Author Topic: Greg's Bandit 400 Fuel Injection Project...  (Read 146233 times)

Offline greg737

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Re: Greg's Bandit 400 Fuel Injection Project...
« Reply #150 on: November 21, 2014, 12:27:31 AM »
Here's a few more video clips of the project bike:

This first clip is a quick tour of the area in the middle of the Bandit's frame.  I've relocated the battery to the tail of the bike and now this area contains the Rectifier/Regulator, Fuel Pump, Fuel Filter, Starter Solenoid, Rear Brake Reservoir, Coolant Overflow Bottle and a lot of plumbing and wiring.  I've crammed a lot into a small space.
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Video: http://s679.photobucket.com/user/EWflyer/media/GSF400%20vid%204_zpsi46cnrkn.mp4.html?sort=3&o=1
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This next clip is a view of the items that will be hidden beneath the Solo Cowl.  This will include the Battery, Microsquirt ECU, Fuse Box, Main Power Relay, Fuel Pump Relay, Radiator Fan Control Relay and Wideband Oxygen Sensor Controller.
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Video: http://s679.photobucket.com/user/EWflyer/media/GSF400%20vid%203_zpssd2g0rsf.mp4.html?sort=3&o=2
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And this last clip focuses on the Fuel Injection Throttle Bodies which used to be the Bandit's original set of Mikuni BST32 carbs. 

I removed the float bowls and plugged up all the related passageways and plumbing.  I also took out the choke mechanism.  The only things that I kept operational are the throttle plates plus the constant velocity diaphragms and their slides. 

The Kawasaki Ninja ZX-6R secondary fuel injector array is mounted at the bottom where the float bowls used to be.  The tips of the fuel injectors stick up into the throttle bodies at a 45 degree angle, just a few millimeters after the throttle plates.  This arrangement should provide very good fuel atomization and mixing with the intake air.

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Video: http://s679.photobucket.com/user/EWflyer/media/GSF400%20vid%206_zpsvhqtlwir.mp4.html

Offline andrewsw

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Re: Greg's Bandit 400 Fuel Injection Project...
« Reply #151 on: November 21, 2014, 11:50:32 AM »
Keep it coming Greg! Great stuff. Now we need to hear it run ;-)

 :clap: :clap: :clap:

A

Offline bdouvill

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Re: Greg's Bandit 400 Fuel Injection Project...
« Reply #152 on: November 21, 2014, 12:59:20 PM »
Keep it coming Greg! Great stuff. Now we need to hear it run ;-)
Yes, please!!! Show us how smooth it can run  :grin:
Benoit.
Bandit 400 1992, 1st bike.

Offline greg737

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Re: Greg's Bandit 400 Fuel Injection Project...
« Reply #153 on: November 21, 2014, 02:44:03 PM »
Keep it coming Greg! Great stuff. Now we need to hear it run ;-)
Yes, please!!! Show us how smooth it can run  :grin:

Between now and early December there's not going to be much garage-time for me.  But in early December I have a whole week off, the 7th through the 13th, with nothing planned but relaxing and tinkering in the garage.  I expect to get a lot done on the Bandit project during that time.  If the weather cooperates I might even get it out on the road.

The Bandit's first start-up occurred last week after I made the trigger wheel tooth modification.  It was after 9:00pm and since then I've had a couple of my neighbors comment that they noticed I finally got it started.  I probably shouldn't have tried to start it that night but I was kind of excited to see if my modification had solved my problem.

When it started up it was running on fuel settings that were my "best guesses" at what the engine would need to idle.  It turned out that these settings were a bit on the aggressive side and the Bandit was idling at about 2,200 to 2,400 RPM, which is pretty noisy.  I made a couple of quick adjustments to the idle airflow and fueling which got it down below 2,000 RPM.  After I took a couple of quick data-logs and made a couple of timing strobe light examinations of the trigger wheel I shut it down for the night.

I'm pleased with the results of this first (short) successful run.  The engine got up to normal operating temperature and didn't leak any coolant, oil or fuel.  Since then it's been sitting quietly in the garage, continuing not to leak.  This makes me happy.

Looking forward to December...

Offline Squishy

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Re: Greg's Bandit 400 Fuel Injection Project...
« Reply #154 on: November 22, 2014, 12:48:03 PM »
Don't you think putting the battery all the way in the back will hurt handling?
Then again it's a small battery...

Offline greg737

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Re: Greg's Bandit 400 Fuel Injection Project...
« Reply #155 on: November 22, 2014, 01:53:52 PM »
Don't you think putting the battery all the way in the back will hurt handling?
Then again it's a small battery...

Yeah, but the battery's location is just one (relatively minor) factor in the overall "handling" package.

Yes, the battery is now mounted slightly higher in the chassis.  Is this offset by the change in rider-body-position provided by the slightly lower Suburban Machinery handlebars?  I think maybe so.

And yes, the battery is now located aft of its original chassis mounting point, but it is still ahead of the rear wheel's axle which means the relocation's affect on the bike's longitudinal (polar) moment of inertia should be close to nil.

