Front end swaps (from the old board)
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jcmjrt
(5/28/04 6:25 pm)
DJSuperFly / Bao are you out there? Bao,
I've heard that you have some great info/pics on changing forks. The original posting has fallen off of the website here and the link that you had posted to a website with pics isn't working now. I tried e-mailing the address that you have listed for yourself but it just got kicked back. If you still have the info/pics, I'd love to get it and I bet we could get it posted permanently by someone so everyone could benefit. Thanks.
[edit]
Bao, aka DJSuperfly was our first member to swap GSXR750 USD forks onto a 400 Bandit.[/edit]
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Red01SuziB12S
(5/28/04 7:11 pm)
Re: DJSuperFly / Bao are you out there? I did find his Bikepics page, it's
right here. There's pics of his B4 with the GSXR750 USD forks on it, but no details... and the e-mail addy he has listed is the same wetwerks one.
Paul W
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Red01SuziB12S
(5/28/04 7:20 pm)
Re: DJSuperFly / Bao are you out there? I remember some of the details about this fork swap biz though...
You can use 1990-1995 GSXR750 front ends on ANY Bandit (250-1200)... it's best if you have the whole front end, triples, tubes, brakes, wheel, fender. clip-ons - everything. Bao used a SRAD (96-99 model) front end. These have a longer steering stem than the pre-SRAD USD fronts, so you have to press out the steering stem from the lower triples of the Bandit and the Gixxer and put the Bandit's stem into the Gixxer's lower triple.
Paul W
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jcmjrt
(5/28/04 9:43 pm)
Fork Change Red01, Thanks for the link to his bike pics. It looks like a good swap. I'm thinking that the suspension and brakes would be much improved with the GSXR 750 forks. I may just start looking for one and see how much it costs. You say it's best if you have the whole front end. Does that include controls, handlebars, headlight, m/c etc., as well? Thanks for the info that you've provided.
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Red01SuziB12S
(5/28/04 11:07 pm)
Re: Fork Change The Gix headlight is in the fairing, and the tubes will be too big to fit the Bandit's headlight clamp on, so you'll have to fab up something in the headlight bracket dept if you want the stock B4 light. Other options would be aftermarket 1/4 fairing w/built in light, or something along the lines of what Bao did.
You'll want as complete a front end as possible to minimize futzing with trying to frankenbike it too much. If you plan to run handlebars instead of clip-ons, then you wouldn't need the clip-ons, obviously. You can put the B4's controls on the Gix clips, but you'll prolly want the Gix front brake master to go along with the bigger calipers.
If you get a complete pre-SRAD GSXR750 front end, it'll be pretty much a matter of removing your stock front end and slapping the GSXR one on... and figuring out mounts for a headlight and clocks.
Paul W
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ManiacCoder
(5/29/04 2:13 am)
Re: Fork Change I like that, definatly adding it to the list of things to do this winter (provided I have a job and a garage).
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KrisB4
(5/29/04 2:31 pm)
Re: DJSuperFly / Bao are you out there? You can use 1990-1995 GSXR750 front ends on ANY Bandit... it's best if you have the whole front end, triples, tubes, brakes, wheel, fender. clip-ons - everything. Bao used a SRAD (96-99 model) front end. These have a longer steering stem than the pre-SRAD USD fronts, so you have to press out the steering stem from the lower triples of the Bandit and the Gixxer and put the Bandit's stem into the Gixxer's lower triple.
It ain't 100% true.
B12 stem is longer than the stem from Busa, and stem from Busa fits older Gixxers but is too short for B12.
I know for 100% as I have Busa's and B12 stems, 750M Gixxer frame and 2002 Gixxer 1000 USDs in my garage - that's for my 7/11 project and for fitting Busa front into my mate's B12.
Newer (SRAD and Busa) stems are shorter and use different bearings (two 30mm ID angular contact ball bearings insted of 25mm and 30mm tapered roller bearings as on Bandits and pre-SRAD gixxers).
But I guess (I'm too lazy to go down to the garage to measure this) the short stem (from any gixxer) should fit to B4 lenghtwise but you would have to use 6906 deep groove ball bearing or 7906 angular contact ball bearing (as the top one as 32906 tapered roller bearing is impossible to find around a world) if you'll get the newer front or simply the same bearing s as in B4 if you get the older forks.
