Author Topic: Live to Ride: Tell the Alberta Gov. how to keep us alive?  (Read 4269 times)

Offline stormi

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Live to Ride: Tell the Alberta Gov. how to keep us alive?
« on: August 11, 2006, 05:30:22 PM »
Hey All,

A month or so ago, I got a brochure in the mail from Alberta Infrastructure and Transportation.  It mentions a spring safety campain that they did ( I saw nothing about it, other than this brochure) that "stresses the importance that all drivers be aware that they need to be on the look out for motorcyclists and afford them every courtesy"

It then went on to recommend a safety course for anyone that hadn't taken it.  And mentioned that the enclosed brochure had many "useful and life saving tips"

I scanned both sides of it and posted it here:
Side one
Side two

(best to save them, and open them on your computer, cos IE and Firefox both want to resize them to sizes you can't easily read them on the screen.)

Here's the really interesting part:  "Alberta Infrastructure and Transportation is commited to making our roads safer for everyone.  If you have any suggestions on ways we can enhance our campain for next year, we would appreciate hearing from you.  Suggestions and comments can be made to,..."  and it provided a phone number and an email address.

So,.. in the interests of keeping any motorcycle riders,... if you had the chance to tell your government anything, as a motorcyclist, what would it be?
stormi

Dita - 91 Bandit 400 - SOLD
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Offline interfuse

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Live to Ride: Tell the Alberta Gov. how to keep us alive?
« Reply #1 on: August 11, 2006, 11:40:58 PM »
More severe penalties for drunk drivers, especially repeat offenders!
Mike

'91 GSF400
It's more fun to ride a slow bike fast than a fast bike slow.

Offline stormi

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Live to Ride: Tell the Alberta Gov. how to keep us alive?
« Reply #2 on: August 12, 2006, 05:51:40 PM »
Quote
More severe penalties for drunk drivers, especially repeat offenders!


I agree.  I was sort of thinking more specifically how to help them make drivers more aware that we've as much right to be on the road as them, and that they need to watch for us, just as they should be watching for other cars, pedestrians, etc.  Really, I think most of it comes down to attitude.  Both rider and driver.   I have so many people give me dirty looks before I even start the bike up.   Like when I stop at crappy tire to get "car wash" soap for the bikes.  Wait til I cut you off to give me those looks! :rant2:

I have had a lot of situations where people have decided to share my lane with me.  If I move to the left of the lane to increase visibility for the driver to the left of me, I will have some idiot decide they can drive right beside me on the right.  Or worse, PASS me, in my lane.   I've had professional drivers do that.
stormi

Dita - 91 Bandit 400 - SOLD
Blue - 02 Hornet 919 - Perfect Gentleman
02 KTM 200 EXC - Sold
08 VFR800 - Lowered 1.2"
17 KTM RC390
17 Husky TC85 converted to 105

Electrosport Charging System Test - it really works

Offline stormi

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Live to Ride: Tell the Alberta Gov. how to keep us alive?
« Reply #3 on: January 12, 2007, 01:23:04 AM »
Here's what I emailed to them today ( a little later than I would have liked, but better late than never.)

Quote
Hello!  Last year I received a brochure in the mail from the Alberta Infrastructure and Transportation department.  

At the bottom of the letter that accompanied it, was an invitation to provide suggestions or enhancements to campaign to the department.

Ok. :)

I'm attaching some thoughts and suggestions below.  Please let me know if I can clarify any points, or if I can provide more information.

In the communication, it mentions that the spring motorcycle safety campaign "stresses the importance that ALL drivers  be aware that they need to be on the look out for motorcyclists and afford them every courtesy."

While the brochure was well produced and a good start, there's a small problem with this statement.  I talked to about 10 friends, both non-motorcyclists and motorcyclists, and asked if any of them had seen anything that had addressed this importance.  The only people that said they saw anything about this, were the persons that held a new class 6 license.  1/6th of that brochure seemed like it was aimed towards all drivers on the road, but none of the class 5 only drivers I know received it.  

Billboards and commercials would get the point to more driving aged people, than a campaign that seems to have been targetted to motorcyclists alone.

More and more people are buying bikes, for many reasons, including the cost of gas.  The "problem" of motorcyclists is not going to go away.

We need to protect people, by making it public knowledge that "Motorcyclists are OK" and allowed to be on the road, and so to be on the lookout for us.  We are not gang members, we are not going to steal your car, or take candy from your babies.  We ARE your kids' teachers, your company's computer techs, your doctors, your nurses, your lawyers, your friends and your neighbors.

