Author Topic: Dita's throttle cable: Why you ungrateful little .... witch (Read 4199 times)

stormi · « **on:** May 16, 2007, 04:06:35 AM »

So, As I'm on the way home from the muffler shop, Dita starts to act up.

We've been fighting this issue from day one, and it's driving us both around the bend.

There's -no- freeplay on the throttle cable. Zero. Zilch.

This behaviour is identical for two different throttle cables (Her original, and a donor)

The adjustment at the grip is set to maximum freeplay, the adjustment at the carbs is adjusted for maximum freeplay. The cable is so tight that regardless of any routing scheme I can come up with, the pressure of the tank, via the airbox ( i.e. right on top of where it connects to the carbs causes her to race. I'm talking anywhere from 6 to 14,000 rpms at "idle". Additionally, turning the bars to the right makes the engine race.

We've set the idle, and that raises the stop that the throttle linkage rests against, but in order to get her to have some freeplay, we have to turn the idle up -way- too high.

When we got Dita, this wasn't a problem, it only became a problem once the carbs had been off the bike once. ( And the kid that owned her before me didn't know enough to have dealt with a throttle problem, so I know this has to be painfully simple, and stupid. )

Anyone? I'm getting to the point where between this and her phantom battery problem, I'm going to drive her off a bridge...

BrianM · « **Reply #1 on:** May 16, 2007, 10:30:43 AM »

Well, the things that come to immediate mind are all related to the throttle cable:

The bars are bent (or completely different than stock and TALLER), the cable is routed incorrectly (this would seem to be the most obvious since the engine races when you turn one direction) or the carbs aren't seated fully. All would cause the throttle cable to have zero play, and the zero play is exactly why the engine is racing.

Since it's free (minus time), double check the cable routing to the service manual. Works the bars to the right and see what would cause the cable to get tight.

By your description, it sounds like a simple mechanical issue, but there's not really enough info to know what all you've done in order to resolve this.

Good luck.

pmackie · « **Reply #2 on:** May 16, 2007, 12:56:00 PM »

Hi Stormi

I would remove and inspect the throttle twist grip and have a look. Maybe something is preventing it from returning all the way closed. Then, as mentioned, check the cable routing, and make sure it is in stock location and not binding anywhere.

stormi · « **Reply #3 on:** May 16, 2007, 02:38:59 PM »

Quote from: "BrianM"

Well, the things that come to immediate mind are all related to the throttle cable:

The bars are bent (or completely different than stock and TALLER), the cable is routed incorrectly (this would seem to be the most obvious since the engine races when you turn one direction) or the carbs aren't seated fully. All would cause the throttle cable to have zero play, and the zero play is exactly why the engine is racing.

Sorry about that, I forgot to mention, the bars are actually shorter, but ever so slightly wider, not more than about 1/2 " at that point, but they're bars that were taken off her donor bike.

We've tried routing the cable correctly, this doesn't seem to fix the problem. The behaviour I mentioned last night is with the cable routed correctly. The problem looks to me like it's partly at the carb side. I can put it together as per the manual, and put the tank on, and it races.

So,.. when you say the carbs aren't seated fully,.. this is means tight enough to the engine boots?

Quote

Since it's free (minus time), double check the cable routing to the service manual. Works the bars to the right and see what would cause the cable to get tight.

I did this, but now I forget what it was :) I played with the routing 1/2" this way 1/2" that way, I'll go back outside and see if I can remember, but the other half tore half of her apart last night, so it may take me some time to find that position again.

I -think- what I found is that it caused the bend right at the top where it comes off the carbs to shift, and that pulled the cable tighter, and made the engine race.

Quote

By your description, it sounds like a simple mechanical issue, but there's not really enough info to know what all you've done in order to resolve this.

Good luck.

That's exactly what I think it is. I think that it's so simple, we keep missing it. What else can I tell you to help you help me? ;)

stormi · « **Reply #4 on:** May 16, 2007, 02:43:26 PM »

Quote from: "pmackie"

Hi Stormi

I would remove and inspect the throttle twist grip and have a look. Maybe something is preventing it from returning all the way closed. Then, as mentioned, check the cable routing, and make sure it is in stock location and not binding anywhere.

