'Group' ride etiquette question

[Bazza]

I say you all hit the throttle at the same time and make him work for the revinue!

[banditoverde]

As a rule we,  the group of good people that the minister of war and I ride with, we all pull over. Now I'm not having a go at cops in general, but, when they have more than 1 person to deal with, the attitude is mostly a lot more lighthearted, and warnings are more frequent than tickets. Now thats gotta be good, cause its not to often that we are being good.

Seems like good logic but from this cop's POV is no bueno.  If I make a stop and I only want one particular car/bike/pedestrian I don't want the whole wagon train to stop with them.  Anyone else who stops is automatically categorized as a possible threat or at least a distraction until they prove themselves to be otherwise (don't think real bad guys don't have contingency plans for getting stopped, they do).  Anyone who stops that isn't invited to the party should expect to be told in no uncertain terms that they are not welcome there.  One cop facing a whole bunch of anyone when he is trying to work is much less likely to be friendly than one cop facing only one person.  I would much rather face a cop who feels in control of the situation than one who is tense because he feels outnumbered.  Tense cops don't give friendly warnings, they invite their friends to come play, and then take care of business when those friends arrive. Its much better to let your buddy handle his business with the cop while you wait a nice comfortable distance away.  Not trying to sound like a hard ass, just putting in my 2cents.

PS: 10 more tickets this month and I get a toaster

PPS: I hate writting tickets and only do it to slow down major speeders (10 - 15 mph over on city streets) or to address the gloriously stupid things some people insist on doing on the streets

PPPS: Bazza, I dig your trailer park avatar, very Canadian of you

[Red01]

Mr. Green, maybe it's different Down Under where no one is supposed to have guns.  

[banditoverde]

Mr. Green, maybe it's different Down Under where no one is supposed to have guns.  

 
   Maybe so  

I really need to get out of the greater metropolitan LA shite box.  Its making me a bit cynical and untrusting of my fellow man

[Red01]

The   and "supposed" were to indicate a little sarcasm. From what I've read, Oz seems to have more gun problems now that they're banned... or at least that's what the NRA is trying to tell us 'Mericuns.

[banditoverde]

The   and "supposed" were to indicate a little sarcasm. From what I've read, Oz seems to have more gun problems now that they're banned... or at least that's what the NRA is trying to tell us 'Mericuns.

You mean the criminals didn't give up their gats? I'm shocked! How uncivilized!  The government really should do something about that.

[aussiebandit]

Red01 wrote:
The  and "supposed" were to indicate a little sarcasm. From what I've read, Oz seems to have more gun problems now that they're banned... or at least that's what the NRA is trying to tell us 'Mericuns.

Don't believe everything you hear.  We don't have more problems, it's just the old problems never actually went away.  Besides we're not anywhere near as 'gun happy' as you blokes.

A mate of mine was in the 'states a couple of years ago (pre 9/11) and was shocked, horrified (shyte scared actually) when he got pulled over by a cop for a traffic infringment.

My mate did exactly the same as he does here.  He undid his seat belt and got out of the car and reached in to his back pocket (to get his licence).  Anyway, to cut a long story short, after being forcably 'placed' on the ground with a, and I quote "F^&*ing big gun" pointed at his head, the 'nice' policeman explained to his new found aussie friend that he best stay in his car with his hands in plain view, otherwise next time he might get shot.

Now, that's not likely to happen to the average person in Oz, unless you live in Vic.  

[Desolation Angel]

...I based most of the tickets I've handed out on honesty. If the person was honest and didn't try to come up with some type of outlandish reason why they did what they did, I'd give em a break 99% of the time. I'm gonna get beat up here but... women and young kids seem to lie A LOT

Okay, I'm off my soapbox.

Interesting to read your post.  I'm 48.  In my teens I made a decision that when I got stopped I'd just be non-commital about it.  In other words, there's no excuse, so I won't make up one and whatever happens, happens.

I get stopped once a year or so ever since those days.  My stops generally go like this, "Sir, the reason I've stopped you is I clocked you going 15 mph over the posted limit.  Are you aware what the speed limit is?"  "Yes, sir."  "Any particular reason you were exceeding the limit?"  "No, sir. I know better."  Then I show my license and insurance card and cross my fingers the guy's not an @sshole on the oh-so-common power trip.  He/she generally comes back with a warning and some good advice.  I got one REAL ticket in the '80's, one in the '90's, and one a couple of months ago.  Cleared them each time by taking the driver's ed course.