The UK and the southern states (such as Texas) are great places to look for examples of legislation and awareness campaigns with regards to bikes.  They have been dealing with motorcycles for longer than we have, and have learned a great deal of things that we can learn from them.  More than 5.5 Million people hold a bike licence in the UK. Nearly 10% of it's population. In the US, with a population of nearly 300 million people,  just under 9 million hold a motorcycle license.  

I find it interesting that Canada has more than a 14x higher rate of single vehicle motorcycle accidents than the UK.  I think we can learn a great deal from them.  

Speaking of the state of Texas, they have begun some great campaigns in an effort to keep riders alive.

http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/msb/web-cyc.htm
Quote
They mention that "The rider you see on the road may be a teacher, welder, secretary, doctor, etc. Motorcyclists are often your relatives, friends, and neighbors."
        
        And that "A motorcyclist has the use of the same 12 ft of roadway as you do."
        
Just because we tend to use only 4ft of it at a time, does not mean that we will not potentially have need of all of it. Please, don't crowd us, or try to "share" our space. It can mean life and death for us.

The distressing fact is that the number one killer of motorcyclists is other drivers that don't "see" the motorcyclist, and fail to yield right of way.  
For instance, from http://resource4accidents.com/topics/ducatimotorcycleaccidents.html:
Quote
"Motorcycle riders already face an unfair bias from both society and the legal system. Although cyclists are usually blamed by society for the frequent and dangerous accidents motorcycles, accident statistics show that in 80% of all multi-vehicle accidents involving motorcycles, the motorcyclist is not at fault. Many accidents are caused by auto and truck drivers failing to yield to the rider because they do not see them, turning directly in front of a motorcyclist, or pulling out in front of the rider."
       
This number seems high, I have seen it more commonly around 2/3s of the accidents being non-motocyclist at fault.

Until we open up the eyes of people in cars and trucks that we are on the road with, and encourage them to pay attention while wielding a 2 tonne killing machine, we will continue to die.  

Until there is a healthy attitude shift on the parts of anyone with the right to pilot a vehicle on the road, whether motorcyclist or motorist, we will continue to die.  

One thing that I have noticed in the past 2 yrs of street riding is that many of the major risks that motorcyclists face are largely created by factors outside of our control - gravel, inattentive drivers, hyper aggressive drivers, debris, potholes, even drivers that intentionally try to run us down.  Now add to that the fact that many motorcyclists or drivers do not "fully engage" their brains before setting out on the road, or are distracted by their coffee, cell phone, razor, newspaper, makeup, etcand it quickly makes one wonder why we ride at all .  Driving as well as riding are both participator activities.  Neither can be done well if the pilot is not involved fully in the task at hand.

Click on this link for a spectacular example of things we face on the roads: http://www.smoothcurvesracing.com/home.php
This rider happened to have a helmet camera the day of the crash, this was not staged.  The video of the accident can be downloaded from her website.  She survived and after a few months had recovered from most of her injuries.  

Most riders look out for other riders, even when they're in other vehicles.

I have noticed that the public sentiment is largely affected by media.  Rarely do I see stories about bikers doing good.  Did you know that the annual "Santa's anonymous toy run" is the kick off to the christmas season for "Santa's Anonymous" in Edmonton?  Thousands of bikers turn up to ride, and fill trailers full of toys and make monetary donations.

Whenever an accident occurs between a motorcyclist and a motorist, I have noticed that the media tend to focus on the motorcyclist's choice of protection (if they weren't at fault), or their errors (if they were at fault).  How many Alberta motorcyclists were killed or injured last year in multiple vehicle accidents that were not their fault?  And how many multiple vehicle accidents were their fault?

For example: When Ben Roethlisberger had a driver turn left in front of his motorcycle, causing him to crash, the emphasis was on the fact that he was not wearing a helmet (legal in the state that he crashed in), and that he was unlicensed at the time.
Quote
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13279232/
        http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2480830
        http://www.wpxi.com/news/9363870/detail.html
        http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/06/12/AR2006061200660.html
        This article is worded in a way that even makes the accident sound like his fault.
        As does this one:
        http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4155/is_20060620/ai_n16488613
        "Pittsburgh Steelers quarterback Ben Roethlisberger didn't have a valid motorcycle license when he crashed into a woman's car last week, and the driver -- who will be cited for failing to yield -- has received threatening phone calls.
        