Also bear in mind most of USD's are too short for B12 (2" in case of Busa's forks) so it will affect geometry in serious way or you'll have to make new special top yoke or some extensions to the tubes or weld some sleeves to the original top yoke if you want to keep the original geometry or only a bit sharper.
Best regards,
Kris
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Red01SuziB12S
(5/29/04 3:54 pm)
Re: DJSuperFly / Bao are you out there? I'll take your word for it, since you have the parts right there... but everything I've read from other sites says the Busa stem will fit the B12 - but the fork tubes are too short, as you say. I haven't measured tubes nor stems, but those who claim they have say the pre-SRAD Gixxer forks are compatible with the Bandits, both in stem length and fork length.
I did see some pics a few months ago where some shop, I think in the UK, grafted a 'Busa front end on a B12. I don't recall the details - and can't seem to find the site right now, so I don't recall if they made an offset set of triples for it, or just left it alone with the drastic drop.
Paul W
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rolandogval
(5/29/04 5:31 pm)
Re: DJSuperFly / Bao are you out there? Any model gsxr will work... my forks came from an 1100. If you swap forks, some creative work needs to be done to come up with a new steering lock (I've been avoiding this so far). The GSXR fork has no stops...you can steer clear into the tank.
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KrisB4
(5/29/04 5:45 pm)
Re: DJSuperFly / Bao are you out there? There's 20mm difference in the distance between top of the lower bearing and the bottom of the upper one (140mm on Busa's stem, 160 mm on B12's one).
I don't how these guy made it with the difference and AFAIK the closest forks in terms of tube length are from 1100W and maybe TL-R, all others are shorter.
We decided to make a special upper yoke.
I designed it using the original from B12 and the botom from the Busa, so clocks, handlebars an ignition lock still fit as with OEM one and he can alter the front height.
Unfortunately it took very long to machine it and my mate's B12 got stolen in the meantime.
So now we are left with Busa's front ready to be mouted on some B12 but no B12.
The mate got himself a 1100 gixxer, so there's no need to replace the front except for mounting one-piece handlebars (he's not a fan of clip-ons, and farings).
Best regards,
Kris
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jcmjrt
(5/30/04 10:53 am)
Re: DJSuperFly / Bao are you out there? any model gsxr will work...my forks came from an 1100.
So any 90-95 GSXR regardless of engine size (600/750/1100) has the same front end so that they will all bolt up the same to a 92 Bandit? If that's true, it should make finding a complete front end a little easier. Does anyone have an idea of how much a complete front end should cost? Thanks.
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KrisB4
(5/30/04 11:04 am)
Re: DJSuperFly / Bao are you out there? No they are not the same.
1100's are longer as their clip-ons mount above the top yoke
Besides '90 1100 still has RSU forks not USDs AFAIR.
Regards,
Kris
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Red01SuziB12S
(5/30/04 2:48 pm)
Re: DJSuperFly / Bao are you out there? Also, the Gix6 didn't get USD forks until this year, IIRC.
Paul W
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tankmonkey
(5/30/04 3:11 pm)
Re: DJSuperFly / Bao are you out there? Also, the Gix6 didn't get USD forks until this year, IIRC.
The orignal water-cooled gsx-r 600 (circa 1992) had usd forks...
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JmuRiz
(6/1/04 9:42 pm)
Re: DJSuperFly / Bao are you out there? Last I heard from Bao, he was at the address bhnguyen@wetwerks.org (which is now inop).
I can't find the last e-mail I got from him but I want to say he had his bike stolen, he thinks for the Ohlins shock he had on the back of it... a real shame if it's the case!
Hope everything is cool with him, I bought two parts off of him and he was great to work with.
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Red01SuziB12S
(6/1/04 11:10 pm)
Re: DJSuperFly / Bao are you out there? Hmmm... I didn't find any history of a GSXR600 existing prior to 1997.
No '92 Gix6
listed here anyway. Paul W
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KrisB4
(6/2/04 3:21 am)
Re: Fork Change There was a GSXR600 in 92-93.
Basically it was quite the same as its 750 version from those years (or 93-94 in US).
