  I personally am really glad I did.  I probably would've killed myself if I had started out with something with some real power.  I am one of those that learned by getting on and just going.  Looking back, probably wasn't the best way to learn.  Especially when I first rode in traffic and on the freeway.  Think about it, is it really a bad thing to make someone start out with something smaller?  I ain't talking about going to extremes like some does with 125cc/25 hp bikes.  I am talking about something like starting off with a 400-500cc bike.  Something fast enough to go out and have fun, but nothing with full out power.
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Offline smooth operator

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Re: Limiting cc's to newbies
« Reply #16 on: December 17, 2007, 08:07:13 AM »
  Ya know, I really think it would be a good idea,but I just don't like the giving the goverment the controll to tell me what I can and can not do. Just like the gun controll thing (but lets not go there,thats another topic) Putting a newb on a top of the line sport bike is a resipe for disaster. I don't think its the cc limit as much as the hp limit. You could have a886 or 1200 HD,doesn't mean its high performance.
  I have a dealer friend of mine, a potential customer came in with his dad. Young kid with no experience and Dad had a fat wallet. They tried steering him to bikes like the Kaw 650r,a good light,well handling motorcycle that would be a blast to ride on. But he was set that he had to have the fastest prduction bike out,and there was no telling him what he should start with. He knew in his mind that he had to have the fastest,baddest thing out there. The salesman involved my buddy that runs/owns the store. They told him that they would not sell him that motorcycle,they'd be happy to deal w/ a more appropreate bike. They snot nosed kid started hollering and carrying on so he made sure everyone in the store could here him. Yelling how he was going to tell everone not to come to Cycle City this and that.
When (Gary) told me of this, I shook his hand. I thought he did the right thing,saying you would have read about him in the paper befor too long.
  I do believe you should start smaller and work your way up. But I voted NO,because I don't want Big Brother to have more power over me. " Let freedoom reign", Dan

Offline speedwaymaniac

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Re: Limiting cc's to newbies
« Reply #17 on: December 17, 2007, 08:18:01 AM »
Well here in the UK we have a similar setup already in place

For new starters at the age of 16 you are limited to a capacity of 50cc-100cc. Over here that effectively means a machine that will not exceed 35mph due to further restrictions.

Once you turn 17 you are then entitled to ride a 125cc machine up to 14BHP. In order to ride any bike we have to complete a CBT (Compulsory Basic Training) which entails riding off-road (tarmac though) and then on road with a RosPA /DSA qualified instructor.

At 17 you are also entitled to take a test to become a fully fledged rider rather than riding with L plates avoiding Motorways and pillion passengers. This test is a slight step down from our Direct Access.
Basically you pass the test however if you happen to be under 21 you are then restricted to a 33BHP machine. However this can be any cc you so wish providing it can be restricted.

If you happen to be over 21 you are able to take the Direct Access course which allows the rider to pass the test and much like the states buy what ever you want.

Sadly im still buzzing around at 33BHP, the extra grunt would be lovely but in all honesty its not the end of the world without it, im still loving the ride and motorway (highway) jaunts are still reasonable enough. (especially for a 600)
JJ
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Offline smooth operator

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Re: Limiting cc's to newbies
« Reply #18 on: December 17, 2007, 09:11:32 AM »
  Damn,At the age of 16,I was runningTT and flattrack on a Bultaco Astro. On a 1/2 mile oval,I was going into the turns @ probably 80-90 mph. If I had to drop to 35 top speed on the street,I'd just stay off of it.(started at the age of 5)
  On the road,my first bike was a 400 Suz.ST,or I'd take out my Dad's Triumph. Both around 50 hp I quess.  Dan

Offline solman

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Re: Limiting cc's to newbies
« Reply #19 on: December 17, 2007, 01:19:21 PM »
The UK thing doesn't sound that unfair to an extent.  I ain't the biggest on adding more laws, but sometimes you have to ask yourself what would be the best.  We have basic laws to protect us from ourselves as from others.  Another way to look at it would to have the person applying to ride the size bike for the test.  All too often I have heard of people riding a small bike for the test and then jumping on a liter bike for riding.  Personally I would like to see mainly people under 21 be forced to start off with a smaller bike.
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Offline Bob Holland

