Author Topic: Caution to the wind, I'll replace the cam chain myself! (Read 4816 times)

duane · « **on:** February 09, 2007, 09:01:38 PM »

I’m going to replace the cam chain myself. I’ve been successfully adjusting valves for years now and this seems like a logical step forward. But there are some big holes in my understanding of this procedure. For instance:

I purchased the OEM cam chain and was surprised to find it was and endless loop. It had neither a clip or rivet master link. Uh… how do you get that around the crank without splitting the cases? Oh ya, I’m not going to split the cases.

Moving ahead in the procedure, when reinstalling the cams, the number one cylinder needs to be brought to top dead center. How can you tell if it’s TDC compression stroke or TDC intake stroke? The service manual doesn’t say.

Jay, you said “bottom comes off.” Do you mean the oil pan? What does this give you access to when removed?

I’ve never used a fly wheel puller. Will I need to remove the entire clutch basket assembly and pull off that big fly wheel (gear?) that sits behind it? (page3-15 in the manual.)

Geez, I think I’ll need a bunch more tools for this too.

Thanks,
Duane

Red01 · « **Reply #1 on:** February 09, 2007, 09:43:23 PM »

Quote from: "duane"

Moving ahead in the procedure, when reinstalling the cams, the number one cylinder needs to be brought to top dead center. How can you tell if it’s TDC compression stroke or TDC intake stroke? The service manual doesn’t say.

First of all, it would be either compression or exhaust, not intake.

Second, I'd put #1 @ TDC on the compression stroke BEFORE tearing anything apart. Just remember the order of the 4-stroke cycle. Suck, Squeeze, Bang & Blow (Intake, Compression, Power, Exhaust). With the valve cover off, you can watch the valves open and close as you line up the marks if you have any doubts. If it is like the bigger Bandits, it'll be at TDC (#1, on the compression stroke) when the ignition pickup is lined up and the notches on the cams face away from each other. (The bigger Bandit's factory service manual shows you this.)

sclay115 · « **Reply #2 on:** February 10, 2007, 12:31:04 AM »

Never done it on a B4, but my CB350 has/had an endless timing chain. You have to split the cases. I mean, think about it, the crank has to be bolted down by some sort of caps, and you can't slide a cam chain through one. See if you can find an EK chain, as most are the master link type for other bikes, just a suggestion. Or take the plunge and split the cases.

Granted, my CB is old, but it can't be that much different, read the manual, follow the manual, and just don't lose anything. Think about how much you'll know about it when you're done. And you get the satisfaction of knowing you just took a nice look at your transmission.

Steve

duane · « **Reply #3 on:** February 10, 2007, 02:00:27 AM »

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I'd put #1 @ TDC on the compression stroke BEFORE tearing anything apart

Yes I would too, but the chances that something will move seems pretty high and I will want to realign everything when putting it all back together.

Quote

you can watch the valves open and close

I dont want to sound argumenative because I appreciate all input, but I'll want to assure TDC @ compression before the cams go in. What do people do when rebuilding an engine after it's been torn down?

Quote

You have to split the cases.

Jay, do you split the cases or have you used a cam chain with a master link?

interfuse · « **Reply #4 on:** February 10, 2007, 03:32:32 AM »

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Jay, do you split the cases or have you used a cam chain with a master link?

Jay already answered this question, this week...

Search "Need help with cam chain" in the 400 section. It's the fancy red button between "FAQ" and "Memberlist"

Red01 · « **Reply #5 on:** February 10, 2007, 10:12:09 AM »

Quote from: "duane"

Quote
you can watch the valves open and close

I dont want to sound argumenative because I appreciate all input, but I'll want to assure TDC @ compression before the cams go in. What do people do when rebuilding an engine after it's been torn down?

When you're putting the cams back in, you re-install the cams back in the same spot they were in when you took it apart @ TDC. With the crank positioned with #1 @ TDC, the cam installation will determine if you're TDC on compression or exhaust. For the crank TDC is TDC, it's the cams that determine which stroke.

gsxr400 racer · « **Reply #6 on:** February 10, 2007, 12:04:19 PM »

what makes you think you need a cam chain?

duane · « **Reply #7 on:** February 10, 2007, 02:05:43 PM »

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what makes you think you need a cam chain?

That's a good question and I knew someone would ask this. It's noisy, and I mean noisy. It's gone when it's cold and comes back once warm. I've heard other b4's now so I know something is up with mine. I was thinking of posting a wav file of it so there was no question. But, I know it's the cam chain.

Quote

Jay already answered this question, this week...
Search ...

Yes, in fact I included a link to that very post in my original question. I was hoping Jay could clarify what he said.

duane · « **Reply #8 on:** February 10, 2007, 02:17:43 PM »

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For the crank TDC is TDC, it's the cams that determine which stroke.

Ohhhhhhhhh...Got it. That's why the manual doesn't differentiate. Thanks!

gsxr400 racer · « **Reply #9 on:** February 10, 2007, 02:40:32 PM »

Quote from: "duane"

Quote
what makes you think you need a cam chain?

That's a good question and I knew someone would ask this. It's noisy, and I mean noisy. It's gone when it's cold and comes back once warm. I've heard other b4's now so I know something is up with mine. I was thinking of posting a wav file of it so there was no question. But, I know it's the cam chain.
[.

buy one of my billet cam chain tensioners and your problem is fixxed its just a bad tensioner comon

land-warrior.rus · « **Reply #10 on:** February 10, 2007, 03:33:21 PM »

Yep.Jay is probably right.
My cam chain was making very crapy noise.
Sounded perfect when cold, but ones warmed up used to get very noise again.
Got one of the Manual Cam Chain tensioners from Jay, and now is fantastic.Sounds much cleaner and proper.
Mine used to make especialy loud noise at 5,000rpm.
Everything is fab now as i said.Get the manual chain tensioner and see how you get on before starting a biger job...
Cheers

ED · « **Reply #11 on:** February 10, 2007, 10:53:12 PM »

FWIW, I am still trying to find a solution to this problem. I have gotten as far as ordering a new factory chain. The guys at the shop couldn't find an aftermarket link type chain, but they are pretty sure they can buy just the master link from somewhere. They are going to break the new chain and re-rivet it in place. I will let you know how it goes, and what the part number of the master link is. (assuming it exists)
ED

gsxr400 racer · « **Reply #12 on:** February 11, 2007, 05:47:40 PM »

hell of alot cheaper for a cam chain tensioner that goes further than a stock one does the stock one only goes out so far then once it gets old it sorta rocks back and forth till you start hearing cam chain noise some times it sounds fine some times it sounds like there is a bunch of bolts rattling around in there , the most common for this is "ROB" the cbr 600 was notorious for needing cam chains but see that had the same problem the chain really wasnt bad the cam chain tensioners where not going out far enough , easy enough on that to change the chain but at 90 + $ every time it goes bad a 1 time tensioner is the way to go you will end up with almost double the life with haveing a tensioner that will reach the furthest!

Da Bandit · « **Reply #13 on:** February 12, 2007, 12:50:18 AM »

just a quick Q , if I got one of your mannual cam chain tensioners, how often would it need to be set ? Also can I have a price and do you ship to SA ??

Also been havin the same issues as the guys, took of mine , soked it in cleaner for an hour , wiped it clean and buffed it up and put it back in. Much Much betta but from my understanding now it wont stay like that for long ?

matt_400bandit · « **Reply #14 on:** February 12, 2007, 01:14:27 PM »

I had exacly the same problem with my b4 about a weekago dead on 5500rpm it sounded like it was about to go pop, perchaced a new cam chain tentioner now she sounds proper again lol