It shared the engine with the RF600 which AFAIK came later and looked like this:
http://www.bikepics.com/suzuki/gsxr600/92/pics.asp It was a Japan and US version only AFAIR
The best thing is you can easily slot the 1100W engine into the 600 chassis as it's been done here:
http://www.oldskoolsuzuki.info/index.htm?fastcat/articles/haiku_611/index.htm~main Best regards,
Kris
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Red01SuziB12S
(6/2/04 5:39 am)
Re: Fork Change Hey, learn something new!
Strange how the GixSix took a backward step in forks!
From your oldskool link:
I know that FastCat gal!
She knows her Suzukis - and a lot of other bikes, too.
...and you better be a real good rider if you want to keep her tail light in sight!
First time I met her on her 7/11 Gixxer, I got a good laugh out of her license plate frame. It says:
"Does this bike make my butt look fast?"
Paul W
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jcmjrt
(6/2/04 10:04 am)
Re: GSXR Front I've found a complete 92 GSXR 750 front end. He says he has the forks, triple trees, brakes, discs, m/c and wheel. I'm supposed to see the bike/front end this weekend. Any recommendations on what I should check for? Sizes, condition, anything small I've forgotten that would make life easier to put into the Bandit. I'm thinking that I can use my handlebars and controls off the Bandit?
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KrisB4
(6/2/04 12:51 pm)
Re: GSXR front Measure the length of the headstock on the B4, then do the same on the Gixxer.
If the length are the same (+/-5mm) there's a chance the Gixxer stem would fit, the bearings are the same so they will fit (but still you'll have to replace them unless you can harmelss take the B4's bottom one out and drive it onto the Gixxer stem).
If there's a difference in the stems' length you'll need to use the gix's triples and B4's stem.
BUT you can swap the stems ONLY on a hydraulic press.
Using hand press or a big hammer will only ruin the stem.
The stem goes out under a force of ca. 2Tons
You need the press it out from the top, so it goes down in the RWU position.
If you try to do it USD you'll break the yoke (I've heard it breaks at 10Tons).
Be sure that all is straight and true otherwise the stem will be bent and its seat will get crooked.
Support the yoke with some kind of a sleeve or thick ring
There's no need for any heating or something, if all's well apply 2Tons and it slips out, just remember to catch it.
If you use the press to swap the stems leave the bottom bearing, it will go out as the stem goes out.
It won't be damaged so you can re-use it (if its condition is ok of course).
If they are slightly worn replace them, you'll save your work in a future.
Check if the stanchions/legs are not worn, any pitting or chrome loss is a bigger problem with USDs then with RWUs.
Check the fork seals, check if the damping adjusters work - you should feel the difference between full in and full out.
If not, there's no oil inside just some s**t.
Check if you have spacers to set the wheel between the forks right.
The bars won't fit - USD are for clipons unless you get a conversion (special top yoke or add-on with mounts for one-piece handlebar).
The B4 controls might be ok, but you may struggle with clutch & throttle cable routing, also the brake's master cylinder may sit upswept and lower then the banjo bolt which may cause bleeding problem (air in the lines) so master cylinder with remote reservoir may be needed.
Gix controls should be fine.
You can swap the cables into housings no problem I guess, also the wiring plugs should be the same.
Check if the discs aren't warped, they cost a fair amount of $.
I guess these're the main points
Best regards,
Kris
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Red01SuziB12S
(6/2/04 2:40 pm)
Re: GSXR front Kris covered it very well! k:
Optional to the aftermarket GSXR upper triples that are setup for handlebars, some people have modified the stock triples to accept handlebar mounts. I haven't seen one in person, so I can't really say if it's a wise thing to do or not, but if there's enough meant in the OEM upper triple and you have the skills to lay it out and drill it up, or can farm it out to someone who can at reasonable cost savings, why not?