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Re: Limiting cc's to newbies
« Reply #20 on: December 17, 2007, 01:39:10 PM »
I think we should limit everyone, reguardless of age, to under 100 HP, and 100 mph top speed, on a streetbike :bomb:
If I didn't have a Suzuki, I would have a Kawasaki

Offline Pidgey

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Re: Limiting cc's to newbies
« Reply #21 on: December 17, 2007, 03:32:16 PM »
I grew up in the U.K. and back then there were no displacement restrictions at all except from my old man.  :lol:   I remember wanting a 400/4 and he wouldn't co sign for the financing. Probably saved my butt, though. :grin:
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Offline solman

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Re: Limiting cc's to newbies
« Reply #22 on: December 17, 2007, 04:48:34 PM »
I think we should limit everyone, reguardless of age, to under 100 HP, and 100 mph top speed, on a streetbike :bomb:

Do I hear a can of worms opening up? :stickpoke:  I personally am trying to be realistic.  That would be like dearming the U.S.  Ain't going to happen...
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Offline Ronin

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Re: Limiting cc's to newbies
« Reply #23 on: December 17, 2007, 04:49:12 PM »
I voted to not limit cc's because the B12 is my first street bike.  However, I started riding when I was 8 on a 90cc dirt bike and it when up from there.  I even took the MSF class (at 25) before making the purchase so if there was a limit I might not be enjoying this sweet forum and the witty banter that is associated with it.  Oh yeah, and the awesome power that 1157cc's brings.

Matt

Offline TK421

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Re: Limiting cc's to newbies
« Reply #24 on: December 17, 2007, 05:43:00 PM »
I find myself ambivalent about this.  On one hand, I think new riders should definitely start out on smaller, less powerful machines.  I myself learned to ride on a 1976 Kawasaki KZ400 (yes, I'm dating myself :grin:.)  Smaller displacement bikes have gotten so fast and so powerful since then, and I've seen too many first-time buyers wad up their 600cc sport bikes because those bikes were way over their head.

On the other hand, I'm not in favor of the government protecting the stupid from themselves.    My standard for this type of regulation:  does the behavior affect other people negatively?  In this case I don't see how it does in any significant way.  I do like the idea of dealers voluntarily restricting sales to inexperienced riders.

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Offline Snubnose

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Re: Limiting cc's to newbies
« Reply #25 on: December 18, 2007, 12:22:22 AM »
Well here in the UK we have a similar setup already in place
For new starters at the age of 16 you are limited to a capacity of 50cc-100cc.

Being originally from the UK myself, I have, when this subject has arisen, given my opinion on this subject. Once even writing my premier about it during a particulary "brutal" summer of motorcycle related injuries and deaths a couple of years ago( under 20's). I addressed the merits of something akin to what speedwaymaniac had previously described as it makes alot of sense. Those who are mature and responsible enough should know the merits of earning the privilege of power, and, by the time afforded them by "restrictive riding", they'll have a TON of elementary skills and abilities procured through "real life" riding on something that wont totally leave them paralyzed if they hit the ground one day. The benefit of a mere sprained ankle or a little road rash can with a restricted bike far outweigh the perils of a "wheelchair accessible only" eventuality that is more likely to happen with an inexperienced and immature " I'm invunerable" type of rider who gets "coaxed" into a litre sportbike by his "buds".

However, in North America, unfortunately with the distances and "attitudes" intrenched in society of "bigger is better", from the land of the "muscle car", having riders go down to a 125cc bike or there abouts is a trifle impractical and unrealistic to have the majority embrace, yet still allow for growth in motorcycle society. I suggest a 500cc limit for all new riders for ONE year of insured, registered riding, IF they've taken the safety course, if not, then that 1 year becomes 2. I cant see some 18 kid thinking hes gonna drag race his buddys R1 if hes on a 500CC ninja; hed be too "cool" to try, as humiliation would be the unavoidable outcome. Even if this "kid" did try and do stupid stuff, he probably is less likely to actually kill himself on the 500cc ninja, and if he does hurt himself, he'll live to tell about it and perhaps, LEARN from it..along with the skills required to avoid what got him into that situation to begin with, hello folks..school of hard knocks here!