        Roethlisberger will be issued $388 in fines and fees for riding without a license and not wearing a helmet, police collision investigator Dan Connolly said Monday. In Pennsylvania, only licensed motorcyclists are allowed to ride without a helmet, provided they meet other restrictions.
        
        Roethlisberger rammed his motorcycle into the woman's car when she was making a left turn in front of him June 12. Both had the green light.
        
        The woman, who will be cited for failing to yield to oncoming traffic and fined $106.50, has received threatening phone calls since the accident, Pittsburgh police chief Dominic Costa said. She filed a police report, and the calls were being investigated."
       
        Clearly the accident was her fault, yet the tone of much of the media attention made it sound like the motorcyclist was at fault - He RAMMED his motorcycle into her car?  Only because it was suddenly somewhere it shouldn't have been, taking away his right of way, and he couldn't avoid it.  This sort of media bias is not just true in US media, but also here as well. (Ben Roethlisberger was easier to search on than most of the low profile accidents that I recall from Alberta in recent years.)  

I constantly hear little blurbs on the news about motorcyclists being hit by drivers, but huge features on Edmonton Police wanting to crack down on loud motorcycles yet ignoring loud cars.  I see features about bikers stunting and being killed, yet few features about cars that are stunting.  

I'm not saying that the bikers doing this are in the right, or that they should be stunting or modifying their exhaust to be louder, but bikers should not be maligned while drivers are left alone.  

Equal treatment, otherwise, bikers become villified, and the general public treats us accordingly.

Education is key, but the responsibility to be educated does not rest solely on the rider.  ALL persons occupying the streets need to be educated.  

I read about Doug Simpson, a journalist in Texas, last year that had the following to say:  

Quote
"Motorcycles. Why are these things street legal? I challenge anyone out there to remember a time they saw a motorcycle that was driving the speed limit and adhering to all traffic laws.
        
        When I see them, they are usually going about 120 mph down I-35E, weaving in and out of lanes like those white lines are just there for show.
        
        Nothing irks me more than sitting in dense 5 p.m. or Friday traffic, only to see a motorcycle driving between the rows of cars, going about 40 mph. I want so badly to open my car door just before they reach me.
        
        I'll never forget the time I was driving down the George Bush around 10 p.m., when all of a sudden scorching down the road were not only about five motorcycles driving erratically, but they were all riding on their back tires. Popping a wheelie while doing 80 mph down a public roadway: stupid.
        
        I remember a few years back, I think after Gary Busey had his bad motorcycle wreck, there was a public service announcement asking motorists to "keep an eye open for motorcyclists," like they are being abused by us car and truck drivers.
        
        I remember telling the TV, "I'll look out for them as soon as they start obeying traffic laws." I'm still waiting, so in my eyes, they are fair game."
       
        This in a state that had legalised lane-splitting.  I wish I could say that he was alone in this sentiment, but in my experience, he's voicing publicly what many are thinking.

Needless to say, this editorial created a great deal of anger in the motorcyclist community, and uproar lead to his dismissal from his post.  However, he had already done a great deal of damage with that editorial.  

I challenge ALL drivers to remember the last time they obeyed all of the rules of the road, including speed limits.  The temptation to go fast on a motorcycle and do "wheelies" is very real.  Some riders are not mature enough to keep it at bay, or take it to the track.  BUT, if you put that same rider in a car with any amount of power, they will abuse the power in the car as well.  Not that the behaviour is right, just that the tool isn't at fault, the pilot's mentality is.  Few motorcyclists however, wish death on other occupants of the road (i.e. "I want so badly to open my car door just before they reach me.") And motorcyclists ARE abused by drivers, as are other drivers these days.  Drivers that are hyper aggressive, and very confrontational.  And they see us as "fair game".  This is the attitude that needs to change.

I have been yelled at, sworn at, and had my life threatened by irrate drivers.  Not for speeding, or wheelies, but for getting in their way, as though the road was solely theirs.  This has not mattered whether I was driving a car, or riding a bike.  I have been tailgated so closely that I have missed turns, because I didn't think that the driver behind me would be able to brake in time if I slowed down, never mind stopped.

The fact is that the riders and drivers that are the most noticable are generally the ones drawing attention to themselves, and generally, are not being lane changed into or turned in front of, because more people are watching their antics.   Consider that even if you're thinking "What an idiot", you still have your eyes on the rider or driver, and know where they are. These types of drivers and riders are more often involved in single vehicle accidents though, as I recall.  The rest of us who are doing the speed limit, and behaving ourselves are typically the ones more likely to be getting hit by unattentive drivers.  