Here's a thought:  In its original configuration the GSF400 probably has a pretty highly forward-biased distribution of mass due to the nature of its inline-4 engine plus the water cooling and the steel trellis frame.  I had to remove the bike's center stand and center stand pivot attachment points due to where the wideband oxygen sensor needed to be mounted (on the last few inches of the header's exhaust collector).  Because these items were at the back end of the package it just might be true that I needed to move some mass aft in the chassis to offset the change.

« Last Edit: November 22, 2014, 03:28:19 PM by greg737 »

Offline greg737

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Re: Greg's Bandit 400 Fuel Injection Project...
« Reply #156 on: November 23, 2014, 04:26:56 PM »
Here's one more video from the various clips I shot a week ago.

This clip is really just the odd bits and leftovers from that day, the stuff that isn't important but possibly interesting to a few of you.
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Video: http://s679.photobucket.com/user/EWflyer/media/GSF400%20vid%207_zpsyd7kyzcn.mp4.html

(Note: I'm still getting over the surprise that the Bandit doesn't have a headlight cutout relay.)

Offline bdouvill

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Re: Greg's Bandit 400 Fuel Injection Project...
« Reply #157 on: November 23, 2014, 05:33:51 PM »
(Note: I'm still getting over the surprise that the Bandit doesn't have a headlight cutout relay.)

Does that fact that you can completely turn off the light help with that matter? I would have believed the relay you are mentionning would be usefull only for more recent motorcycles with automatic light ignition.
Benoit.
Bandit 400 1992, 1st bike.

Offline greg737

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Re: Greg's Bandit 400 Fuel Injection Project...
« Reply #158 on: November 23, 2014, 11:25:43 PM »
(Note: I'm still getting over the surprise that the Bandit doesn't have a headlight cutout relay.)

Does that fact that you can completely turn off the light help with that matter? I would have believed the relay you are mentionning would be usefull only for more recent motorcycles with automatic light ignition.

I have the U.S.A. version of the Bandit 400.  It does not have the switch you're talking about. 

The European versions of the Bandit 400 have a three-position switch on the right-handlebar that controls the lights (OFF, ON and Park, which is represented by a black dot). 

Many years ago in the U.S.A. it was decided by our "nanny-state" government (the U.S. Department of Transportation, "DOT") that motorcycles should have headlights that remain "on" constantly while the vehicle is in operation.

That's why I'm astounded that Suzuki didn't include a headlight relay on the U.S.A. model.
« Last Edit: November 23, 2014, 11:27:34 PM by greg737 »

Offline greg737

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Re: Greg's Bandit 400 Fuel Injection Project...
« Reply #159 on: December 08, 2014, 05:36:06 PM »
Back in the garage today, time to make some progress on the Bandit 400...

A video showing the Bandit hooked up to an auxiliary battery, a Carbtune synchronizer, a timing light and my computer.  Getting set to fine-tune the engine's startup parameters.
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Video: http://s679.photobucket.com/user/EWflyer/media/GSF400%20vid%208_zpsw2gkl1mi.mp4.html?sort=3&o=0
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And here's a very short video of a startup.
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Video: http://s679.photobucket.com/user/EWflyer/media/GSF400%20vid%209_zps14wxyj38.mp4.html?sort=3&o=0
« Last Edit: December 08, 2014, 05:38:37 PM by greg737 »

Offline andrewsw

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Re: Greg's Bandit 400 Fuel Injection Project...
« Reply #160 on: December 08, 2014, 05:48:39 PM »
so much good stuff...

Hey, you should keep track of that cut-up left side cover so that others can use it without having to cut another one up :)

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Offline greg737

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Re: Greg's Bandit 400 Fuel Injection Project...
« Reply #161 on: December 09, 2014, 03:15:54 PM »
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Hey, you should keep track of that cut-up left side cover so that others can use it without having to cut another one up :)
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I'll add it to my growing collection of Bandit parts.  I've got a box of all the things I've removed, improved and/or modified.  Several of the items I've removed have already been sent off to new homes, example: I mailed my Bandit's CDI off to forum-member t6nis in Estonia.
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And now, back to the task...
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Today I realized that I was setting the basic timing wrong!  I'd misinterpreted the timing marks that Suzuki put on the crankcase.  I was accidentally setting the basic ignition timing 15 degrees too advanced.
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Here's a picture of the Bandit 400 crankcase timing marks.  You'll notice that there are 2 "T" marks cast into it and that these two marks are exactly 15 degrees apart (which is the amount of idle BTDC ignition advance commanded by the Bandit 400's CDI per the specification: 15 degrees BTDC at 1,500 RPM). 
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Bear in mind that the trigger wheel spins in a counter-clockwise direction.  This means that the lower "T" mark (the one with the rectangle shape around it) has to be the base timing mark.  It is the mark that the timing strobe light should flash when I've got ZERO ignition advance set into the Microsquirt ECU.

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Here's an even closer shot:
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So I was wrong when I originally determined that 270 degrees was my basic ignition timing angle.  Now I know that 270 + 15 is my number.  Setting the Microsquirt to a basic ignition angle of 285 degrees causes the timing strobe light to flash at the "T" mark in the rectangle.  The "T" in the circle is for 15 degrees BTDC.
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You may have noticed that these pictures (above) are the first ones that show the trigger wheel after I modified it by cutting the tooth-width down from 13mm to 6mm. 