I will do that right away. I know the other half was looking at that last night, and suggested "modifications",.. I said no. No modifications, it must work with the stock setup.

If you grab a handful of throttle, and let go, it does "snap" shut, with a "clack", so something's stopping it, but I'll look really close at it, now that my frustration level is marginally lower.

I do notice that until I seat the throttle cable 100% in the grip that there seems to be all sorts of play, but once it's twisted into position, there's none whatsoever...

I'll go out and take copious pics, and see if anyone can see what I'm (we're) missing.

stormi · « **Reply #5 on:** May 16, 2007, 07:18:31 PM »

Alright, I spent 2.5 hours with her, and here's the verdict,.. it's sort of fixed,.. and I'm not sure why.

I did all of the following:
Re-routed the throttle cable to be under the brake line ( not over like the service manual wants)
Re-routed the Main harness to be over the air box, previously it was under it, and possibly causing crowding issues?
Re-seated the carbs on the engine
Tied the main harness to be away from the throttle cable, so it couldn't interfere at all.
Cursed at her, told her she was going up for sale ( I think that was during the "airbox re-installation" phase.)
Checked the grip

The grip -looked- ok, nothing looked out of place, or burred, worn should in theory give me more play, but nothing even looked worn in the grip.

In fact, the only thing that looks worn is the little "pin" on the carbs that the throttle seems to snap against when you let go of the throttle. ( the one that moves up and down when you adjust the idle speed)

In the end, I have her "down" to a slow climb to about 2400rpm ( from about 1500 rpm) when you turn the bars all the way hard right.

There's still absolutely no slack, but I don't think she's going to blow her engine on startup anymore.

Anyone else have any more ideas?

kako · « **Reply #6 on:** May 16, 2007, 08:06:21 PM »

i seem to remember that you used a pedal bike cable to replace your old one.. if that is true hopefully they gave you brake houseing which is different from derailure houseing which could be causeing the rpms up when you turn the bars. because they are totaly different cable houseings(ones has straight metal where they brake looks like a coil) or maybe that was the choke, just a thought tho. also i personaly think it has something to do with your grip from my experence on working on pedel bikes, but dont know how much thats is transferable to motor bikes. ps. you should sell ur bike... and check your pm/email.

stormi · « **Reply #7 on:** May 16, 2007, 09:05:32 PM »

That was only the choke cable. I wouldn't kludge the throttle, clutch or brake cables, ever. In the end, I got another choke cable as well, so it's back to original, though because there was nothing wrong with that one, I kept it as a spare. Good memory though!

Did you ever get your class 6? I'm still waffling on the idea of selling her, the problem is every time I look at her ( as long as she's not in pieces) I don't want to sell her.

I promise to get to the PM and email, I'm -so- behind, and Dita's temper tantrum didn't help.

JReviere · « **Reply #8 on:** May 16, 2007, 09:51:03 PM »

Stormi,
Wild guess... the outer cable housing is stretched, negating the adjustment. Try this... little chance it will help, but try it... loose the two bolts holding the brake lever and housing in place on the handlebar, slide the housing about 2/3 or maybe a whole CM forward (toward centerline of bike) and reclamp it in place. If the outer housing of the cable assy is indeed pulled taunt, this should release it. Worth a try at least.

JR
Lake Livingston, TX

stormi · « **Reply #9 on:** May 17, 2007, 01:30:41 AM »

Thanks!

I'll give that a shot tomorrow.

For the night, we took them both out ( to gas up before the long weekend rake over the coals) and the official word from the other half is that she's behaving quite well throttle wise, and that she's going to need to be jetted, as we've introduced the dreaded 4K rpm flat spot. *sigh* Time to start searching the forum on the jetting stuff.

Other than that, his only complaint was that she's lost some bottom end. I didn't get to test that the other day on the way home, cos she was revving so high to begin with. So perhaps a new front sprocket is in the works as well.