I can think of one particular situation about two summers ago.  A motorcyclist in Edmonton was hit by a car that was making a U turn.  The motorcyclist wasn't speeding, wasn't stunting, but was killed nonetheless.

Here is an open letter to motorists, that the author could not get published in Newspapers, but was able to get published in motorcycle magazines.  Most of the readership that will have read his missive, will have nodded their heads in agreement, not had their eyes opened, as a reader of a newspaper may have.  Unfortunately, his letter missed it's target market. His attempt to bring attention to a problem was thwarted by the media.   http://www.archaicarcane.com/open-letter-to-motorists/ (currently hosted on my own server.)

And a link to a commercial from the UK: http://members.stormi.ca/howclose.mpg (also on my own server)

I can recount stories about drivers taking runs at myself or friends on bikes, while wearing huge grins on their faces, knowing full well that we will stop and yield right of way to them, even laying down our bikes, in order to save our own lives.  
I can tell stories of semi-trailers trying to change lanes into me from a merge lane, while we were stopped waiting for a train.    
I can describe the looks that I get that tell me that people think that I'm the devil incarnate because I choose to ride a bike to my destination.  

I can also tell stories about little old ladies coming up to me and telling me what a pretty bike I have.  
I can describe some of the best people that I have ever met that happen to be bikers.
I can describe times that riders have pulled over to make sure that I was OK when pulled over to the side of the road, while drivers glared at me, even though I wasn't blocking traffic.  
Or of riders that will ride in a pack to increase their visibility, even if they don't know each other, splitting off when their destination leads them away from the pack.  

I cannot however describe the incredible feeling of winding smoothly down a country road, and feeling the power of a motorcycle underneath you, and knowing that you are one with this machine, and in total control, and free.  That's something that has to be experienced.  

And if more people would experience that feeling just once, perhaps they'd understand too why we do what we do, and give us the room to do it.

"4 wheels move the body, but 2 wheels move the soul"
« Last Edit: May 06, 2013, 08:06:48 PM by stormi »
stormi

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Offline JamieK

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« Reply #4 on: January 12, 2007, 01:16:52 PM »
*not directed at Stormi, just a general response to the post*

That's all well and good but in the end its my responsibility to stay alive while riding my motorcycle. I have too little trust in other drivers to believe that any type of PSA is going to save my hide from the drones in cages. Therefore I choose to do nothing in the way of feedback to the government as to my motorcycle safety as it is not their responsibility. I do though highly recommend safety courses for anybody that rides a motorcycle and constantly practice the drills. Complacency on a motorcycle will get you hurt...or worse.

My .02 on the subject....probably all its worth :wink:
Jamie K in Edmonton<br />06 B12S, Full Muzzy, Stage 1 jets, Timing Advancer

Offline stormi

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Live to Ride: Tell the Alberta Gov. how to keep us alive?
« Reply #5 on: January 12, 2007, 03:21:30 PM »
Quote from: "Dreadnought"
*not directed at Stormi, just a general response to the post*

That's all well and good but in the end its my responsibility to stay alive while riding my motorcycle. I have too little trust in other drivers to believe that any type of PSA is going to save my hide from the drones in cages. Therefore I choose to do nothing in the way of feedback to the government as to my motorcycle safety as it is not their responsibility. I do though highly recommend safety courses for anybody that rides a motorcycle and constantly practice the drills. Complacency on a motorcycle will get you hurt...or worse.

My .02 on the subject....probably all its worth :wink:


I totally agree that safety is our responsibility, but at the same time, if people are aware of us, we have a better chance.  For instance, say that a PSA does happen, and that instead of the 25 cars in my immediate vicinity being unaware of my presence, now there are 20 that are unaware, and the other 5 of them are slightly more aware, and start looking for me.  My odds of avoiding just got 20% better.  I'll take the better odds, personally.  

I guess what it means is that drivers need to be aware of us, cos we're not going away.  It's for their good as well as ours.  Less damage to their vehicles, less insurance hikes due to accidents and injury and death payouts, and some of them even have a conscience, and feel bad when they hit and injure or kill someone, even if it's "just a biker".  