Paul W
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jcmjrt
(6/2/04 7:08 pm)
re: gsxr front First, thanks for all of the info on the front end change. I really appreciate the effort. I'm fairly ignorant and am grateful that you all are sharing your hard earned knowledge. Can I clarify the terms that were used? Is Headstock the portion of the frame that the front end attaches to? If so, do I measure from top to bottom or bottom cup to top cup or...? When talking about the stem is that the piece that attaches to the triples/forks and goes into the frame to attach the front? What piece is the yoke? Would it be easier to just get the clipons and gix controls too if they are available? Where/how do the mirrors usually mount on the gsxr because this is a street bike so I'll need them. As an alternative do you know where I might get info on a USD conversion so that I could use the B4 handlebars? I haven't had discs warp before. Can I check that by using say a carpenters square to lay on the surface and visually inspect for waviness or...? If this is getting too long/complicated for on-line response then please e-mail me at jcmjrt(at)yahoo.com replace (at) with @ If/when I end up doing this conversion, I'll take pics and do a write-up so that others can benefit down the line.
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KrisB4
(6/3/04 3:36 am)
Re: re: gsxr front Headstock the portion of the frame that the front end attaches to?
Yes
so, do I measure from top to bottom or bottom cup to top cup or...?
Doesn't matter as long as you measure both in the same way.
When talking about the stem is that the piece that attaches to the triples/forks and goes into the frame to attach the front?
Yes
What piece is the yoke?
yoke=triple, bottom or top
Would it be easier to just get the clipons and gix controls too if they are available?
Yes
Where/how do the mirrors usually mount on the gsxr because this is a street bike so I'll need them.
To the front fairing
But I'm pretty sure you can find a mirrors you could mount to the gix clip-ons
As an alternative do you know where I might get info on a USD conversion so that I could use the B4 handlebars?
Ask streetfghters in your area, a bike shop, a machine shop, if you are not able to design the solution yourself search in some catalogs, or ebay
I haven't had discs warp before. Can I check that by using say a carpenters square to lay on the surface and visually inspect for waviness or...?
I don't think so, as the limit runout is ca 0.2-0.3mm.
You can either take the donor bike for a ride, or rotate the wheel and check if you can see anything or measure the runout with a dial gauge.
Or dismount the rotors, and lay them on a piece of glass and then measure the gap between the glass and the rotor in at least 5 points.
Best regards,
Kris
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Red01SuziB12S
(6/3/04 5:28 am)
Mirrors with clip-ons But I'm pretty sure you can find a mirrors you could mount to the gix clip-ons
I would recommend the use of bar end mirrors on the clip-ons, especially if you don't have a fairing - or one that you can mount mirrors to. Probably the best thing anyway, a traditional handlebar clamp-on style, if there's room for them to even fit, would likely only give you a view of your shoulders or arms. When I had clubman bars on my RD350 (similar position to clip-ons), I used bar end mirrors and they worked pretty well.
Paul W
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jcmjrt
(6/3/04 9:50 am)
re: gsxr front Red01, Thanks for answering my questions. This is sounding doable if the donor bike is right.
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jcmjrt
(6/6/04 9:21 pm)
re: GSXR 750 Front End KrisB4 and Red01,
You guys have been very helpful so far and I wanted to let you know that I got a 91 GSXR Front end with everything including clipons and controls except for the front fender. I'm sure that I can pick one of those up somewhere. It looks in good condition but I want to polish it up pretty before it becomes part of the bike. I have a few other projects calling my attention at the moment - including riding in this fine weather - but it will become part of my B400 one day. I wouldn't have considered tackling this without the info that you all have provided. Thanks.
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Red01SuziB12S
(6/6/04 11:47 pm)
Re: re: GSXR 750 Front End When you do get around to installing it, take plenty of pics and whip up a how-to thread so we can have one to replace Bao's. I'm sure we can talk Pete into hosting these pics so in case anything happens to Bikepics or some other free source, they won't get lost.
Paul W
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jcmjrt
(6/7/04 10:41 am)
re: GSXR Front End I'd be happy to do that. The digital camera will be working while I am.
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Theif400
(6/7/04 11:08 am)
Re: re: GSXR Front End Hey Paul I have lots of pics from putting the Katana front end on my Bandit I just need some time to sort them and document the process
Chris
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Red01SuziB12S
(6/7/04 6:40 pm)
Re: GSXR Front End We'll be waiting for your pics k:
Paul W
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pitter29
(6/7/04 7:51 pm)
Re: GSXR Front End Yeah - what he ^^^ said!
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Topic: Front End Swaps (Read 37622 times)