I'm also going to take her to my car detailing friend this week and see what he can do for her.

kako · « **Reply #10 on:** May 17, 2007, 02:05:50 AM »

what is the state of the newish cable? did u get it off that bike that got parted off in e-town? if so maybe it was warn out to because now that i think about it. it could just be a dirty/ not lubed cable...err but i dont think your suppose to put lube on it. but i think that you could try teflon lube and still be very safe about it. again this theory is from my biking back ground because to get customers that say some gears only work some times.. you replace cables and all it good. just a thought tho. no i have not got it yet. my wrist took a lot longer that i thought to heal. i was in a brace till about x mas. it sucked. i have lots of homework now...but i got some things finishing this weekend so next week or the week after is looking really good to get it. and my sister is going to get that new 125 from honda. so hopefully one day me and her and my dad on his old re5 might be able to go for a ride together.

stormi · « **Reply #11 on:** May 17, 2007, 02:16:55 AM »

Yep,.. it came from the parts bike I got all the other parts from. You can lube cables, and it's encouraged. The cables both seemed identical in length, so I doubt either is in bad condition. Both also pulled freely back and forth when off the bike.

I would really recommend the motorcycle course if you can manage to find one up there. They're great even for people with Dirt experience. My other half has been riding almost since he could walk, and he took it last year, and learned some things.

We were looking at the CBR125 at Scona Cycle this weekend. They look like really fun bikes, they'd be so cool to road race with the AMRA, who actually has a class for them. And it wouldn't hurt as much to lowside a $3400 bike as to lowside Dita,... she's tough to get some of those parts for if you destroy them.

P.S. for anyone wondering, last year Kako contacted me to see if I was looking to sell Dita, since I'd gotten the 919 not long before. I told him it was a possibility by year end, but hadn't, and still haven't decided.

Hey! kako,.. do you ever check the Bargain Finder in the Edmonton area? There are a couple of B4s in town,.. one of the others might come up for sale before Dita's ready to change homes...

kako · « **Reply #12 on:** May 17, 2007, 03:10:00 AM »

what might be freely to you and i might not be so free to a little spring inside the carb or grip. also if the teflon liner inside of the cable is worn you would not feel the friction till you bent the cable. and another thing is that it is a BIG no no to lube throttle cables. because lube attracts dirt( but teflon doesnt) which gums up your cables which in turn gives you a stuck throttle cable. well atlest thats what im told for my car, which is an 84 monte carlo ss, which has a similar cable design to the bandit(non electronic) and from bikes. ya i have been looking out for anything. there was a frz 400 but he wanted to much. there was on in ottawa that i missed by 2 days!! i was very upset because i was down there with my dad and we had an 18 foot trailer that it could have gotten a ride back home on.

stormi · « **Reply #13 on:** May 17, 2007, 03:29:13 AM »

This is part of the reason we lube the cables, to lower the friction. It also displaces water that may get in when we wash or get caught in the rain.

http://forums.banditalley.net/index.php?topic=6485.0

I'll tell you what,.. if I change my mind, you're the first to know,.. and if I hear of anything, I'll also let you know. What are the top 5 bikes in your wish list right now, and what's the price range?

kako · « **Reply #14 on:** May 17, 2007, 10:40:55 AM »

top five... errr cb-1, gsf400, fzr 400. im just looking for a something under 600 thats inline 4 and has more hp then my racing lawntractor. i want to be able to push the bike and not get in tooo much trouble. hahaha. But if your inner teflon houseing is worn though no amount of lube will be able to save your your cable. but after reading more, i see that you guys have a double pull cable.. so friction probly isnt a problem. but still when you lube your choke or throttle get your hands on a teflon tube for safety and it works a lot better because it flows down the cable alot easier that normal cable lube edit. i was looking at around 3ish. being in fort mac tho i can raise that it need be. but im also a student so i dont wanna be spending to much. arnt u a photographer to? what camera brand to you use?