Hell, I'd feel better if it stopped just one person from making those damn kamakazie (sp??) "left hand turns from the right lane" things.  
 :wtf: is that all about?
stormi

Dita - 91 Bandit 400 - SOLD
Blue - 02 Hornet 919 - Perfect Gentleman
02 KTM 200 EXC - Sold
08 VFR800 - Lowered 1.2"
17 KTM RC390
17 Husky TC85 converted to 105

Electrosport Charging System Test - it really works

Offline H2RICK

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« Reply #6 on: January 13, 2007, 01:57:55 AM »
Well, if I had the choice of ONE thing that the government could do, I'd vote for banning cellphone use by the driver while the vehicle was in motion. Put on your belt and turn off your phone.....or as the Brits say: Belt on and belt up!! :grin: Pretty simple stuff.
Studies have shown that cellphone use while driving turns a 25 year old's reactions into those of a 50 year old.....just because of distraction. You can imagine what it does to a 50 year old's reactions..... :sad:
And for sure each rider has to ride as if everyone else on the road is either blind, drunk, stoned or terminally stupid. That's just the way it is, folks. :sad:
Ignorance is curable. Stupidity is terminal.
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Offline 06 Greyhound

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« Reply #7 on: January 13, 2007, 11:01:56 PM »
Banning the use of cell phones is one step in the right direction for everyone.  I have also seen people reading books, and magazines while driving, and talking on a cell phone while taking notes, and all at highway speeds. I should also mention the people that eat cereal (with milk (no kidding)) and doing make up.   Most of the people engaged in sexual acts seem to pull off the road.   (I have been commuting for 16 years and have seen more than one would wish)

I would imagine that all of those people were well aware of what they were doing, and simply didn't care that they were putting other people at risk. Telling them that there motorcycles to not care about would not aid the cause a bit.

It occurs to me that what might actually help to increase awareness would be to provide special privileges for motorcycles and scooters.  I believe that both Toronto and Vancouver are considering allowing, motorcycles and scooters to park in the downtown areas for free.  The number of motorcycles on the road that free parking would cause would have to increase awareness.   This would also be a huge step forward in reducing green house gas emissions.
One would also assume that antagonism toward motorcycles would also increase, but there is a cost for everything.:grin:

Offline stormi

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Live to Ride: Tell the Alberta Gov. how to keep us alive?
« Reply #8 on: January 15, 2007, 02:34:34 PM »
Quote from: "H2RICK"

And for sure each rider has to ride as if everyone else on the road is either blind, drunk, stoned or terminally stupid. That's just the way it is, folks. :sad:


I guess where I'm at is that if one person out of the entire lot becomes somewhat more aware, then it was worth the effort.  

Most people will get their wake up call when they hit someone.  It may or may not wake them up.  But occasionally, you run into someone that can learn from other people's mistakes.  I would like to think one or two of them may take a campaign to heart.

Also, when my government says that they want to hear form me, I am more than willing to say something.  I want to encourage them to listen, and so will provide feedback.

If nothing else, when they don't listen, it gives me the right to bitch about it.   :wink:
stormi

Dita - 91 Bandit 400 - SOLD
Blue - 02 Hornet 919 - Perfect Gentleman
02 KTM 200 EXC - Sold
08 VFR800 - Lowered 1.2"
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17 Husky TC85 converted to 105

Electrosport Charging System Test - it really works

Offline stormi

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Live to Ride: Tell the Alberta Gov. how to keep us alive?
« Reply #9 on: January 15, 2007, 02:47:48 PM »
Quote from: "06 Greyhound"
Banning the use of cell phones is one step in the right direction for everyone.  I have also seen people reading books, and magazines while driving, and talking on a cell phone while taking notes, and all at highway speeds. I should also mention the people that eat cereal (with milk (no kidding)) and doing make up.   Most of the people engaged in sexual acts seem to pull off the road.   (I have been commuting for 16 years and have seen more than one would wish)

I would imagine that all of those people were well aware of what they were doing, and simply didn't care that they were putting other people at risk. Telling them that there motorcycles to not care about would not aid the cause a bit.

It occurs to me that what might actually help to increase awareness would be to provide special privileges for motorcycles and scooters.  I believe that both Toronto and Vancouver are considering allowing, motorcycles and scooters to park in the downtown areas for free.  The number of motorcycles on the road that free parking would cause would have to increase awareness.   This would also be a huge step forward in reducing green house gas emissions.
One would also assume that antagonism toward motorcycles would also increase, but there is a cost for everything.:grin:


See and I'm more than a little tired of banning this and that and whatnot.  Half of it is un-enforcable (for instance, cars are coming with bluetooth built right into them for cell phones.), and we're already practically living in a police state when it comes to driving.  Photo Radar, Red light cameras, cops hiding behind bushes, Sheriffs on the highways, etc etc.  