Yes, there'll be some naysayers, who claim "big brother" is in the room, I can appreciate that perspective. Not unlike the "anti-smoking" thing in public places we are being pushed to embrace, but being an ex-smoker, as much as I wouldnt like the restrictions placed upon me(when I was smoking), sooner or later, one of those restrictions will just make me "wake up" and stop defending what is going to kill me eventually, and be the "proverbial straw" that "broke the camels back" in getting me to quit for my own health!.  y'know, "If i knew then what I know now" type of thing?.  Besides, in the "Big Picture" some form of restriction like this is not only inevitable as the amount of casualities continue, but simply better for everyone involved, even if "everyone" doesnt know it yet or cant see the merit today. Its not saying you cant ride what you want to, it, just like the "testing" and "age" restriction a getting a "car licence" or "age of legality" when it comes to drinking alcohol, or age of consent; these all come about from a definate need for such arising, i.e considerations of abuse, immaturity, impressionable young minds being suckered into advertising etc. etc.. blah, blah, blah!

SO yes , I voted to limit newbies. and as for those 50 year olds who have been riding for 30 years but never got their licence to begin with, well, a little "humble pie" for 30 years of "defiancy" of the laws that we all have to live with will do them good. :stickpoke:

As for the stupid people?.. well, I think in a civilized society, there ought to be some legislative power that provides opportunity to "get somewhat smarter" and arise from the ignorance of "a chimpanzee intellect", especially if it not only helps the "moron in question", but the other people that otherwise, that "moron" might kill one day doing something hes not prepared to handle i.e 275km/h on a hayabusa down main street trying to evade a police helicopter! :stickpoke:!.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2007, 12:34:02 AM by Snubnose »
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Offline solman

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Re: Limiting cc's to newbies
« Reply #26 on: December 18, 2007, 02:45:04 AM »
Interesting, the yes poll started out weak, but has gained ground. 
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Offline Bob Holland

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Re: Limiting cc's to newbies
« Reply #27 on: December 18, 2007, 09:13:24 AM »

Do I hear a can of worms opening up? :stickpoke:  I personally am trying to be realistic.  That would be like dearming the U.S.  Ain't going to happen...
I think that it is the parent’s responsibility to restrict what their children do, that could be dangerous to them. I would not oppose a mandatory riding school for all new motorcycle riders, but be careful of government restrictions; they could be expanded to affect us all. I do not believe in restrictions of motorcycles, but I do believe in enforcement of speed laws.
If I didn't have a Suzuki, I would have a Kawasaki

Offline mwheat308

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Re: Limiting cc's to newbies
« Reply #28 on: December 18, 2007, 07:06:22 PM »
 I agree with the previous comment on the possiblity of a MANDATORY school for new riders.
 I also agree on REALISTIC speed Limits, unlike what we have at present, due to global BS, and our leftest friends.
 Just my 2c worth.
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Offline Barbarian

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Re: Limiting cc's to newbies
« Reply #29 on: December 18, 2007, 09:05:06 PM »
There are two dueling realities here.

On one side, you've got the complacency of the average citizen combined with a lack of common sense.

On the other, you've got the libertarian who fails to imagine how horrid the world would be if pay-as-you-go personal responsibility was the rule. (Can you say toll roads everywhere? No survivors, no bodies, no crime?)

Because of that, I think the govt should limit HP to new riders, especially when you consider how cheaply anyone can acquire top of the line performance. Just check the forums (maybe not this one) where people waiting for an MSF class are trying to figure out their Gixxer by riding in traffic in a state without helmet laws. The marketplace sure as hell isn't going to stop selling lethal bikes to squids, so it's up to the government to act on behalf of its citizens to do the job.

Politicians are the only people most of us get to hire, eh?
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