Here's what the trigger wheel looked like before the cut-down...

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And here's what it looks like now...
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Job done!
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« Last Edit: December 09, 2014, 03:18:13 PM by greg737 »

Offline greg737

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Re: Greg's Bandit 400 Fuel Injection Project...
« Reply #162 on: December 09, 2014, 03:26:24 PM »
A short video covering the U.S.A Bandit 400's headlight wiring.  I've added a headlight relay to prevent the headlight from coming on when the bike is "key-switched" to "on" and I've added a headlight modulator for safety.

Video: http://s679.photobucket.com/user/EWflyer/media/GSF400%20vid%2010_zpsejicrigy.mp4.html?sort=3&o=0
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Close-up picture of the U.S.A. Bandit 400's right hand handlebar controls:
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Offline bdouvill

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Re: Greg's Bandit 400 Fuel Injection Project...
« Reply #163 on: December 10, 2014, 04:06:18 AM »
Close-up picture of the U.S.A. Bandit 400's right hand handlebar controls:
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Got it even without the picture ;-)
Funny to notice the whole packaging is the same, only the switch is not present and there's a cover on it. I believe that symplifies the number of references for the manufacturer.

About the timing issue: where you able to adjust the microsquirt settings and get a smoother engine? Even if you did not have a chance to run it yet?
Benoit.
Bandit 400 1992, 1st bike.

Offline greg737

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Re: Greg's Bandit 400 Fuel Injection Project...
« Reply #164 on: December 10, 2014, 11:32:28 AM »
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Got it even without the picture ;-)
Funny to notice the whole packaging is the same, only the switch is not present and there's a cover on it. I believe that symplifies the number of references for the manufacturer.

I really wasn't trying to be pedantic (or to offend), just documenting the headlight issue now that I've modified the system to a configuration that's pleasing to me. 

I agree with you that it appears Suzuki chose the absolute easiest solution to comply with the U.S. government headlight requirement.  I guess the actual number of Bandit 400s bound for the U.S.A. was a very, very small percentage of Suzuki's overall worldwide output for the bike.  This situation didn't warrant a real change to the bike's wiring harness (i.e. adding a headlight relay) which would have made production more expensive.


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About the timing issue: where you able to adjust the microsquirt settings and get a smoother engine? Even if you did not have a chance to run it yet?


Yes.  I haven't ridden the Bandit around yet but I've done a lot of idle-speed tuning and testing.  Now the idle is normal/tunable/controllable.

My mistake with the basic timing setting, using the wrong crankcase timing mark as the basic timing had the effect of making the bike's idle ignition timing 15 degrees too advanced which combined with my use of 10 degrees of additional timing advance (a perfectly normal amount for a basic idle setting) caused the engine to idle too high, about 2,300 RPM.

Using the wrong timing mark gave me 15 degrees of timing advance, but because I was unaware of this situation I was adding another 10 degrees of timing advance as I attempted to tune the Bandit's idle setting.  This was not a good situation: I was thinking I only had 10 degrees of timing advance BTDC (before top dead center) at idle but the real result was a total of 25 degrees of timing advance at idle, which made the bike's idle impossible to tune.

Until I figured out my mistake there was nothing I could do to reduce the idle speed below that level (2,300 RPM).  At first I thought the Bandit's intake tract had an air leak somewhere that was allowing in too much air, which is a common cause of high idle speed accompanied by lean air/fuel ratio readings on the wideband oxygen sensor.  This theory made sense to me (seemed reasonable) because these were the exact symptoms I was seeing. 

In an attempt to diagnose which cylinder(s) were vacuum-leaking I hooked up my Carbtune synchronizer unit to the vacuum port on each Mikuni carb-throttlebody, expecting to see a wide disparity in vacuum between (one or two of) the Bandit's cylinders but instead they were all just about equal and pulling a decent amount of vacuum.  So I knew the cause of my problem had to be something else.

I was sitting in my chair next to the motorcycle, feeling completely lost, when the realization hit me that the second "T" mark on the crankcase (the one with the rectangle around it) was about 15 degrees further around in the direction of engine rotation which meant that it was the correct mark to use for the bike's basic timing setting.  This might seem obvious, as in "how could I have possibly missed the meaning/implication of the fact there are TWO timing marks on the bike's crankcase?", but I'm living proof that it's possible to make this error...

So I added in the 15 degrees to the Microsquirt ECU's basic ignition setting (changing it from 270 degrees to 285 degrees) and I started the bike up.  The Bandit was already warmed up from my previous idle attempts so it settled into a stable idle pretty quickly, but this time it stabilized at 1,600 RPM with a very nice 13.5-to-1 air/fuel ratio showing on the wideband oxygen sensor gauge. 

A quick test with the timing strobe light (temporarily removing the 10 degrees of idle timing advance so the Microsquirt ECU would only be using the basic timing number, 285 degrees) showed that I had the "rectangle T" perfectly timed.

Now I can move forward to riding/tuning.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2014, 11:36:39 AM by greg737 »