The problem is that there's no way to regulate attitude.  Attitude is the problem in all of this.  Poor driver attitude says that "I'm a superior driver, so I can talk on the phone and read the paper while I'm driving".  Newsflash!  No you're not.  Poor driver attitude says "Those damn motorcycles shouldn't be on the road, it's my road, damn them if they get in my way."  Public conception seems to be that bikers are bad people, therefore, poor driver attitude dictates that it's not a problem to abuse them by running at them and forcing them to give up their right of way, or by otherwise endangering their lives.  Poor driver attitude justifies not paying attention behind the wheel because I'm in a hurry to get to work, and "point a" and "point B" is more important than the distance between "Point A" and "point B" .

I'm not explaining this well, I know.
stormi

Dita - 91 Bandit 400 - SOLD
Blue - 02 Hornet 919 - Perfect Gentleman
02 KTM 200 EXC - Sold
08 VFR800 - Lowered 1.2"
17 KTM RC390
17 Husky TC85 converted to 105

Electrosport Charging System Test - it really works

Offline JamieK

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« Reply #10 on: January 15, 2007, 03:17:08 PM »
Actually you're explaining it very well...by doing so you proved my point :wink:
Jamie K in Edmonton<br />06 B12S, Full Muzzy, Stage 1 jets, Timing Advancer

Offline stormi

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« Reply #11 on: January 15, 2007, 03:40:27 PM »
Quote from: "Dreadnought"
Actually you're explaining it very well...by doing so you proved my point :wink:


LOL! Good thing I never said I disagreed with you then  :grin:
stormi

Dita - 91 Bandit 400 - SOLD
Blue - 02 Hornet 919 - Perfect Gentleman
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17 KTM RC390
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Electrosport Charging System Test - it really works

Offline 06 Greyhound

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« Reply #12 on: January 15, 2007, 10:56:22 PM »
Quote from: "stormi"
Quote from: "Dreadnought"
Actually you're explaining it very well...by doing so you proved my point :wink:


LOL! Good thing I never said I disagreed with you then  :grin:


I think you missed my point.
 I suggested special privileges for motorcycles.  Not banning anything.  Currently parking a motorcycle is the same cost as a minivan.  Providing free parking would cause a sudden and massive increase in the numbers of motorcycles on the road and that would create more awareness.  There are other spin off benefits as parking is at a premium in Calgary and fees are the highest in Canada.  Parking 4 or 5 bikes per space would have a net effect of providing more parking generally.
Parking and related fees are a City matter and not provincial, but provincial surplus funds can off set the parking revenue lost to the bikes and as I said there would be reduction in green house gas emissions and during the peak smog season.

Offline stormi

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« Reply #13 on: January 16, 2007, 05:04:43 PM »
Quote from: "06 Greyhound"

I think you missed my point.
 I suggested special privileges for motorcycles.  Not banning anything.  Currently parking a motorcycle is the same cost as a minivan.  Providing free parking would cause a sudden and massive increase in the numbers of motorcycles on the road and that would create more awareness.  There are other spin off benefits as parking is at a premium in Calgary and fees are the highest in Canada.  Parking 4 or 5 bikes per space would have a net effect of providing more parking generally.
Parking and related fees are a City matter and not provincial, but provincial surplus funds can off set the parking revenue lost to the bikes and as I said there would be reduction in green house gas emissions and during the peak smog season.


Hmm,.. the way I read that first paragraph, I thought you were advocating banning all manner of things.  That's why I mentioned that so much of th elegislation that we already have is un-enforcable.  

I don't know if I would take advantage of the 4 bikes to a stall thing, personally.  Here's why:  Someone knocks one bike over, and all 4 of them go down, potentially damaging a vehicle beside them as well.   Too many people don't respect other people's property, and will knock a bike over.  I had it happen at Riverside Suzuki in St Albert last year.  Luckily there wasn't a bike beside her to hit, or knock down as well.  

I agree that it would be great to reduce polution and other things, but at the same time, anything that will potentially draw negative reaction from the public is doomed to failure. Drivers of those minivans will not like having to pay when the bikes don't.  And some are just malicious enough to knock a bike over just because of that.

My goal with emailing that to Infrastructure, is that the response is usually legislation and banning and laws.  If they are considering PSAs and awarenesss campaigns, I'm all for it.  It's more of a positive spin than the constant "you will not do that" that governments like to push.  For instance, the loud exhaust legislation that the Edmonton Police Chief is trying to push.  The problem is that the legislation is bike specfic, and will lead to more tickets and revenue generation.  It won't reduce noise on the streets, because there are still way more loud trucks and cars.
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