I think I've done pretty well.  I know they're doing their job and I don't make it any harder for them.  I haven't had to sue one for getting out of line, yet!

[Red01]

Don't believe everything you hear.  We don't have more problems, it's just the old problems never actually went away.  Besides we're not anywhere near as 'gun happy' as you blokes.

A mate of mine was in the 'states a couple of years ago (pre 9/11) and was shocked, horrified (shyte scared actually) when he got pulled over by a cop for a traffic infringment.

My mate did exactly the same as he does here.  He undid his seat belt and got out of the car and reached in to his back pocket (to get his licence).  Anyway, to cut a long story short, after being forcably 'placed' on the ground with a, and I quote "F^&*ing big gun" pointed at his head, the 'nice' policeman explained to his new found aussie friend that he best stay in his car with his hands in plain view, otherwise next time he might get shot.

Now, that's not likely to happen to the average person in Oz, unless you live in Vic.  

OK, so if the old problems haven't gone away, the gun control rules still haven't worked out so well, have they?  

In my younger days, we used to get out of the car like that, but the officers haven't seemed to like that deal for 20 years or more. Yes, the police carry guns, (usually 9mm, 10mm, or .40 cal these days) and will pull them out if they fell threatened.

[banditoverde]

My mate did exactly the same as he does here.  He undid his seat belt and got out of the car and reached in to his back pocket (to get his licence).  Anyway, to cut a long story short, after being forcably 'placed' on the ground with a, and I quote "F^&*ing big gun" pointed at his head, the 'nice' policeman explained to his new found aussie friend that he best stay in his car with his hands in plain view, otherwise next time he might get shot.

Where in the 'states was your buddy visiting?  It couldn't have been either Arizona, where folks very politely carrys their pistols exposed on their hips, or Florida, where the good citizens carry concealed and are polite because no one is sure who is strapped.  Your use of the adjective "nice" leads me to suspect he was in the city of Los Angeles.  You see, if the cop is an LA County Sheriff's Deputy he will be more inclined to mother f@#k you (not nice) as he beats you bloody, whereas an officer of the LAPD, being highly educated in the finer aspects of interpersonal relations and imbued with a deep sensitivity for the plight of the downtrodden of society will make a point of calling you Sir (nice) as he beats you bloody.

How amazingly and strangely screwed up must we Yanks be to make even the wild and wooly Aussies scratch their heads at us.

Oh well. At least we're not French.

[aussiebandit]

OK, so if the old problems haven't gone away, the gun control rules still haven't worked out so well, have they?

I don't think our problems were that great to start with, certainly not as bad as the 'states, if I can beleive the media, which I probably can't.

The gun laws were changed after a lunatic called Martin Bryant shot a number of people at a Tasmanian tourist destination called Port Arthur.

When I was an instructor in the RAAF one of my students was there when it happened, she was probably one of the luckiest people I've met - she hid under the counter at the Cafe. Unfortunately it's not a happy ending, she committed suicide a couple of years later.

Where in the 'states was your buddy visiting? It couldn't have been either Arizona, where folks very politely carrys their pistols exposed on their hips, or Florida, where the good citizens carry concealed and are polite because no one is sure who is strapped. Your use of the adjective "nice" leads me to suspect he was in the city of Los Angeles. You see, if the cop is an LA County Sheriff's Deputy he will be more inclined to mother f@#k you (not nice) as he beats you bloody, whereas an officer of the LAPD, being highly educated in the finer aspects of interpersonal relations and imbued with a deep sensitivity for the plight of the downtrodden of society will make a point of calling you Sir (nice) as he beats you bloody.

It wasn't LA, close though, they were on they're way to Anaheim to visit DisneyLand.

[B6mick]

As a rule we,  the group of good people that the minister of war and I ride with, we all pull over. Now I'm not having a go at cops in general, but, when they have more than 1 person to deal with, the attitude is mostly a lot more lighthearted, and warnings are more frequent than tickets. Now thats gotta be good, cause its not to often that we are being good.

