Author Topic: wankle rotary bikes (Read 4120 times)

zaphoid42 · « **on:** June 21, 2006, 09:36:56 PM »

Someone at work asked me what I thought of a wankle rotary motorcycle. It sounds like a good idea to me. A quick search shows some were made:

http://www.rotaryrecycle.net/re5originalrelease.asp

So, why did they never catch on?

theroamr · « **Reply #1 on:** June 21, 2006, 09:52:29 PM »

You got me, seems very impressive for a 497cc engine.

cb400bill · « **Reply #2 on:** June 21, 2006, 11:17:07 PM »

Why didn't they catch on?

IIRC, expensive when new, not as reliable as traditional engines, poor gas mileage.

Farre · « **Reply #3 on:** June 22, 2006, 05:33:25 AM »

add to that the fast wear on the "chamber seals" (equivalent of the piston rings). In those times they hadn't ofund yet a material suited for this work. Nowadays on the Mazda RX-8 they put some special alloy material on it, seems to work well.

B6mick · « **Reply #4 on:** June 22, 2006, 07:25:17 AM »

Yes plenty of negetives, but shyte you not, a mate of mine raced a RE5 way back then, quick an understatement.
Ok they didn't take off but like most new ideas introduced to motorcycling, it takes sometime for die hards like myself to accept, and yes I'm kicking myself now, cause to own a rotary RE5 or Norton, would now make me quite a wealthy lad.

Desolation Angel · « **Reply #5 on:** June 22, 2006, 09:25:01 AM »

Looks like a good place to drop a pic ...

I think they were sharp. Over a few years that engine would have gotten refined into really something.

I read somewhere once that Mr. Suzuki was so upset about the failure of the RE5 to take off after millions upon millions invested that after the second year of production he had all the remaining bikes crated along with all the tooling and dumped into the Sea Of Japan! I don't know how true that is, so don't quote me.

Shame, though, as it seems like rotaries would be the most sensible way to go with gasoline engines.

Red01 · « **Reply #6 on:** June 22, 2006, 12:11:07 PM »

Most felt the RE5 was just ugly. The early ones had the wonky pod instrument cluster and tail light. The motor's not real attractive for a naked bike. It's a PIA to keep clean with all its nooks and crannies, was heavy >500 lbs for a 500cc bike) and performance wasn't greater than their then current GT750 2-stroke triple. The terrible fuel economy further doomed it. (Perhaps the #1 reason.)

A rotary might be able to make it today if they hid it with bodywork and improved the economy issues.

Desolation Angel · « **Reply #7 on:** June 22, 2006, 12:36:39 PM »

Quote from: Red01

Most felt the RE5 was just ugly. The early ones had the wonky pod instrument cluster and tail light. The motor's not real attractive for a naked bike. It's a PIA to keep clean with all its nooks and crannies, was heavy >500 lbs for a 500cc bike) and performance wasn't greater than their then current GT750 2-stroke triple. The terrible fuel economy further doomed it. (Perhaps the #1 reason.)

A rotary might be able to make it today if they hid it with bodywork and improved the economy issues.

See, now I don't find it ugly. In looking at my pic I see it at least as good looking as the average mid-seventies bike. I didn't mind the Star Trekkian tubular instrument cluster and tail light...most owners converted to the more conventional clusters as seen on this bike. I agree about the performance/weight, but you have to think about how it would have evolved over time. It was a new concept, so I can overlook initial flaws and shortcomings.

As now, eventually that engine would have been painted black and bodywork would have covered it on many models, as you suggested. How many times have good ideas gone "overboard" because people wouldn't adapt?

I almost bought the one in the pic a couple of years ago. It was NOS (new old stock) and had been a display in an Arkansas dealership for decades, IIRC. It went for just a bit too much for me accept.

And, yes, I would have ridden the sh!t out of it!

Here's another good pic of one that still has the tubular taillight, but has had the instrument cluster swapped ...

I remember sitting on one at a dealer when I was 18ish and flipping open that tinted lid to the cluster and thinking, "Oooo, cool!"

Red01 · « **Reply #8 on:** June 22, 2006, 04:47:00 PM »

I remember when I went to Orange County Suzuki in SoCal to buy my '77 GS750... they still had a leftover Trekkie RE5 and were trying real hard to get me to buy it instead of the GS... they had it heavily discounted trying to get it off the floor, but there was no way they were gonna sell me that thing.

In fact, the first Suzuki shop I'd gone into trying to find a GS750 had sold them all out and he offered to sell me a brand new '77 Ducati 860 for the same price as the Suzi - and I turned that down, too. Mostly because I knew I was about to leave SoCal for DC and wanted to ride there and I was afraid of Ducati's reliabilty (which was less than stellar then) and parts availability. I probably would have jumped on it if I knew I was staying in SoCal though.

Vidrazor · « **Reply #9 on:** June 22, 2006, 05:30:10 PM »

The pic of the black one looks really nice. The red one looks nice too, but it must be all the polished aluminum on the black that really makes it stand out. The dry weight is listed at 500 lbs., but that thing looks like it weighs far more than that!

It's always unfortunate when a cool idea isn't given time to mature. Who knows, maybe what goes around may come around (no pun intended

).

Kickstart · « **Reply #10 on:** June 22, 2006, 07:26:26 PM »

Hi

Think the main things that killed them was the reputation for unreliability (bad enough to kill NSU cars). However launching rotaries just when oil prices rocketed was not good timing. Added to which they are pretty awful for emissions (both this and fuel consumption partly down to a lousy combustion chamber shape).

How about a Norton F1?

All the best

Keith

Desolation Angel · « **Reply #11 on:** June 22, 2006, 08:52:04 PM »

Kawasaki and Honda both experimented with the Wankel around 1970 and got as far as not unveiled prototypes. The Yamaha RZ 201 prototype was unveiled in late 1972, but never went into production.

According to A Century Of Japanese Motorcycles by Ganneau and Dumas, "The Wankel, whose potential was very real, would be banished because of its fuel consumption and the difficulties encountered by car makers in meeting emissions standards. For their part, Suzuki would pour a great deal of money into this project, and for this reason would lag well behind the others [Japanese motorcycle manufacturers]...like going over to four-strokes!"

You know, I'm kicking myself now that I didn't splurge on that black RE-5 when I had the chance.

zaphoid42 · « **Reply #12 on:** June 23, 2006, 08:17:19 PM »

The Norton link has a lot of good reading. Thanks for that.

Look at the size of the RE5's radiator. The Nortons had lots of trouble with cooling to from the sounds of things. The RE5 was heavy, but for its day posted good numbers. Nice looking bike to, beam me up.

Just for fun I looked up the miles per gallon of the RX8. It is claimed to get 25 mpg on the highway. Which sounds OK, one reviwer claimed 16 mpg on average, which is not OK.

Makes you wonder if a fuel injection system can clean up the emissions and help out the fuel economy.

kako · « **Reply #13 on:** June 25, 2006, 01:24:14 AM »

omg... my dad owns one and it has been sitting in the garage for 20 years!! i love it. how much are they worth now-a-days? i was almost thinking about takeing it out one day... see how she rides.

amboman · « **Reply #14 on:** June 25, 2006, 02:02:29 PM »

I seen one of these up close and personal at a local rally I went to. Real fine example to. Very straight and tidy. Like the concept but the owner agreed with most of the posts here, "hard to keep in tune, hungry on fuel".

Rally was great, bit of a ritual rally really. It's called the brass monkey rally as it is held here mid winter. This year we travel in about 4-6 degree celseus so not as cold as it has been in past years.