Seems like good logic but from this cop's POV is no bueno.  If I make a stop and I only want one particular car/bike/pedestrian I don't want the whole wagon train to stop with them.  Anyone else who stops is automatically categorized as a possible threat or at least a distraction until they prove themselves to be otherwise (don't think real bad guys don't have contingency plans for getting stopped, they do).  Anyone who stops that isn't invited to the party should expect to be told in no uncertain terms that they are not welcome there.  One cop facing a whole bunch of anyone when he is trying to work is much less likely to be friendly than one cop facing only one person.  I would much rather face a cop who feels in control of the situation than one who is tense because he feels outnumbered.  Tense cops don't give friendly warnings, they invite their friends to come play, and then take care of business when those friends arrive. Its much better to let your buddy handle his business with the cop while you wait a nice comfortable distance away.  Not trying to sound like a hard ass, just putting in my 2cents.

PS: 10 more tickets this month and I get a toaster

PPS: I hate writting tickets and only do it to slow down major speeders (10 - 15 mph over on city streets) or to address the gloriously stupid things some people insist on doing on the streets

PPPS: Bazza, I dig your trailer park avatar, very Canadian of you

Yes a valid point, and yes we are aware of the problem, we all pull up we all remain on our bikes we all remove our helmets, and we generally pull up 5 odd metres apart. and as I said generally speaking most cops after 2 or 3 minutes are cool and relaxed enough to talk to us as a group, but of course they have to make the first move. Now generally if they gonna do one of us for speeding they really are going to do us all. Now our point is it is better to deal with one cop than have every cop in the district lookiing for us after a APB is transmitted over the police radio, and some gungho young cop pulling a no brainer on some fun corner.

[banditoverde]

It wasn't LA, close though, they were on they're way to Anaheim to visit DisneyLand.

Anaheim PD's unoficial motto is "Come on vacation, Leave on probation"

Of course since they are an Orange County (very republican, substantially wealthy) department they are more likely to use polite words while rendering justice. (can someone make a smily that snickers?)  It amazes me, but I have gotten in trouble plenty of times for using uncivil language and never once been called on the carpet for pointing guns at people.

Thanks for being on the board Mick.  I love hearing what's what in different parts of the world.  Your description of how you do it makes me reconsider my position a bit.  If I had a pack of Bandits do that I'd probably be ok with it as long as everyone kept butt in saddle until I said different.  Now if a pack of OMG (outlaw motorcycle gang) dirt bags did that to me I'd probably have the AR-15 ready to come out of the rack, holler for the world to come help me and bunker down behind my car while trying to keep an eye out for their war wagon. (Ok, I'd do the same thing if it were a pack of Goldwings.  Those guys are scary )

[B6mick]

After all of that, riding over here, seems so much easier relaxed and friendlier even if we are being a little naughty


Hey aussie, the last time we hit gods road, that was only being a little naughty wasn't it.    
Hmm the mouth has gone all dry, and the leg is itching, just wondering how the ZRX will preform on gods road. Guess I'll have to make a return visit to the redback rally next year to find out. Not long now till it see's daylight again. hoping to have it ready for phillip island.

Now back to this thread. again the gun issue, and the banning of guns has raised its ugly head again. Banning law abiding citizens from gun ownership does not lower any gun deaths, or lower any crime rates, period, end of the bloody arguement. Use Aust as evidence. Has the murder rate dropped, No. Has violent crimes rates dropped, No.
Why cause people who still want a gun can still get one from the black market. The losers from gun prohibition, the law abiding citizen, the winners the black market, and crims, cause they know the likelyhood of a houseowner, having a gun to defend himself/ family/property, are very slim. And unfortunatly cops are not sitting on ever street corner, to protect us. Yes I'm pissed at the law, note the words law abiding gun owning citizens. Lowlifes and  crims never used registered guns, and most likely never had a licence to own one. Fact, there is more guns buried in the hills than what got handed in. Why is this a fact, because it is a fact that you couldn't buy for love nor money a GPS or 300 mm pvc plumbing pipe with ends for months prior and after the law took affect.
Why because they the GPS's and the PVC pipe sold out like hotcakes.
Now being a smart cookie, put 2 and 2 together, I come up with there is a hell of a lot of guns buried in them there hills ladie's.

[banditoverde]

Believe it or not it makes my happy to hear that some of you good folks down under had the good sense to hide your guns. I sure hope you remembered to use a good grease to coat and protect your fire sticks. An armed man is a citizen. An unarmed man is a subject. (who ever said that sure was smart).